The Elder Scrolls Online

[Nebu]

Siege warfare in this game is fucking good. It's still up in the air about 90 day campaigns and how they can stay competitive. The reason to play this game is the character builder. Love the class/skill system.

I loved the soul system in Rift until they homogenized it.  Perhaps this game would be a way to scratch that itch.  I saw the merits of the PvP system in beta, but still have concerns that balance will be a major issue in the future.  There are a few skill builds that will ultimately dominate pvp and I think that detracts from what interests me.

[Falconeer]

If anything, 90 days at the moment feels like a problem because when a faction is winning big after a few days, and zerging the zone hard, you know very well that no one from the other two factions is gonna log at all. I hope they have some ways to incentivate the losing factions big, but there's a strong risk for some campagins to be active for 10 days and then dead for the other 80. I hope to be wrong.

[Ingmar]

Well, I'm not sure that problem is solvable. I've seen the 'give up and stop RVRing' effect happen everywhere from GW2's 1 week matchups to DAOC's infinitely long matchups. I'm not sure there's a sweet spot to be found.

[shiznitz]

From the outside it is easily solvable.  Change 90 days to something less than 90 days.

[Ingmar]

People will still give up until the reset when they think they can't win, is what I mean. It doesn't matter where you set the days. I would guess longer might actually be better, depending on how they do the scoring.

[Nevermore]

90 days might actually serve as a zerg breaker of sorts in that there's no reason for a zerg for the long stretches of time that one side dominates.  The RvR zone is so huge and there's enough to do in it that small groups can just ignore the keeps and just do some dungeons or quests or shit. 

[Draegan]

Siege warfare in this game is fucking good. It's still up in the air about 90 day campaigns and how they can stay competitive. The reason to play this game is the character builder. Love the class/skill system.

I loved the soul system in Rift until they homogenized it.  Perhaps this game would be a way to scratch that itch.  I saw the merits of the PvP system in beta, but still have concerns that balance will be a major issue in the future.  There are a few skill builds that will ultimately dominate pvp and I think that detracts from what interests me.

What builds are you seeing this with?

[Nebu]

This is an example.

I'm sure that there are others.  While the skill system does a decent job of balancing (i.e. solo builds are often crap for groups), I have my concerns that as the game ages you'll start seeing a few builds being strongly preferred over others.

[Aza]

This is an example.

I'm sure that there are others.  While the skill system does a decent job of balancing (i.e. solo builds are often crap for groups), I have my concerns that as the game ages you'll start seeing a few builds being strongly preferred over others.

This doesn't make sense, the video posted is a guy who was crowned Emperor in pvp (very difficult to do, and only 1 person gets it on the battlefield) and he is insanely buffed due to that. I'm not sure I understand why such poor information is being posted.

I am a fan of the game, but am not sure it's worth the effort to say much about it due to the strange steamroll of poor sentiments on this thread -- mainly stemming the lower levels/early stages of the beta.

[Mithas]

This is an example.

I'm sure that there are others.  While the skill system does a decent job of balancing (i.e. solo builds are often crap for groups), I have my concerns that as the game ages you'll start seeing a few builds being strongly preferred over others.

This doesn't make sense, the video posted is a guy who was crowned Emperor in pvp (very difficult to do, and only 1 person gets it on the battlefield) and he is insanely buffed due to that. I'm not sure I understand why such poor information is being posted.

I am a fan of the game, but am not sure it's worth the effort to say much about it due to the strange steamroll of poor sentiments on this thread -- mainly stemming the lower levels/early stages of the beta.

I think the sentiments have been pretty positive actually. Considering the train wreck I thought it was going to be anyway.

[Aza]

This is an example.

I'm sure that there are others.  While the skill system does a decent job of balancing (i.e. solo builds are often crap for groups), I have my concerns that as the game ages you'll start seeing a few builds being strongly preferred over others.

This doesn't make sense, the video posted is a guy who was crowned Emperor in pvp (very difficult to do, and only 1 person gets it on the battlefield) and he is insanely buffed due to that. I'm not sure I understand why such poor information is being posted.

