Jumpgate Evolution :: Spaceships Types Revealed! (Now with more screen shots)

[Ghambit]

I have a good question:
Can you shut off the goddamned engine trails? (noticed them in the vid)
That's the most unrealistic and annoying feature in this game so far.  It makes my eyes explode.  And if I want to find a ship I should have to find it on radar or look real hard, not just follow the dang trail of light.
Maybe it wouldnt be so bad if they were more realistic, but right now it's literally just like looking at track-marks on underwear... leading you right to the asshole at the controls.

[tmp]

Can you shut off the goddamned engine trails? (noticed them in the vid)
That's the most unrealistic and annoying feature in this game so far.  It makes my eyes explode.  And if I want to find a ship I should have to find it on radar or look real hard, not just follow the dang trail of light.
Maybe it wouldnt be so bad if they were more realistic, but right now it's literally just like looking at track-marks on underwear... leading you right to the asshole at the controls.

Independence War had ship "trails" generated as explicit cgi on your HUD, precisely so you didn't have to "find it on radar or look real hard".

You can consider it the same deal. Computers are there to plot the target trails and make it easier for the asshole at the controls to visualize enemy's movements. They'd have these also (and maybe especially so) in the hardcore sci-fi. Because "realistic" involves trying to make it easier for the assholes on your side of the war, not harder.

[Engels]

so, basically wow in space

[Salamok]

so, basically wow in space

not what I am hoping for out of this game but if it turns out to be "wow in space" i'll play the shit out of it for the next year.

[Mrbloodworth]

so, basically wow in space

Your getting this from what......?

[Engels]

so, basically wow in space

Your getting this from what......?

Cartoony graphics undermining the feel of realism. In this case, the silly contrails from the ships.

I understand the need to rely to some extent on Newtonian physics to have a playble space sim of any sort. Real space physics are just too counterintuitive to the average non-astronaut. That said, the more I look at this game the more it looks like something out of StarCraft. Which is fine. If that's your sort of thing.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm not seeing any cartoony graphics, we talking about the same game here? As for the contrails, I'm trying to think of a good space game that didn't use them.

I guess my point being, Saying "Wow in space" does imply a lot more than simply "I think contrails are cartoony" I wish people would stop using it. I also wish people would stop referring to stylized art direction/treatment as "Cartoony" as well. But that's just me, and i won't happen i am sure.

[Engels]

Its not so much the contrails (although in this game they do seem very exagerated) but the overabundance of gharish colors for everything.

Please understand that this is a very individual preference, and I am in no way 'doomcasting'. Quite the contrary; it appears that my particular pet peve is a minor voice in the wilderness, and that 'vivid' Wow-like colors seem to be perfectly fine for the millions of Wow players.

To me, any game that emphasises 'teh shiney' over a grounded sense of realism detracts from the level of immersion. It can be overdone to the oposite extreme, as in the case of Conan, the King of Brown, but I think there can be a happy medium. The artwork in Eve to me has struck that happy medium between appealing aesthetics without breaking the illusion that the world is real.

Lastly, this has nothing to do with being stylized or not. Smooth artistic production has very little to do with the actual style used, be it a realistic style or the 'cropped' realism of most Asian MMOs.

[kildorn]

I read this as "needs more brown".

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=224

edit: Caldari and Minnies are both "gritty/real" in EVE. Gallente and Amarr are both high fantasy kind of starships. The stuff in jumpgate looks a lot like gallente/amarr designs. Lots of curves and lots of color in the case of gallente.

[Stormwaltz]

Its not so much the contrails (although in this game they do seem very exagerated) but the overabundance of gharish colors for everything.

I agree and disagree. I personally prefer realism (and EVE seems closest to this), but I can see a good case for some overblown visuals. Someone in my guild recently kvetched about how he didn't like space games because they suck at exploration -- by which he meant, discovering new vistas and hidden locations. Space is big, empty, and black. For people like him, you have to dress it up.

[Mrbloodworth]

Engels, while i understand what you are saying, I'm not seeing the over the top use of bright colors you are talking about.

[tmp]

Space is big, empty, and black. For people like him, you have to dress it up.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap060829.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990914.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090222.html

no need to dress up.

[Mrbloodworth]

Space is big, empty, and black. For people like him, you have to dress it up.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap060829.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990914.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090222.html

no need to dress up.

Those are colored.

[tmp]

Those are colored.

Some of them, yes. It's mostly a counter the "it's empty" notion, though.

edit: also, this.

