The Elder Scrolls Online

[Draegan]

Still going to buy it and treat it as a single player game.

Find a copy of Kingdoms of Amalur: THe Reckoning and save yourself time and money.

[MrHat]

Soo.. TESO to Xbone and PS4 and release date pushed to Spring 2014. 

cross with PC?

[Evildrider]

Soo.. TESO to Xbone and PS4 and release date pushed to Spring 2014. 

cross with PC?

Unclear, or at least I haven't seen anything about same server.  I would assume yes, since if they can do it with Defiance.

[Venkman]

Still going to buy it and treat it as a single player game.

I dunno. At this point, Wildstar looks like a better single player game.

ESO feels like a byproduct of people who make decisions almost entirely based on press releases. They seemingly nixed anything people like about the ES series, and designing as if they started development in 2003 and then spent the following two redesigning as much as they could in response to how much WoW changed things.

They'd make more money building a co-op Skyrim.

But the fight for this IP as an MMO has been going on so long, I guess they had no choice but to make something.

[Ginaz]

Maybe they'll let me play as a giant so I can milk the mammoths and churn it into butter.  From what I've seen so far, that sounds more fun than anything else.

[waffel]

Any chance of this releasing as F2P on PC?

[Mithas]

Any chance of this releasing as F2P on PC?

This game will not succeed with a sub. Not for long anyway.

[Paelos]

This game will not succeed

Agreed.

[Draegan]

I have a feeling that this will crash harder/faster than TOR.

[Mrbloodworth]

if anybody cares.

Just does not seem right. Creatures standing around waiting for you to kill them, then 7 minutes of him standing in one place while users stand in one place swinning 2 feet away from them while the monster does not react.

[amiable]

Sadly this is the first MMORPG my wife is interested in playing since TOR (she loves elder scrolls), so I will mostly likely be wasting at least a few months playing this. 

[Draegan]

Opt for divorce imo.

[Ingmar]

The trebuchet firing in the RVR part of the trailer pretty much ensured I will at least try it to see how it doesn't live up to my RVR needs.

[Mrbloodworth]

Honestly, after seeing the First person game play, it does look like it feels just like the other titles in the series, with some exceptions in the AI especially, things just kind of stand there. I just wonder how much MMO underpinnings it will have. For me personally, the MMO underpinnings, like really shallow quests to fill time, are what have killed me with some some of the newer MMOs that do offer more progressive things. For me it really undercuts the experience for me.

I for one hope that Questing is nearly identical to the rest of the series, and not set up like a typical MMO. Buy this I mean I hope its not fields of mobs standing around blocking travel. It needs to be like Eldar scrolls, with meaningful random encounters instead of a large quantity of shit to kill for nearly no reason other then "leveling" or becouse they are in your way.

I'm not going to hold my breath though, I can see that being a difficult thing to do when everyone is a hero and "the one" in the world.

[Samprimary]

The less "online" this game's play is and the more it mirrors a singleplayer experience, the better it will probably do.

[Threash]

Why does everyone focus on the first person thing? Wow had that, Everquest had that.  Hell, I'm pretty sure most mmos do, but nobody ever uses it because it's a dumb way to play.

[Paelos]

Why does everyone focus on the first person thing? Wow had that, Everquest had that.  Hell, I'm pretty sure most mmos do, but nobody ever uses it because it's a dumb way to play.

Because it's the way most people play the Elder Scrolls games.

[Threash]

But it's basically standard in MMOs already.

[HaemishM]

I want to play MMO's in first person as that was the mode I played EQ in. However, not one MMO since EQ has been playable at all in first person, mostly because they don't show your arms swinging the damn sword. So you have no idea when you attack or don't. So I've played them all in 3rd person. But really, you should experience an "immersive fantasy world" in first person.

[Mrbloodworth]

Wow had that, Everquest had that.  Hell, I'm pretty sure most mmos do

No, not even close.

[DevilsAdvocate25]

I want to play MMO's in first person as that was the mode I played EQ in. However, not one MMO since EQ has been playable at all in first person, mostly because they don't show your arms swinging the damn sword. So you have no idea when you attack or don't. So I've played them all in 3rd person. But really, you should experience an "immersive fantasy world" in first person.

I played EQ in first person. I started out with WOW playing it in first person, but there were camera issues and issues with being too close to mob aggro ranges and then they introduced standing in fire mechanics and, unless you constantly moved the camera around like a crack addled mountain dew swilling insomniac with ADHD, there was no way you could be successful in group/raid play. Easier just to scroll out and use the camera for situational awareness.

[Venkman]

But it's basically standard in MMOs already.

No, not really. Many of them have first person mode, but most aren't played that way. And really, EQ1 was played that way mostly because that's how it launched. But for the last almost-decade, it's mostly been third person, for a variety of reasons from wanting to see the customizations you made to wanting to see the environment behind you during combat.

This is why the ES series feels different.

[Threash]

But it's basically standard in MMOs already.

No, not really. Many of them have first person mode, but most aren't played that way. And really, EQ1 was played that way mostly because that's how it launched. But for the last almost-decade, it's mostly been third person, for a variety of reasons from wanting to see the customizations you made to wanting to see the environment behind you during combat.

This is why the ES series feels different.