I am a fan of the game, but am not sure it's worth the effort to say much about it due to the strange steamroll of poor sentiments on this thread -- mainly stemming the lower levels/early stages of the beta.

I think the sentiments have been pretty positive actually. Considering the train wreck I thought it was going to be anyway.

True, I find myself agreeing with the last couple of pages of this thread.

[Draegan]

This is an example.

I'm sure that there are others.  While the skill system does a decent job of balancing (i.e. solo builds are often crap for groups), I have my concerns that as the game ages you'll start seeing a few builds being strongly preferred over others.

This doesn't make sense, the video posted is a guy who was crowned Emperor in pvp (very difficult to do, and only 1 person gets it on the battlefield) and he is insanely buffed due to that. I'm not sure I understand why such poor information is being posted.

I am a fan of the game, but am not sure it's worth the effort to say much about it due to the strange steamroll of poor sentiments on this thread -- mainly stemming the lower levels/early stages of the beta.

I think the sentiments have been pretty positive actually. Considering the train wreck I thought it was going to be anyway.

I also believe he's using the old form of the werewolf skill that allowed you to gain ultimate when you're hit with damage then you couple that with Battle Roar which heals you based on Ultimate spent. It's sense been nerfed. Before, all damage gave you ultimate points. Now that gain is on a 3s internal cooldown. Still great build, not nearly as sustainable.

In any case, a build like that did very little damage compared to a bolt sorc or bowplar or any other bursty build.

[palmer_eldritch]

This game is not letting me log in.

In turns out there is a queue to access the account management page of the official website:



Edit: And like every good MMO queue, the estimated time to wait is going up, not down.

[Miasma]

I just came to complain about the same bullshit.  Another rookie mmo mistake.

I am surprised by how much I am enjoying the actual game but the braindead mistakes they are making really takes away from it.  This is the first mmo in a long time that I actually wake up excited about playing.  Then I'm met with a fucking queue to enter my credit card info for a game that has four more weeks of free time left...

Oh as a bonus mistake they don't even give you an accurate error message when you log in, it says your account info is wrong.  So they are going to put a bunch of people in a tizzy resetting passwords or thinking they've been hacked.

[Miasma]

So while I'm waiting in queue for an asinine reason I might as well write something.

The key to enjoying this game is playing it like the single player version, then incorporating the better parts of what draws people into mmos, mainly the other people.

The Good

• If you play it as an explorer it really does have that open world sandbox feel.  If you just blow through the quest dialogue and only go where you're pointed to it feels like another grindy mmo.
• Any direction you go you will find something.  Be it a quest or treasure chest or dark anchor (they are like rifts).
• Most dungeons don't actually have quests to go there, much like skyrim.  You just get close enough, it shows up on your compass and you can discover it.  They have a little plot or purpose that you can read on scrolls left about to explain the enemy presence there.  Each has a miniboss and a skyshard giving very good reasons to go in even if you don't like exploring.
• The whole world is beautiful.  Even the most remote places have nice little touches and flourishes.  I often just have to stop and look around for a few moments.  These moments usually lead me astray from what I was doing as I go investigate nooks and crannies.
• Combat gets better once you have improved your abilities, unlocking the second weapon bar at level 15 helps a lot.
• The quests are great.  They are well written and varied (for mmos) and make frequent use of npcs, ethical decisions, other dimensions/realities.  Persuade/intimidate options are sometimes used as well.
• I very much like the main and guild quest lines, these are solo only instances with more dialogue.  Some of my friends who don't like dialogue of course find them long and boring.
• Many of the npcs from past quests show up again later and remember the actions you took, for good or bad.
• Well done phasing.  The pros and cons of phasing are a separate issue but I think this game strikes a good balance.  I like seeing that places I have quested through changed as a result.  I haven't yet had problems with grouping and having people not be able to meet each other (but it probably does happen).
• Crafting isn't a dead simple affair but doesn't require you to create sixteen sub recipes to make a sandwich like in eq2.  It's a good enough balance.  There are crafting stations where you can make set pieces buy you have to have done research onto each item you want to craft first.
• Crafting can be done using materials back in your bank.
• It is hard to define why but I feel "drawn in" to this gaming world.  It reminds of how much I enjoyed the better parts of other mmos.
• I have yet to do much pvp but most of the people I know that like pvp are pretty excited about it.  It is like an improved version of DAoC.
• I've only done a couple dungeons but they were pretty good.  Not as carefully laid out and polished as the best WoW dungeons but they were quite enjoyable.  The bosses have mechanics, they aren't all just mindless tank and spank and the trash to get to them is acceptable but in my mind a bit too much.
• The group size is only four and while you can tank or heal it is nothing like as strong as a dedicated role from other mmos.  It's somewhere in between a WoW like rigid role system and a guild wars2 "everyone is basically just dps" system.
• The choice of skill lines and how they interact is fairly deep.  Most seem viable too, any subclass with any weapon can work.  I wouldn't say that any armour type will work depending on what your weapon/class is though.  If not, anyone can wear any armour so just switch.

