Dr. Who

[Surlyboi]

This one was amazing. Even with the Moffatry.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Really? I thought the last 5 minutes ruined it.  It's like they just HAD to make Clara an even more special snowflake and somehow tie the lore even more together in unnecessary ways.

[Ironwood]

My daughter asked :  So what was the thing under the cover then ?

To which I was forced to reply 'Ah, that was a Moffat Plothole honey, the worst baddie in the Dr Who Universe.'

More smoke and mirrors.

[Malakili]

It's like they just HAD to make Clara an even more special snowflake and somehow tie the lore even more together in unnecessary ways.

That ship sailed so long ago that it doesn't even phase me anymore.

[Lakov_Sanite]

My daughter asked :  So what was the thing under the cover then ?

To which I was forced to reply 'Ah, that was a Moffat Plothole honey, the worst baddie in the Dr Who Universe.'

More smoke and mirrors.

I mean it quite literally could have been another kid in the orphanage fucking with them as they mentioned briefly.  I think what annoys me is that everything in the episode seemed to be to fuck with us the viewers and not necessarily the characters in a way that felt more manipulative than anything.  The bit on the bed? Genuinely scary until the end of the episode then that scare just becomes confusing and anger inducing.

The episode was about fear and the tricks it plays on you, great.  Some of the stuff in the episode can be explainined by fear getting the better of the characters but the chalkboard, the coffee mug, the airlock opening and the thing on the bed were never given plausible explanations,

[Ironwood]

Rewatch it ;  The Doctor Stole the coffee.

It was a really good episode right up until the point you thought about it.  Classic Moffat.

I love Capaldi tho.  He's so Tom Baker, it's not real.  Fantastic.

[Tmon]

I love Capaldi tho.  He's so Tom Baker, it's not real.  Fantastic.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets a Tom Baker vibe from Capaldi's Dr.

[HaemishM]

Capaldi is fantastic.

The episode, though, was TOTAL SHIT. I mean, it had style, it had dialogue bits, it had creepy moments and atmosphere...

and it was entirely for naught. Not one fucking thing came out of that episode except I must have sprained my eyes rolling them so hard. It was Blink without a villain, conflict or reason for being. Not to mention just flat out shitting on previously established "rules" about time travel like "don't cross your own time stream or the universe will assplode" thing which if you break it, it better be for a damn good reason. So we break that rule so Clara can unfuck her date. Really? The bedsheet? Great bit of set up for a creepy reveal and then it just vanishes because... because we had to have one more fucking episode where we try to dissect why the Doctor is the Doctor. Haven't we done that shit enough? Stop exploring it, start writing good stories where the Doctor goes in to a weird planet or time period and saves the fucking day from robots or something. Like last week's only without the fucking golden arrow.

I mean, I'd watch the Clara Oswald & Danny Pink hour, but that's not the show I'm tuning in for.

[MahrinSkel]

I think they were trying to do something different from the usual "Boyfriend gets dragged along for the ride", but I'm with Ironwood: If you're going to have an offscreen menace that turns out to be fear-induced hysteria, KEEP THE DAMNED THING OFF SCREEN.

Because by putting the damned floating bedsheet in, you either have a big damned (and completely un-necessary) plot-hole, or you totally defeated the apparent "point" of the episode (again, un-necessarily, if you're going to call it back later you don't have to be so damned hamfisted about your foreshadowing).

--Dave (damn, I seem to have used the word 'damned' a lot.  Moffat's hamfisted writing style is contagious, I'm usually much more creative in my expletives)

[Ironwood]

Also, Gallifrey was meant to be time locked.  They shouldn't have been there, assuming that THERE is the barn.  It could, of course, be a barn on another planet.

Gah.  Wank.

[HaemishM]

But then that means the John Hurt Doctor was THERE back when he and Tennant and Smith met up so it couldn't be Gallifrey although they clearly intimated that it IS Gallifrey. Of course, if you "time lock" something, how does that affect time travel going in and out in its past?

The plot holes are entirely too large to handwave away. Utter shit.

[palmer_eldritch]

Who dreams of writing stories about a mysterious alien on the run from his even more mysterious and seemingly all-powerful people and decides ok, we'll show him growing up with nice middle class parents who worry about whether he'll win a place in the space academy and he lives in a barn.

Fear is like a companion because he was afraid of his companion, get it? Did you? Did you get it? It was Clara all along!! 

[HaemishM]

Fear is like a companion because he was afraid of his companion, get it? Did you? Did you get it? It was Clara all along!! 

This statement and the frightening realization that it thoroughly encapsulates the entire point of this episode makes me want a club a little baby seal.

[Ironwood]

 

[DraconianOne]

The plot holes are entirely too large to handwave away. Utter shit.

Come on - it's Dr Who.  That's the entire 50 years of the series in a nutshell.

[HaemishM]

No. No it fucking isn't. Look, I may not have watched every episode but the writers on this show have never let the fact that their monsters are made of painted bubble wrap stop them from crafting stories that at least TRY to make some goddamn sense. This isn't "dilithium crystals" type of handwaving, this is "just forget about that really important shit I showed you halfway through the episode, I just did that because it looked kind of cool, it didn't mean shit, LALALALA LOOK AT CLARA OSWALD'S ASS!!!!"

