Jumpgate Evolution :: Spaceships Types Revealed! (Now with more screen shots)

[Ingmar]

I'm starting to feel like a dinosaur.  All these games without a reasonable death penalty: AoC, Warhammer Online and now potentially JGE.   

I understand the logic of rewarding rather than punishing players, but PvP for me becomes meaningless if there isn't some risk and I doubt that crafting will be worth squat if there isn't module and ship loss.  I was really hoping that JGE would be like Eve but with people having to actually fly their ships, looks like I'm doomed to be disappointed

Why would you want it to be like Eve - I mean, you could just play Eve right?

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm starting to feel like a dinosaur.  All these games without a reasonable death penalty: AoC, Warhammer Online and now potentially JGE.   

I understand the logic of rewarding rather than punishing players, but PvP for me becomes meaningless if there isn't some risk and I doubt that crafting will be worth squat if there isn't module and ship loss.  I was really hoping that JGE would be like Eve but with people having to actually fly their ships, looks like I'm doomed to be disappointed

It also means that action can happen at a more frequent pace however.

[NiX]

Yeah, as much as I had fun in Eve when stuff happened, the fact that it can take hours to get to it is mind numbing. If no loss of ship/items means more fighting with a joystick, then bring it on.

[Viin]

I'm not sure I can play another MMO with multiple shards after playing EVE. Especially ones with different rule sets. It just pisses me off.

[Trigona]

Why would you want it to be like Eve - I mean, you could just play Eve right?
[/quote]

I think Eve has the best player economy and PvP of any current mmo, however I think older players have an advantage and was looking forweard to a new space sim where everyone was starting on a level playing field.  Plus flying in Eve is very cerebral, I wouldn't mind a X Wing type experience.

[ajax34i]

But you want "meaningful PVP"...  and "fun" right?  and space sim and "level playing field" and "non-cerebral" ...  Was there PVP in X-wing?  Don't remember. 

So, you want good ol' days Joystick space-PVE, plus "meaningful" "non-cerebral" PVP in a "level playing field".  Ok.

[Trigona]

But you want "meaningful PVP"...  and "fun" right?  and space sim and "level playing field" and "non-cerebral" ...  Was there PVP in X-wing?  Don't remember. 

So, you want good ol' days Joystick space-PVE, plus "meaningful" "non-cerebral" PVP in a "level playing field".  Ok.

lol - I guess I deserve that

[Amarr HM]

But you want "meaningful PVP"...  and "fun" right?  and space sim and "level playing field" and "non-cerebral" ...  Was there PVP in X-wing?  Don't remember. 

So, you want good ol' days Joystick space-PVE, plus "meaningful" "non-cerebral" PVP in a "level playing field".  Ok.

lol - I guess I deserve that

I don't think it's too much to ask.

[apocrypha]

Was there PVP in X-wing?

There was PVP in X-Wing vs TIE-Fighter, and it was fucking awesome. It was old-school, clunky, pita to set up and make work well kinda PVP but I had some fun times with some dude called Uther trying to kill each other in TIE-Adv's :)

[Mrbloodworth]

[Ghambit]

Welcome to Earth and Beyond part deux.

[Mrbloodworth]

Welcome to Earth and Beyond Jumpgate part deux.

FIFY

[eldaec]

I think Eve has the best player economy and PvP of any current mmo, however I think older players have an advantage and was looking forweard to a new space sim where everyone was starting on a level playing field. 

Most of the f13 EVE players have been in game for less than six months, and we're killing three times as many ships as we are losing, and the ships we're killing are worth less than a tenth of what we lose. (see the thread in my sig)

EVE levels the battlefield by having combat that rewards not being a drooling retard, and requiring veterans to ante up a *lot* more in game resources to play with the special toys. And the long term vets only really have more choices of which ship to get blown up in. Plus the most special of the special toys require substantial support from ordinary fleet ships anyway.

[Venkman]

Welcome to Earth and Beyond Jumpgate part deux.

FIFY

Foul! Inappropriate use of FIFY, Offense. 10 yards.