The bad parts of the game just seem like a bunch of mistakes from people who have never done an mmo before.  Even most long time players could have foreseen problems like these.  I hope they will be fixed over time.

The Bad

• Inventory.  They proudly tout having over six million items in the game, that's not super accurate since they are counting all the possible permutations of various status effects and such.  But you only have sixty bank slots and sixty bag space.  The bank is shared between all alts.  Both can be expanded a few times.  This is the first game since original everquest where I have had to make bank mules.  You get loot all the time which you want to break down, not sell so you need to keep it until you get back to a city.  Every desk and jar you open gives you some sort of item, usually just provisioning mats.  When you break items down they turn into 1-4 other crafting mats.  There are harvest nodes everywhere.  I am drowning in items.
• Very few banker npcs.  For Daggerfall's first real zone there is exactly one banker npc.  You can't even see her because she is surrounded by players at all times.  She has one voiced line that is long and annoying and she spews it every time you talk to her.
• I haven't felt this way but a common complaint is that with all the other people around it doesn't feel like skyrim.  The main plot along with the mages/fighters guild quests are solo instances but if you don't want to see other people in the dungeon you just found you will be out of luck until most players level past the zones.
• It's like they didn't realize there would be gold spammers.  Every mmo that comes out today needs to have a right click option simply called "spam" that files a report and ignores that user account wide.
• I have to change my key mappings and options on every single alt, instead of it just inheriting or being able to import.
• No game wide auction house is just stupid.  There is no defense for this.  It's using the megaserver idea so maybe they just couldn't get it to work with that many users.  I remember guild wars 2 constantly being broken.
• Can't send mail to alts.
• You get more experience and level ups in crafting lines by destroying stuff than creating.  Backwards.
• There are probably too many people per instance of each zone.  If they doubled the number of instances making all of them half as populated that would be about right.
• Pets aren't bound, you have to keep them in you scarce inventory slots.
• Either have a website strong enough to handle the load of everyone suddenly having to give their cc  info or don't make such an arbitrary and stupid demand.

There are other bad points that can be fixed with add ons like a mini map, windows showing bag space, a better quest tracker.

[KallDrexx]

Sounds like I would like it if I wasn't knee deep in a backlog.

[satael]

I'm enjoying some parts of the game like going through dwemer ruins with a npc in tow but most of those moments have very little to do with the mmo side of it (and would work just as well in Skyrim if not better). The pvp side has so far been lacking due to the absence of enemies (with "our side" dominating the map) but that will hopefully change once the pve leveling quiets down a bit.

I still feel like this after putting in some more hours. The quests feel alot better than those in GW2 once you get past the newbie part. As to why no mailing to alts I can understand that since there is no limit on where you can mail from so if you could mail to an alt you'd never really need to worry about inventory space.

