WOTLK November 13th.

[Trippy]

Ensuring its out for Christmas is classic date-before-quality scheduling, which is not something Blizzard is known for. 

Blizzard (or more accurately Vivendi) did the same thing for the original WoW release.

[Xanthippe]

I seem to recall that I started playing WoW in October or November, which was at launch.  Am I remembering incorrectly?

I do recall that the date was pushed a few times but I'm pretty sure I was playing well before Christmas.

[Merusk]

Thanksgiving weekend 2004 was the first weekend WOW was open, IIRC.  Wikipedia says release was November 23, 2004.

[pants]

Bah!  Mere details!  I shall not let facts get in the way of my tinfoil theories!

[Koyasha]

I'm not in the Beta, so I can't judge whether I think it's 2 months from release or not.  BC launch was pretty smooth.  WoW original launch was...not.  I do remember saying WoW wasn't ready for release, and honestly it wasn't, when it was pushed out.  It in many ways amazes me how popular it was back then considering the number of problems.

Whatever happens it is unlikely to significantly adversely affect them, no matter how not-ready they are when they launch.  I do hope that it goes smoothly like BC, not as rough as the WoW original launch, though, because for once I'm actually rather interested in the expansion, which I wasn't so much for BC.

[Ingmar]

I'm not in the Beta, so I can't judge whether I think it's 2 months from release or not.  BC launch was pretty smooth.  WoW original launch was...not.  I do remember saying WoW wasn't ready for release, and honestly it wasn't, when it was pushed out.  It in many ways amazes me how popular it was back then considering the number of problems.

Whatever happens it is unlikely to significantly adversely affect them, no matter how not-ready they are when they launch.  I do hope that it goes smoothly like BC, not as rough as the WoW original launch, though, because for once I'm actually rather interested in the expansion, which I wasn't so much for BC.

My recollection is the problems with WoW at release were mostly backend problems - the way their database handled inventory transactions, etc. Problems of scale, combined with a shitty Oracle implementation. WotLK is having a lot of technical problems with lag and the like too, but it has another layer of unfinished content and class balancing that is more significant than anything WoW was lacking in that department at initial release. I think they can still make it, but I'm a little worried that they won't.

[lamaros]

I'm not in the Beta, so I can't judge whether I think it's 2 months from release or not.  BC launch was pretty smooth.  WoW original launch was...not.  I do remember saying WoW wasn't ready for release, and honestly it wasn't, when it was pushed out.  It in many ways amazes me how popular it was back then considering the number of problems.

Whatever happens it is unlikely to significantly adversely affect them, no matter how not-ready they are when they launch.  I do hope that it goes smoothly like BC, not as rough as the WoW original launch, though, because for once I'm actually rather interested in the expansion, which I wasn't so much for BC.

So what if TBC was pretty smooth (which it wasn't for a few servers, btw), it still wasn't finished. Remember the huge patch that came out 5 months later?

[Ratman_tf]

This will be interesting for me because this is the first time I've had a level-capped character for a MMOG expansion. I usually run behind the Joneses on the achiever scale, so I can give an expansion a few months until I catch up.

[Koyasha]

So what if TBC was pretty smooth (which it wasn't for a few servers, btw), it still wasn't finished. Remember the huge patch that came out 5 months later?

What, the Black Temple patch?  I can't really think of anything significant I'd call unfinished that they put in with that patch.  They added dailies, Ogri'la and Skettis, one more arena...  I suppose druid epic flight form should have been in at launch.  They adjusted a bunch of things, fixed some bugs and made balance changes to a ton of things including making a lot of dungeons easier...but there was nothing that I remember jumping up and down in anger that it was unfinished.

[Shrike]

Too soon, Executus, too soon...

They've got a ton of class balance work left. Hell, basic talent structure. Shaman, for one, are a real mess right now. Windfury doesn't even work.

Man, I don't now about this. Guess we'll see how it goes.

[Merusk]

Another kick in the "they aren't ready" pants: if you ever want the Onyxia achievement for your Alliance characters get them keyed now.  The patch on test has removed the Ony key quest, but not the requirement for the amulet to get into her lair, according to one of my friends.  He figured when the king was put in and Ony removed - along with the starter quest in the 55 zone- they removed the key req.  Nope.

So apparently while you'll be able to zone in, kill Ony with a few 80s and get her head for the achievement points, it'll only be if you keyed prior to the next content patch.  No idea how this plays out for you hordies.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Another kick in the "they aren't ready" pants: if you ever want the Onyxia achievement for your Alliance characters get them keyed now.  The patch on test has removed the Ony key quest, but not the requirement for the amulet to get into her lair, according to one of my friends.  He figured when the king was put in and Ony removed - along with the starter quest in the 55 zone- they removed the key req.  Nope.