The screens look good. I like that each set shows a marked improvement from the prior set. They're still nowhere near Eve, but they're getting closer and looks better than any other space MMO currently live.

When's this go live again?

[Zzulo]

The combat is actually going to be joystick-worthy in this game? Unless they announce some incredible fuck-upery, I am buying this the moment it releases.

[Ghambit]

Welcome to Earth and Beyond Jumpgate part deux.

FIFY

Foul! Inappropriate use of FIFY, Offense. 10 yards.

The screens look good. I like that each set shows a marked improvement from the prior set. They're still nowhere near Eve, but they're getting closer and looks better than any other space MMO currently live.

When's this go live again?

Listed as March 2nd (per Gamestop).
I still say the ships look a helluva lot like ships from EnB.  Then again, I'm sure EnB borrowed a lot from the original Jumpgate. I'm not knockin it, I liked the ship designs in EnB a lot - just needed more customization.

[Venkman]

Ok cool, so soon enough to get a sense of what's actually shipping. I never played EnB so they could have hired all of the EnB artists for all I know and I still couldn't tell

The combat is actually going to be joystick-worthy in this game? Unless they announce some incredible fuck-upery, I am buying this the moment it releases.

That's the intent, yes. Althgouh it is going to depend on your view of "worthy". You could play the first one with a Joystick too.

As an aside, does anyone else still have the exact same joystick they were using 9 years ago? I bought an MS Sidewinder back in, err, '99 I think and for the few games I needed one, it has done a bangup job. Very essence of getting it right the first time imho.

[Draegan]

I don't have the same one since I've moved and lost it and never replaced it.  However if this game is good I'll buy a new one.

[Ghambit]

I've got an old Saitek X36F digital stick and throttle (pretty sure it's about 9 yrs. old).  Best simulator oriented stick and throttle for a long long time IMO.  Modeled after the f16 flight controls, black rubber coated, and more customization than today's similar saiteks.  Why they didnt just keep making the same model is beyond me.  It'll be perfect for this game.  Doesnt feel like a toy at all... very immersive.  Matter of fact, I highly recommend to anyone if they can find one on Ebay to buy it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Welcome to Earth and Beyond Jumpgate part deux.

FIFY

Foul! Inappropriate use of FIFY, Offense. 10 yards.

!! 

[FatuousTwat]

I have a Logitech Wingman Warrior. Hasn't been used in years, and I'm not sure if it will still work.

[Amarr HM]

I think Eve has the best player economy and PvP of any current mmo, however I think older players have an advantage and was looking forweard to a new space sim where everyone was starting on a level playing field. 

Most of the f13 EVE players have been in game for less than six months, and we're killing three times as many ships as we are losing, and the ships we're killing are worth less than a tenth of what we lose. (see the thread in my sig)

EVE levels the battlefield by having combat that rewards not being a drooling retard, and requiring veterans to ante up a *lot* more in game resources to play with the special toys. And the long term vets only really have more choices of which ship to get blown up in. Plus the most special of the special toys require substantial support from ordinary fleet ships anyway.

I'm relatively new to the game, one year playing, and can solo 3-4 year old pilots even when they double up on me example. Two experienced low sec pirates, I know I had gate guns on my side but still no mean feat. The playing field levels out after about 8 months to a year if you train very inline and don't try to fly multiple ships or races. You can only put a certain amouunt of SP into any given ship so after a while everyone has pretty much the same abilities and then moves on to another class.

[Falconeer]

I still say the ships look a helluva lot like ships from EnB.  Then again, I'm sure EnB borrowed a lot from the original Jumpgate. I'm not knockin it, I liked the ship designs in EnB a lot - just needed more customization.

Mmmm don't think so. If I remember correctly the ships in EnB were from the guy who designed ships for the first sacrilegous Star Wars prequel. They boasted a lot about him, back in the days. Too bad they could afford to "buy" only three of his designs.

[Draegan]

I remember beta testing EnB on my trusty 56k modem.  The game was pretty cool to fly around and explore.  Map out the universe etc.  The rest of the game was awful.