That's my point exactly, you can already play first person but you won't because for a large variety of reasons playing in first person sucks.  I seriously doubt you are not going to want to see the customizations you made in TESO, or the environment around you.  What can they possibly do different that won't make first person suck? show your arms? I fail to see how that solves absolutely any of the problems playing an MMO in first person has.

[Phred]

But for the last almost-decade, it's mostly been third person, for a variety of reasons from wanting to see the customizations you made to wanting to see the environment behind you during combat.

I tried going back for the f2p conversion and I'd have to say anyone playing it in 3rd person loves handicapping themselves because EQ in 3rd person is still retardedly awkward and was obviously never tuned to be played that way. Just like an Elder Scrolls game.

[Venkman]

I think they patched that in when I was still playing. Maybe Ykesha era? I seem to recall trying it once and thinking "why"?

That's my point exactly, you can already play first person but you won't because for a large variety of reasons playing in first person sucks.  I seriously doubt you are not going to want to see the customizations you made in TESO, or the environment around you.  What can they possibly do different that won't make first person suck? show your arms? I fail to see how that solves absolutely any of the problems playing an MMO in first person has.

Oh, now I get ya. Well, the odd thing for me is that in the ES series, first person has worked fine for me. So it kinda comes down to whether one jumps from ES to ESO or from MMO to ESO. They claim it'll have both (it may already for all I know), but they designed first person first.

[Rendakor]

First-person camera is the reason I never got into EQ1. I was playing for about 20m after heavy recommendation from some friends, when I got killed by an ant. Except the on-death camera zoomed out and I had like 4 more behind me that I didn't know about. Between that shitty camera and the lag (shitty computer, 56k internet) I uninstalled and went back to MUDs for a few more years.

[pants]

First-person camera is the reason I never got into EQ1.

Funny - for me first-person was one of the big reasons why EQ really grabbed me.  It was done 'right', as distinct from WoW etc, where their first person felt 'wrong' (and no, I dont know what the differences are, I just know one worked and one didn't), and so being in first person made me feel more like I was there.  Monsters killing me from behind felt right, since my char was standing in the forest, and not magically viewing everything from 6 foot behind my shoulder.

So, different strokes etc.  However another fantasy MMO with a good first person would really draw me in.

[Kageru]

First person can be very immersive, and EQ generally moved slower. With pretty distinct audio queues if you were getting suddenly munched.

Not so much in WoW which is faster and there's more tactical elements to track in the end-game.

[Mrbloodworth]

but nobody ever uses it because it's a dumb way to play.

That's because they way MMOs mostly play, is dumb.

I think its quite incomparable to compare Wow's first person to that of ES series or even say, Hexen like dungeon crawlers. I think your being a bit dishonest in your comparison as well. Typical MMO combat does not care about swings and misses, or follow through if you miss and your target sidesteps. People have already given other reasons, such as no hands, misaligned cameras and the immersion that comes with a sort of tunnel vision first person creates.

But you are right, with the way AI, grouping and pathing in your typical MMO is, playing in first person is pointless. But that's because of the greater design of the MMO, not because of the camera view.

You want REAL rouge like activities in a MMO? You can't with orbital cameras. Tab target orbital cam with MMO"RPG" style combat and mob placement, Intentional AI ineptitude, Tab Targeting, is simply not comparable to a RPG built to be played in first person. Especially when one is built on the quantity of encounters, instead of the quality.

[Sky]

I liked EQ in first person. Not just because their third-person camera and mechanics sucked, either. It was quite visceral, and as mentioned, the audio cues with surround sound were pretty good.

The last couple months I played, I did have a second box and used third person camera for the healbot so I could see if something jumped it easier.

edit - and things like doors and halls are now scaled to assume you have a third person camera, the claustrophobia of EQ wouldn't work in a modern mmo that wasn't designed ground-up to account for a first person perspective. Guk wouldn't have been nearly as atmospheric if it weren't for the tight cramped passages, and you need headroom for the camera in a third-person perspective.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yep, orbital cams partly lead to the "epic scale" of areas.

[apocrypha]

Demons/Dark Souls would not be good with a 1st person camera. And they are the absolute embodiment of the type of combat you're describing.

The more challenging you make the combat (i.e. not tab-targetting WoW-esque MMO combat) the more a 1st person viewpoint is a limitation in my opinion. Playing a game through a fixed viewpoint is nothing like how we see in the real world. Our vision is nearly 180 degrees but with large variation in fidelity across that range. We're very sensitive to visual and audible cues that could indicate things outside our direct field of quality vision, which is just not the case in a video game.

I hated the lack of a 3rd person view in MWO. It was exacerbated by both poor scaling of the 1st person view which made it feel like the mechs were about 2m tall, and a bad radar with no customisations, e.g. size of the UI element and range covered.

Edit: this thread is about TESO, not MWO, oops. I've got almost no interest in TESO anyway, but a fixed 1st person view would guarantee I'd never even look at it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, but the point being. 3ed person orbital cam in MMO's, combined with the combat systems are a far cry from first person RPG's and the non-orbital 3ed person games like dark souls. No one ever calmed it was purely the view point that made all the difference, Except for Threash.

[apocrypha]

With or without a 1st person option this game will be a disaster.

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't have high hopes. But I am quite burned out personally in MMO underpinnings that wont die.