I did some aoe-grinding with guildies and while it was faster than other forms of leveling it was kind of boring and I'll stick to questing as long as it feels like fun (once I start skipping the quest texts/voiceacting I know that it is time to move on to grinding instead of ruining the quests if I ever feel like going back to them)

[Falconeer]

I am playing it solo despite having RL friends online at the same time and having bought the game because of them. They want to complete quests and gain levels, and all I want to do is explore every little corner of the map, read every book, open every little chest, get every skyshard, find every little secret and make sure I decoded every single treasure map. In a group the game is less fun because the fighting mechanics are chaotic and the lack of name plates doesn't help. But as a solo game I have to say, it's pretty engaging especially from an explorer perspective. Few things have been more rewarding in a MMORPG than finding an area unmarked on the map with its own quest, its own crafting station for unique set items, and its unique reward. Also, if you are Ebonheart, the Undaunted folks made my day. There's plenty of nice little gems that deserve to be uncovered.

[Signe]

I feel this way exactly, Miasma.  I didn't realise that I couldn't mail to alts and I'm disappointed by that.  I was counting on having some mules to help with inventory.  Bugger.  Everything else you said is spot on.  I have the addons... Wykkyd's stuff, the mini-map, inventory grid, etc., and it helps quite a bit.  I hate Hate HATE the quick starts.  It's fine for consoles but on a PC it's torture.  I need THAT addon NOW!  Other than those points and a few little things, like disappearing helmets, I love the game.  So far.  I'm not so naive to think they won't somehow fuck it over instead of smooth it over.  

I have noticed that since the last patch the camera staggers a bit now and then.  It doesn't affect the fps, which is awesome in this game, it's just a little jump now and then.  I joined a group only once but like you said, it was boring.  They just wanted to blow through everything and I wanted to read the books and look for stuff so I only lasted about 20 minutes but they did grind me out nearly a whole level.  I'll have to go back and do those quests with an alt.  I don't know what to do about a guild.  I need one for slow leveling solo players who just want a guild for extra bank space.    

I'd recommend the game but only if you're patient enough to wait for some improvements and/or addons.  

PS  I agree, Drew.  Explorers will get quite a tingle from this game, and if they fix the little niggling bits... expect orgasms.

[Miasma]

You can use alts for mules but instead of simply mailing to them it is an annoying two step procedure where you put into the bank (which is shared) then log into the alt and withdraw.

What to do you mean by quick start?

I am playing it solo despite having RL friends online at the same time and having bought the game because of them. They want to complete quests and gain levels, and all I want to do is explore every little corner of the map, read every book, open every little chest, get every skyshard, find every little secret and make sure I decoded every single treasure map. In a group the game is less fun because the fighting mechanics are chaotic and the lack of name plates doesn't help. But as a solo game I have to say, it's pretty engaging especially from an explorer perspective. Few things have been more rewarding in a MMORPG than finding an area unmarked on the map with its own quest, its own crafting station for unique set items, and its unique reward. Also, if you are Ebonheart, the Undaunted folks made my day. There's plenty of nice little gems that deserve to be uncovered.

Yes exploring and group play doesn't get along well at all.  Nothing that code can do to change that, you would just need to know someone else who feels the same way.

[Falconeer]

I kind of feel that the monthly fee won't affect me because I should be done with the exploration and the "solo" part of it in about a month. As of now, I don't see myself investing any time in the group end game, and PvP is still a big question mark. I just hope the quality of the zones will stay as high as the ones I have explored so far.

[Miasma]

I don't know if a month will be enough time.  Which reminds me of another thing I like.  Once you cap out and finish your faction's zone you go do the other faction's zones from start to finish on the same character for optional vetern levels.  So I don't have to make two alts to see their content, my main will.

Of course if you want more than one character to be at level fifty plus ten vetern levels that is a tremendous amount of content you now have to redo.  If you're the type of person who doesn't like doing the same content twice make certain the class you are using now is the one you want to keep.

[Zetor]

Gonna post my impressions here as well. I picked this up on a friend's insistence; haven't played any of the betas and did no real research beforehand. Overall I'm satisfied with my purchase with some caveats... if I had to summarize my take in 5 words, it'd be the question "What if Bethesda did TSW?". edit: Though the combat reminds me of AOC, if anything.