While I'm perfectly happy to look at Clara Oswald's ass, I still want a story that doesn't make me scream "WHAT?" at the TV every 15 minutes.

[rattran]

I think, Haemish, Doctor Who just isn't a show for you. I figured out it wasn't a show for me at the end of Smith's first series. Just watch the old ones, and move along. Check back for when the Moffatry is done.

[Ironwood]

How dare you, Sir.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I think, Haemish, Doctor Who just isn't a show for you. I figured out it wasn't a show for me at the end of Smith's first series. Just watch the old ones, and move along. Check back for when the Moffatry is done.

Like it or not DW is massively popular right now and the idea that anyone wants to turn that ship around is ridiculous.  Like it or not the moffatry has made the show millions of dollars so it is how they say in Aurora "Game on"

[palmer_eldritch]

Ok lets look at ratings pre-Moffat

First three episodes of series 2, chosen because it's my favourite (Rose! Rose!  )
New Earth 8.62m
Tooth and Claw 9.24m
School reunion 8.3m

First three episodes of current series (series 8)
Deep Breath 9.17
Into the Dalek 7.29
Robot of Sherwood 7.28

Source: Wikiwakipedia

I’m being extremely kind to the Grand Moff  because the series two ratings are overnight only while the series 8 ratings include iPlayer viewings which actually add a couple of million to the totals.

So in conclusion, I submit the show can be successful without Moffat.

[Setanta]

I agree with Haemish on this one. Special effects have improved over the 70s versions by an enormous amount. Storyline not so much. I still remember that when Jon Pertwee was the Doctor he couldn't leave the Earth... ever, because the BBC couldn't afford the SFX needed. So his Tardis was locked to Earth and could only travel through time - yet the seasons were still freaking awesome (even with plates of jelly and tinfoil as SFX). It took good writing to go from Troughton's time AND space Pertwee's time only yet the writers made it work.

Tom Baker's series had some great writing and then it started to go down hill (seriously, Tristan from All Creatures Great and Small as the Doctor). The reboot was great and while Moffat wrote one or two excellent stories for doctors pre-Cappaldi, that seems to be his strength. Giving him ownership of the story is just meh.

[Ironwood]

More recycled predictable boaby.

[apocrypha]

The golden arrow was the end of it for me. Haven't bothered watching the last 2, I think I'm done.

[Malakili]

Well, I like a good heist, so this wasn't too bad.

[Ironwood]

It's really, really not a good heist when your man has a time machine.

And the handwaving 'I can't use my time machine for this' was just garbage.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's really, really not a good heist when your man has a time machine.

And the handwaving 'I can't use my time machine for this' was just garbage.

This seems a bit nitpicky.  By that token just never bother writing a superman story ever because every one of them has to make an excuse as to why he can't overpower a situation.  The tardis is kind of the same, it NEEDS to be handwaved away sometimes.

[Triforcer]

I have no opinion on this Doctor.  I don't like or dislike him, and after each episode I have to struggle to remember what he looks like and his personality treats.  This is probably due to me only ever seeing the new series- 10 and 11 were both physically comedic dandies, and maybe that's left me unable to appreciate a doctor who is supposedly more of a throwback.  Although, come to think of it, 9 did the brooding well and seemed to have depth- there is just something about Capaldi that leaves me lukewarm.

[Ironwood]

By that token just never bother writing a superman story ever because every one of them has to make an excuse as to why he can't overpower a situation.  The tardis is kind of the same, it NEEDS to be handwaved away sometimes.

I get that.  But it's not hard to write a REAL reason.

A solar storm.  It's not like you can park the TARDIS there the day before and wait or anything.   

[HaemishM]

It was also horribly predictable. I knew the reason they were in there the minute they "stumbled" upon the Teller while escaping the utterly invisible security. Seriously, for "the most secure bank in the world" they were just incredibly inept at security, not to mention forgetting the whole "we have a creature that detects criminal intent but somehow can't detect four people who can't possibly be thinking of anything but criminal intent" thing.

[Merusk]

I find it telling of my opinion of the show that I've had better things to do or forgotten it was on for all 3-4 weeks after the premier episode. Kinda sad.

[Ironwood]

Damn, that was really, really good.  Apart from the last five seconds of moffatry.

Seriously, make time for it, it's was worth it, I think.

[Surlyboi]

Deep cover! Deep cover!

And Clara's so goddamn hot.

[HaemishM]

I still don't get the whole 'hates soldiers' thing. It really really really pisses me right the fuck off. If he's trying to say it's a result of him coming to terms with what he did in the Time War, I ain't buying it. It's ham-fisted and so out of character with the history of the show. I really like Danny Pink, though and I hope he gets to do some time travel before he and Clara settle down to get married and have babies.

[palmer_eldritch]

I liked it but although it was all explained at the end I did feel the Doctor was being a bit of a dick.

[Lakov_Sanite]

He IS a bit of a dick and that is awesome.

Also I think the whole soldier hating thing has more to do with the particular incarnation than anything.  Sort of like "I'm old, cranky and tired of all this bullshit" especially when it comes soldiers.

I mean no previous doctor liked fish fingers and custard either so it's not out of character to suddenly like/dislike things when they regenerate.