[Vinadil]

Perhaps I have a twitchy wrist or I just bought cheap joysticks... but I could never achieve the same precision from a joystick that I could from a mouse/keyboard combo.  I am assuming this game will have the ability to do both?  It would be interesting to try a joystick again... but just remember constant frustration at having the little crosshairs dance all around my intended target.

[Mrbloodworth]

I am assuming this game will have the ability to do both? 

Yes. And more, TrackIR, Matrox full flight pedals and stick. ETC...

Atmospheric and Newtonian flight models as well.

[Ghambit]

Perhaps I have a twitchy wrist or I just bought cheap joysticks... but I could never achieve the same precision from a joystick that I could from a mouse/keyboard combo.  I am assuming this game will have the ability to do both?  It would be interesting to try a joystick again... but just remember constant frustration at having the little crosshairs dance all around my intended target.

I can guarantee you'll be gimping yourself if you think mouse+keyboard will do better than a good joystick-throttle combo in a simulationist type game, especially one with realistic physics and craft with high degrees of control.  Go and play "Descent" (take Dramamine before you do) or "Beyond the Red Line" to illustrate (for sci-fi examples).  FSX or WW2O is another good one (for sims).  Question is how much of a factor it'll be in Jumpgate.  Knowing how care-bear most MMOs are, I doubt JE will be all that difficult and the penalties for mismanaging flight likewise will be near non-existent.  So, I'm sure the line between mouse and joystick will be more blurred.

Yah, you can have Newtonian flight models but if there's no penalty for not flying within those models than players wont use them.  For instance, if your momentum should carry you into a sun than that's what it should do, and you should die.  But JE may have those same physics while simultaneously having no penalty for flying into that Sun.. or perhaps would have an unrealistic braking system that negates intertia altogether; even negating G-forces on the human body... so even if you have it, it doesnt really matter.  If there's autodock, it wont matter.  If you dont need to land on a planet w/o damaging your ship, wont matter.  If hitting your wingman does nothing, wont matter... etc.

So we'll see.

Definitely having a TrackIR is a VAST advantage though, regardless of the control system.

[Mrbloodworth]

[ajax34i]

Those massively-multi-ship battles in the movies are completely idiotic.

They should take a page from the EVE experience and realize that each side will try to focus fire and call primaries.  And the only way to make that tactic ineffective that I can think of is described in the Honor Harrington novels, and is basically "all the ships in your fleet will pool their hit points" (the onboard computers coordinate shields and defenses with the rest of the fleet, so nothing gets through to any individual ship unless you overwhelm the entire fleet's defenses).

Anyway, in the Star Wars movies, the ship captains are complete idiots, picking individual targets like that, and having sub-battles.  It's the equivalent of soldiers being idiots on a battlefield and running into the middle of the enemy formations to have 1vs1's, not as coordinated charge, but individually.

[Ghambit]

Those massively-multi-ship battles in the movies are completely idiotic.

They should take a page from the EVE experience and realize that each side will try to focus fire and call primaries.  And the only way to make that tactic ineffective that I can think of is described in the Honor Harrington novels, and is basically "all the ships in your fleet will pool their hit points" (the onboard computers coordinate shields and defenses with the rest of the fleet, so nothing gets through to any individual ship unless you overwhelm the entire fleet's defenses).

Anyway, in the Star Wars movies, the ship captains are complete idiots, picking individual targets like that, and having sub-battles.  It's the equivalent of soldiers being idiots on a battlefield and running into the middle of the enemy formations to have 1vs1's, not as coordinated charge, but individually.

Welp, if they have collision detection and overlapping shield bubbles, that'd solve that problem.  I know not if they'll have either, but it's safe to say collision will be in the game.  And it's quite possible there will be a shield transporting type ship, so perhaps fleet tactics MAY be relevant.  But, if I recall, the devs were trying moreso to focus on small ship 1v1 type dogfights... which is kinda gay.  Yah, they said there will be a convoy system... but exactly how the ships will interact is unknown to me.  Anyone else know?   Frakkin game is releasing in 3 months supposedly, we should know more than we do now eh?