So apparently while you'll be able to zone in, kill Ony with a few 80s and get her head for the achievement points, it'll only be if you keyed prior to the next content patch.  No idea how this plays out for you hordies.

removing a key requirement to zone in takes all of five minutes, i seriously doubt they will leave it in. the sky isn't falling. move along

[Phunked]

It actually isn't ready.

I'm in beta atm and it's like 40% done. Unless they have sekrit miracle patch up their sleeves, this shit needs a lot of CONTENT and BALANCE help, never mind any technical issues.

The game could run like jesus, but the fact that they need a lot of number/ability tweaks (these uhh actually take a while to get right, once you factor how complex the game is) is telling that it really, really will not be ready.

[Ingmar]

It actually isn't ready.

I'm in beta atm and it's like 40% done. Unless they have sekrit miracle patch up their sleeves, this shit needs a lot of CONTENT and BALANCE help, never mind any technical issues.

The game could run like jesus, but the fact that they need a lot of number/ability tweaks (these uhh actually take a while to get right, once you factor how complex the game is) is telling that it really, really will not be ready.

I'd say its really more like 75%-85%. The quest content is basically all done. There's work to do in the instances and on itemization, plus class balance but that is getting better every patch. If anything holds it back from November I think it is going to be the technical problems.

[lamaros]

ITS SEPTEMBER. SO LIKE IT'S ANOTHER 2 MONTHS TO GO. ITS NOT LIKE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF A RELEASE DATE MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO GO BOWLING AND RELEASE WHATS IN GAME NOW INSTEAD OF SPENDING THOSE TWO MONTHS WORKING ON IT.

(Capslock is cruise control for i'm speaking to fucking idiots maybe being loud will get through to them or at least give them brain damage so they stop posting)

[Lakov_Sanite]

The level-headed question would be. Is wotlk as complete as BC was two months prior to it's release and personal opinions don't count.

[Trippy]

The level-headed question would be. Is wotlk as complete as BC was two months prior to it's release and personal opinions don't count.

That comparison only works if they have the same number of people working on it now as they did then.

[fatboy]

ITS SEPTEMBER. SO LIKE IT'S ANOTHER 2 MONTHS TO GO. ITS NOT LIKE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF A RELEASE DATE MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO GO BOWLING AND RELEASE WHATS IN GAME NOW INSTEAD OF SPENDING THOSE TWO MONTHS WORKING ON IT.

(Capslock is cruise control for i'm speaking to fucking idiots maybe being loud will get through to them or at least give them brain damage so they stop posting)

Yes....two months to the release date.

But that means only about 1 month to complete code, because the final cut needs to go to the people to burn about a million CDs.  Once that is done, the CDs must be packaged and shipped all over the World to get to the proper outlets to sell the item on Release day.

....then again.....I might just be a "fucking idiot".......

[Mazakiel]

The cds may need to be pressed a month out, but that doesn't mean they'd stop work on any problems.  That'd leave a month to finish and put everything left into a patch. 

[Oban]

I seem to remember having to patch the game even after I loaded the BC disc.

So, they can press disc's now and patch in the fun later.

[Merusk]

It's not so much a concern about their inability to change the game after install as it is an understanding of just how long Blizzard takes to do ANYTHING.  2 months in Sony & Mythic time can equate to 3-4 patch cycles.  2 Months in Blizzard time is one patch if it's a QUICK cycle.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's not so much a concern about their inability to change the game after install as it is an understanding of just how long Blizzard takes to do ANYTHING.  2 months in Sony & Mythic time can equate to 3-4 patch cycles.  2 Months in Blizzard time is one patch if it's a QUICK cycle.

I've been watching the beta and the new builds have been coming almost weekly.

[Shrike]

Actually, almost daily. Or so.

New shaman stuff up again. Nerf to toughness, WF is fixed (supposedly), new lava lash CD. More talent tier changes. Mana use adjustments. Other stuff. Geez, I hope they get this stuff squared away in two months. Shaman still seem to thoroughly confound Blizzard's attempts to find a role for us. My confidence in all this is approaching an all time low.

God, I hate expansions.

[Merusk]

I began to think that as many devs play Shamans as they do Hunters about a year ago when talking with several folks who played shaman.  I know it wasn't the usual "my class sux, buff  us" stuff because they, like me, are altaholics and played several other healer/ dps classes.  They all felt shaman were just plain lackluster and only needed for windfury and/ or chain heal.