I agree with Miasma on most good/bad points. Really, the strongest point of the game is the content... all of it. The zones are freaking huge and full of hidden stuff to explore -- and not GW2 checklist exploring either, though there's some of that via achievements. The main questline feels like I am playing a single-player RPG, and so far I'm enjoying that part as much (or more than) TSW and SWTOR. Some of the main characters are great (seriously, Razum-Dar for president), and their VAs are also pretty good. The quests are quite varied and aren't just focused on typical mmo collect x / kill y stuff (this is in contrast with TSW, which had some strong characters and story, but its quests except for the rare investigations were basically all collect x / kill y). Treasure chest hunting is fun. Dungeons are decent (I wouldn't say as polished as WOW or as complex as TSW, but definitely on par with RIFT and SWTOR). PVP is said to be good, though I'll wait and see.

There are a lot of ugly things, too. Bugs (especially quest bugs that forced me to delete and remake my character), monetization (HOW much do horses cost? Oh, so you're saying I can just buy one in the cash shop of my $60 game that I already pay a sub for? Yeah, screw you too.) and dear god the UI... if it wasn't for mods, I would've broken several keyboards in frustration by now.

(useless addendum: I'm not much of an ES fan at all, even though I played Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim; of these, Skyrim is the only one that I'd still consider playing, and it's pretty far down my list of favorite RPGs. That said, I'll probably spend more time playing this game than Skyrim.)

[Ghambit]

Moar tears dammit!   

[squirrel]

I'm playing this as well with SA folks and have to say I'm really enjoying it, far more than I thought I would. For some reason unlike Rift or GW2 I'm just moseying around questing and gathering and exploring and not feeling any need to level. It does kind of feel like a SP TESs game in a lot of ways. I didn't play beta at all and only picked it up for the Reported DAOC style PvP which I haven't even tried yet. I keep logging in meaning to go PvP and then it's like "oh yeah but those crypts over there I just found and what is on that island and oh look flowers!"

It helps that the combat clicks for me - I like the limited skill layout and there's a nice meaty feel to combat at least for the character I have so far.

I expected to be filled with jaded MMO purchaser regret but I'm not.

[Falconeer]

Quick pros and cons for me so far:

+ Beautiful graphics and awesome performances. The world is really beautiful (at maxed settings).
+ Incredible amount of content (so far). Voices are a nice plus.
+ Explorator heaven. Secrets and achievements are a joy.
+ Character progression and customization. Spending points and cherrypicking skills is fun.
+ Crafting is somewhat really cool.

- Combat is terribly sub-par for 2014.
- RvR sounds nice in theory but still feel just chaotic and just zerg-based. Not sure if everyone being able to "stealth" helps or hurts.
- Inventory management is PURE HELL.

[Fabricated]

To be fair the SA MMO-HMO folks will literally play anything.

[Mithas]

This is not turning out to be the train wreck I thought it would be. Are expectations lowered, or is this actually a decent game?

[Falconeer]

If anything, I would say it's blowing other MMORPGs away content wise. But all I know is about the first 20 levels. Can't say after that. And content only matters if you are not bored to death by the gameplay.

EDIT: That's not true. It blows The Secret World away on quantity of content, but not on quality.

[Paelos]

This is not turning out to be the train wreck I thought it would be. Are expectations lowered, or is this actually a decent game?

It was never going to be a gigantic train wreck in the first month. The people who put up with it are playing it and posting their opinions. The people who didn't aren't playing it at all. I didn't expect anyone who made the commitment to buy the game to bash their own purchase immediately.

[Draegan]

The only way you have an issue with inventory is if you constantly try to open every single fucking thing in the world, and then horde all the crafting mats. Here's a clue: stop opening up everything you see just because.

[Malakili]

Here's a clue: stop opening up everything you see just because.

That's asking a lot.

[Numtini]

The only way you have an issue with inventory is if you constantly try to open every single fucking thing in the world, and then horde all the crafting mats. Here's a clue: stop opening up everything you see just because.

Isn't that what you do in an Elder Scrolls game?

[Surlyboi]

Isn't that what you do in every MMO ever?

[Falconeer]

Hoarding and collecting in this game are features, and they sinergize with crafting. Sadly one important tool is doing a terrible job at supporting it.