[Lantyssa]

One-on-one battles are a lot more exciting than pushing a button and letting someone else control your ship as part of a fleet.  Maybe they're interested in letting players fly their own ship.

Since we've gotten an influx of new people I'm seeing the phrase "that's gay" and its varients being used a lot more here.  I let the occasional use slide, but I'm seeing it frequently enough it is starting to irk me.  Can we try to refrain, please?  Using it derogatively... is kinda gay.

[squirrel]

But you want "meaningful PVP"...  and "fun" right?  and space sim and "level playing field" and "non-cerebral" ...  Was there PVP in X-wing?  Don't remember. 

So, you want good ol' days Joystick space-PVE, plus "meaningful" "non-cerebral" PVP in a "level playing field".  Ok.

And the problem here is? I want that too.

Back in the day I played a fair bit of Allegiance and while it wasn't an MMO I don't see how something like it on a grand scale would be bad.

EVE? Meh. I spent a year or so playing it - it's not the droid I'm looking for.

EDIT: Dammit Lantyssa - you are following me! Except before me. So you're consciously preceding me. Or not. Ack. I'm stalking you! Across threads!  That's so gay!

[Nerf]

Those massively-multi-ship battles in the movies are completely idiotic.

They should take a page from the EVE experience and realize that each side will try to focus fire and call primaries.  And the only way to make that tactic ineffective that I can think of is described in the Honor Harrington novels, and is basically "all the ships in your fleet will pool their hit points" (the onboard computers coordinate shields and defenses with the rest of the fleet, so nothing gets through to any individual ship unless you overwhelm the entire fleet's defenses).

Anyway, in the Star Wars movies, the ship captains are complete idiots, picking individual targets like that, and having sub-battles.  It's the equivalent of soldiers being idiots on a battlefield and running into the middle of the enemy formations to have 1vs1's, not as coordinated charge, but individually.

Welp, if they have collision detection and overlapping shield bubbles, that'd solve that problem.  I know not if they'll have either, but it's safe to say collision will be in the game.  And it's quite possible there will be a shield transporting type ship, so perhaps fleet tactics MAY be relevant.  But, if I recall, the devs were trying moreso to focus on small ship 1v1 type dogfights... which is kinda gay.  Yah, they said there will be a convoy system... but exactly how the ships will interact is unknown to me.  Anyone else know?   Frakkin game is releasing in 3 months supposedly, we should know more than we do now eh?

I thought the whole point of joystick combat was that you're not locking targets and everything nails that target.  It's a hell of a lot harder to call primaries when people have to fucking aim.

[Jimbo]

I like the idea of having to aim, but not sure how they will handle all the ideas that could be thrown out there.  If they have a good voice chat, then it will make it easier to call out a target, that or audible hot keys (like Battlefield 2/2142 has that send out a report of something and where it is at & passes it up to the squad leader and commander).  Even modern fighters have guns, short range missiles, & long range missiles, and all have to be tracked onto a target (or targeted from someone else), before lock-on is acquired.

Base it off a carrier battle group and some how incoperate all of the ships (support, supply, offense, defense, etc...) and you might have a blend of EVE/Jumpgate, but then again, it is more fun to fly the fast fighter and pull the trigger, than to pump gas.

[Mrbloodworth]

Those massively-multi-ship battles in the movies are completely idiotic.

You die, you die and go to hell!

They should take a page from the EVE experience and realize that each side will try to focus fire and call primaries.  And the only way to make that tactic ineffective that I can think of is described in the Honor Harrington novels, and is basically "all the ships in your fleet will pool their hit points" (the onboard computers coordinate shields and defenses with the rest of the fleet, so nothing gets through to any individual ship unless you overwhelm the entire fleet's defenses).

Anyway, in the Star Wars movies, the ship captains are complete idiots, picking individual targets like that, and having sub-battles.  It's the equivalent of soldiers being idiots on a battlefield and running into the middle of the enemy formations to have 1vs1's, not as coordinated charge, but individually.

All this stuff is for the players to figure out, and work out, not the game system. Different tactics, different battles, player base will have to figure it out.

If they have a good voice chat

Integrated Dolby, Directional and distance sensitive chat system.