[Engels]

Its not over the top for the style they are aiming for. Not at all. In fact, I'd say it looks perfect.

Stormwaltz, I think the problem is that there's a conflation between the desire to provide interesting visuals and immediately reaching for the day-glo green. Bright colors are great for, you know, mobiles above a baby's crib.  When your MMO ends up looking more like South Park than Vallejo, you have a "problem" with your artistic maturity and possibly the artistic maturity of your audience. Needless to say, this may indeed be calculated, since appealing to refined sensibilities isn't exactly the stuff of moneyhats.

[tmp]

When your MMO ends up looking more like South Park than Vallejo, you have a "problem" with your artistic maturity and possibly the artistic maturity of your audience.

Vallejo as the artistic maturity end of the spectrum..?

[Mrbloodworth]

When your MMO ends up looking more like South Park than Vallejo, you have a "problem" with your artistic maturity and possibly the artistic maturity of your audience.

Vallejo as the artistic maturity end of the spectrum..?

Vallejo, is stylized......

Its not over the top for the style they are aiming for. Not at all. In fact, I'd say it looks perfect.

Uh, you said "So basically Wow in space". This was your baseline, i am saying, i don't see it, not by a long shot. Looks more like Eve than anything else.

[tmp]

Vallejo, is stylized......

Yes, but "mature" somehow just doesn't come to mind given the focus of his artwork...

[Mrbloodworth]

Vallejo, is stylized......

Yes, but "mature" somehow just doesn't come to mind given the focus of his artwork...

No no, i just wanted to get that out the before someone comes in and says its "Cartoony". 

[kildorn]

Really, going through the graphics, it looks like Gallente art on the more anime ships (that blue cap ship) due to curves and colors, and the rest seem very Caldari level functional and drab.

The only "cartoony" one I saw was something being chased that looked like a pod racer out of star wars. Everything else was sane and mature. Can you link what you consider to be WoW in Space?

[Draegan]

People have a problem with "wow in space" because most people say that to easily dismiss the game and say it sucks or it's unoriginal or stupid.

The game really doesn't compare with anything out there really.

[Engels]

Really, going through the graphics, it looks like Gallente art on the more anime ships (that blue cap ship) due to curves and colors, and the rest seem very Caldari level functional and drab.

The only "cartoony" one I saw was something being chased that looked like a pod racer out of star wars. Everything else was sane and mature. Can you link what you consider to be WoW in Space?

Cartoony is too strong a word, and for that I apologise. Its more that the world feels drawn rather than photorealistic. If you look at the first 3 screenshots from the official site I think you'll see what I mean. The ships have too many rounded edges to their metal plates, the shine is just a wee bit off, there's something a bit too stylized polished about it all.

Oh, and me calling it Wow in space should not be taken as a dismissal. It may not be my cup of tea, but if it is, in fact, Wow in space, I'm sure they will bemoan how much they have let me down all the way to the bank.

[Salamok]

I've never seen anything I would call a photo-realistic game that operates in a 3d environment, please be pointing me in that direction.

[Ingmar]

Man until you guys started talking about the artist I totally thought Engels meant Vallejo, CA. 

I mean, I guess that would be pretty realistic...

[Engels]

I've never seen anything I would call a photo-realistic game that operates in a 3d environment, please be pointing me in that direction.

If I point you at Eve, or FEAR, CoD4, or other attempts to stay as close to realism as possible, we'll end up splitting hairs and start arguing if its just too much anti-aliasing that's making my panties bunch. Its highly subjective stuff after a point.

[Salamok]

I've never seen anything I would call a photo-realistic game that operates in a 3d environment, please be pointing me in that direction.

If I point you at Eve, or FEAR, CoD4, or other attempts to stay as close to realism as possible, we'll end up splitting hairs and start arguing if its just too much anti-aliasing that's making my panties bunch. Its highly subjective stuff after a point.

Nah, I wasn't trying to be snarky, it was genuine interest.  I don't have a console and since the kid was born I play/buy about 4 games a year.  I have not tried any of the 3 you mentioned so maybe one will be 1 of my 4 while I wait for jumpgate and SC2.

[Venkman]

Its more that the world feels drawn rather than photorealistic. If you look at the first 3 screenshots from the official site I think you'll see what I mean. The ships have too many rounded edges to their metal plates, the shine is just a wee bit off, there's something a bit too stylized polished about it all.