Poor hybrids.    I hope you get some love like Pallies got.  Protadin is even more fun than it once was (although the Hardcore Protadins bitching up a storm that "we're not as good as warriors! Give us intercept/ last stand/ every other warrior tool" are getting on my nerves.)

[Ingmar]

My shaman is a freaking damage juggernaut on live, but I play elemental. Enhance seems to have some issues to me, but that could just be because the only enhance guy we have in guild is an alien.

[Mazakiel]

My current main's an enhance shammy, and I have a blast with him.  He doesn't top the charts compared to some of the other melee dpsers, but I help them do even more damage, so I'm fine with that.  Some of the changes to stuff like the talents sound fun to me, some of the mechanics changes I'm a bit meh on, but overall, I'm tentatively looking forward to the patch.  But, I've not studied the changes in detail, just skimmed over things and looked at the talent builders.

[Zetor]

Yeah, my "BC main" was a resto shammy. It's a really powerful healer, but has several huge shortcomings [esp in arena as the 'easiest to shut down / gib' healer] that are not really getting addressed. I'm considering playing my enchanter mule priest as my WOTLK main instead...

(as an aside, with the influx of roughly eleventy billion DKs, good healers [and to a lesser extent, tanks] will be in huge demand... at least that's my speculation.)


-- Z.

[lamaros]

....then again.....I might just be a "fucking idiot".......

Just for the 

Even if they release WotLK with Shaman not properly fixed or some quest or dungeon not entirely awesome is anyone really dumb enough to make some sort of argument about how that justifies them delaying the game for months?

This is a game that has had issues with various classes and gameplay element for years at a time.

WotLK with be ready and fine if it is in the same state as TBC at launch, nothing more. To expect each expension to get a bit better is reaonsable, but to expect the fundamental problems of balance and design to all of a sudden disappear and the game to be 'complete' at release is just stupid.

The game will have most of the quests working, most of the leveling dungeons working, and some raids to do. Even if all this is acomplished it will likely be in a better state than TBC was. Many of you are not fuckwits who level to cap inside a week, but I was and I can assure you there there were a number of things that didn't work early in TBC, despite things being pretty good on the whole. (This is of course not counting the raid game, which was a mess.) WotLK will just as good by the time it is patched up after you install.

[Ingmar]

The class balance changes in PVE with the buff combination and the tanking changes are also far more extreme than TBC. They could tweak numbers for years. Expect rough seas ahead on some of that stuff, but I don't think that will hold back release.

[Fordel]

My shaman is a freaking damage juggernaut on live, but I play elemental. Enhance seems to have some issues to me, but that could just be because the only enhance guy we have in guild is an alien.

Enhances big issue on live (for earthlings at least) is it's pretty much point and pray. Strike, Shock, Wait, Repeat.

Maelstrom Weapon and Lava Lash should help that some. Give the DPS rotations a little more thought.



Resto Shamans are getting a instant cast HoT (Holy Paladins collectively implode around now) spell to replace Spirit Link. I'm kinda sad to see Spirit Link get the axe, but it was too unwieldy a mechanic to iron out.


Elementals will have to do something other then 222322232223 ... the horror 

Really, it is an amusing contrast to Balance Druids, which will actually cast fewer spells, despite the Devs best efforts to make use cycle between Wrath and Starfire.

[Soln]

Anyone notice that nearly every caster class now gets a pet? (talents)

[Merusk]

Yep.

Lots of them live longer than Hunter/ Lock pets too, from what I've been told.   

The DK one will fuck you up bad, too. Before the DK gets in there and eats you up/ dies and rezzes as a ghoul to continue on. 

[K9]

Army of the dead is comedic

As a priest I don't really want a pet. I like my shadowfiend, but that's more of an unintelligent DoT than anything else.

[Fordel]

The DK one if specced for it, IS a real pet.

The Druid/Shaman/Mage pets are all one AE and dead. The Mage one is the only one with any real use. The plus side is my Treants finally have a pet bar, so they might actually attack a target more then once a week  but like the Shadowfiend, they are just really fancy DoTs on a long cool down. There old 'utility' was the fact there is 3 of them, and it was pushback hell for anyone not bright enough to AE and move on. That is a moot point now.

[Soln]

Still.  No one find it odd EVERY caster class now has pets?  Long ago it was only the Lock and Hunter, now everyone has an aggro/pet-pull capability.  I just wonder about balance.  May not be a serious issue, but I saw DAoC partly go down the toilet once they started handing out pets/turrets etc.