I'm with Engels on this. My baseline is Eve, which JG:E is not. But I will trade that off for performance and large scale battles any day. I enjoyed Planetside much more than BF:2142.

[Ghambit]

Can you shut off the goddamned engine trails? (noticed them in the vid)
That's the most unrealistic and annoying feature in this game so far.  It makes my eyes explode.  And if I want to find a ship I should have to find it on radar or look real hard, not just follow the dang trail of light.
Maybe it wouldnt be so bad if they were more realistic, but right now it's literally just like looking at track-marks on underwear... leading you right to the asshole at the controls.

Independence War had ship "trails" generated as explicit cgi on your HUD, precisely so you didn't have to "find it on radar or look real hard".

You can consider it the same deal. Computers are there to plot the target trails and make it easier for the asshole at the controls to visualize enemy's movements. They'd have these also (and maybe especially so) in the hardcore sci-fi. Because "realistic" involves trying to make it easier for the assholes on your side of the war, not harder.

If it's a HUD feature that'd be awesome!  I can turn it on/off and it adds to the overall simulationist immersion factor. [complete with a panel button]  (If I look off the HUD, they'll disapper.  Back to the HUD, reappear.)   BUT, it just looks to me like it's just hardwritten into the engine.  You see it regardless of your viewpoint, which would have nothing to do with the HUD.  The best they could do is a switch in the graphical UI that turns it off - which further takes you away from the immersion.

It's not just the trails though, it's just I would've liked to see a real engine exhaust plume instead of some "cartoony" (yes, I said it) technicolor lines.  The exhaust plume exists outside the realm of the HUD, therefore would be nice to see it... along with the "HUD-generated" trails.

Another point, where are the damned thrusters?  I see no actuation or thrusting of any kind.  The ship just moves.  If there's engine exhaust, then there's gotta be thruster exhaust.  Everything on the ships just seem STATIC aside from the engine trails.  It really just deadens everything.  The ships should be livelier, similar to a BSG Viper.  Thrusters should be moving and firing.  Strobes and vents popping, etc.  They want me to love my ship and spend years upgrading and customizing it... yet, all I see is some fancy layering - there's no LIFE to the damned thing.  It's the equivalent of just throwing on a different colored tunic.

(sigh)

[tmp]

If it's a HUD feature that'd be awesome!  I can turn it on/off and it adds to the overall simulationist immersion factor. [complete with a panel button]  (If I look off the HUD, they'll disapper.  Back to the HUD, reappear.)   BUT, it just looks to me like it's just hardwritten into the engine.  You see it regardless of your viewpoint, which would have nothing to do with the HUD.

Yeah, i don't think they're actually put in game as HUD option, but rather was saying that's a way you could perhaps rationalize their presence to yourself. Being able to see them anywhere doesn't bother me either and doesn't really break the 'added cgi' explanation imo -- these aren't aircrafts with 20th century technology on board and it's more than likely they utilize some kind of helmet mounted displays instead, or virtual retinal display if not something even more advanced.

Another point, where are the damned thrusters?

Yeah didn't see them either and they'd be cool. Not even so complicated code-wise to add, either. Oh well.

[Ghambit]

All these "little things" make a big difference when you're asking people to devote lots of their time to your game.   If the ships dont have teh shinay, then wtf motivation will people have to play?  It sure as hell wont be that static, non graphically represented lvl 3 blaster that does +1 dmg to emp shielded cruisers.

Once again, we're in spreadsheet-land... but twitch

I understand they didnt want to animate the ships for performance reasons, but dang... they're sacrificing a lot imo.

[Draegan]

I think you're speculating too much.  Have we seen anything other than newbie ships?

[Mrbloodworth]

I think you're speculating too much.  Have we seen anything other than newbie ships?

Nope.

[Ghambit]

I think you're speculating too much.  Have we seen anything other than newbie ships?

Is there anything more important than newbie ships?

Nope.

And isnt this thing 'sposed to release in like a few months?

[Hindenburg]

Is there anything more important than newbie ships?

The answer to that question depends entirely on how long it takes one to fly advanced shit. If the newbie ship is supposed to last only a couple of hours, then people won't have time to find a lot of things to complain about them, much like the leveling gear in wow, which had horrific design.

[Draegan]

I think you're speculating too much.  Have we seen anything other than newbie ships?

Is there anything more important than newbie ships?

Nope.

And isnt this thing 'sposed to release in like a few months?

At this point I think you should probably just stop looking at Jumpgate thread because it seems you're going to hate everything you see right now or at least find something to hate.