Dr. Who

[Ironwood]

I believe they already established that timelords can regenerate across sex.

Um ?

[Khaldun]

Yes, she's a Time-Lord with 11 or 12 regenerations left.

However, there's something 'odd' about her that we're not yet privvy to.  It's possible due to the duplicate nature of the DNA, The Doctor can't sense her.  He's still of the opinion that he's the only Time Lord, despite us knowing different.

It would be really, really good if she could come back as a companion at some point.  Especially given that you have total leeway with casting as it's in built handwavvy at this point.  Romana was awesome and even the nonsense that was The Rani had enough meat on it to be fun.


Khaldun has an interesting story there, so it'll almost certainly be rejected.  There's also the issue that you can't really retroactively make regenerations, since up to 5, The Doctor himself stated that he hadn't had one, if you follow me.

Yeah, but they've already covered themselves on this one: Hurt isn't "the Doctor" exactly. All his later regenerations renounced him (however many are "later", depending on when he happened in the Doctor's timeline) so they'd not count him and not even want to ever let anyone know about him.

I really like the idea of the Doctor as a political dissident disowning not just his people but his earlier self. It doesn't just enrich the character, it enriches his mythos--it begins to make the numbers of Time Lords who went renegade in one way or the other make a new kind of sense.

[Ironwood]

I dunno.  I'm with Ockham on this one.

[HaemishM]

Occam thinks Moffat is simple? 

[Ironwood]

No, he thinks he's a hack that's going to rip off the Valeyard shite.

[Khaldun]

The Valeyard is not a good idea and they'd be wise to stay far away from anything in that era of the show. It's one reason I'm more sanguine about Moffat even when I don't like his approach--I really think the people flipping out need to watch late-period John Nathan-Turner Who to get a better sense of proportion about what badness can be.

[Ironwood]

You don't need to tell me about Pants Baker and Awful McCoy.

 

[adjunct]

Perhaps Hurt is playing a later version of the 8th (doubtful) or someone between 8 and 9 who actually led the charge in the Time War. Perhaps The Doctor ended the Time War because he himself caused it or made it worse in some way in a regeneration that he is trying to hide?

[Khaldun]

I think you have to imagine that the Time War has been going on at least since "Genesis of the Daleks"--in fact, that the Time Lords, knowing something about the likely evolution of the Daleks, were the initial aggressors in the war in "Genesis" but only succeeded in giving Davros and the Daleks an early awareness of the existence of time travel. The Time War that the 8th or 9th Doctor fought more actively in seems to me to be some kind of escalation or all-out intensification of an ongoing conflict.

[eldaec]

Stop trying to puzzle it out with logic.

This a Moffat plot line. It won't make any sense.

I don't really have any problem with him being the valeyard. It was terrible first time around because the scripts of that era were terrible, not because the idea is especially bad. It will probably be terrible this time as well, but because of the writer, not because of the idea.

 A doctor regeneration who shows up to end the time war and then develops such self loathing he becomes an antagonist for the other regenerations sounds like a decent premise. The issue is going to be the execution. There is no way Moffat can write a satisfying time war, or a satisfying way to resolve the meeting of the doctors with the Valeyard. Writing mechanics based episodes is hard at the best of times.

[HaemishM]

So since I'd seen so little of Colin Baker's run and the Valeyard keeps getting brought up, I Netflixed Part 1 of Trial of the Time Lord.

Yeah, it wasn't very good. Even in relation to the Baker "guys wrapped in bubble wrap," it was not good. Peri is fucking annoying as shit. I can imagine Brits getting up in arms about an "American" being a companion but really, she was just irritating. And when they wrote Colin Baker's version of the Doctor, was their starting baseline "raging dickhead?" Because he was. He just left Peri to wander on a mysterious planet alone like that ever ends well and didn't give two shits about her bad feelings. The only other episode of his I saw also portrayed him as a total tool. Were the writers just tired of the Doctor being liked?

[Khaldun]

Actually, pretty much exactly that. The plan for Colin Baker was that he would be enormously unlikeable and unstable in his first year and then essentially be broken down and built back up again--that the character would have to earn his likeability through dramatic travails. The problem with that was: an incompetent producer, an actor more or less incapable of pulling it off, wretched scripts, a thoroughly unlikeable companion who was just tits and screaming, and bad adversaries. Trial of a Time Lord was their attempt to get the plan back on track--too little too late. Then you get the Cartmel Masterplan with McCoy, but the first year of McCoy's scripts and characterization weren't in synch with the better ideas of the masterplan. He was kind of sort of getting there when the show got cancelled but the scripts were still pretty weak.

In many ways, nuWho is many the good ideas that were utterly lost in horrible horrible execution in the last 3-4 years of the old show brought forward with better scripts, better show-running, better effects and better actors.

[Ironwood]

And then Moffat happened and we ended up right back in there again.

I never minded Peri that much.  The tits were, in fact, utterly fantastic.  There's a line from Peter Davidson about his regeneration scene, in which he mentions the sadness of leaving the role was overshadowed by her leaning over him as he died.  Spectacular view.

[eldaec]

Neither Colin Baker nor Slyvester McCoy were bad actors.

I agree with the rest of what you said, but there has never been a run in Who that was bad because of the doctor's performance.

[Ironwood]

Oh come on, there are actors that just aren't suited to particular roles.  While McCoy had some 'good' Doctor moments, I watched the entirety of Colin Baker and there wasn't a good bit to be found ANYWHERE.  It was a big, big mistake putting him there.

[palmer_eldritch]

A doctor regeneration who shows up to end the time war and then develops such self loathing he becomes an antagonist for the other regenerations sounds like a decent premise. The issue is going to be the execution. There is no way Moffat can write a satisfying time war, or a satisfying way to resolve the meeting of the doctors with the Valeyard. Writing mechanics based episodes is hard at the best of times.

That could be a good story.

I'd got the impression though that the Ecclestone Doctor was already supposed to be something a little like that. At the end of Journey's End, when Rose goes off to live with the human Doctor, the real Doctor gives a little speech about how the human Doctor was kind of evil because he'd been born in a war and suggests basically that Rose's love would save him, and if I recall correctly he says something to the effect that Rose has already done that once before, which seemed to be a reference to the ninth Doctor, as I understood it anyway.

Moffat has done some good stuff in the past though. Let's hope for a return to form! So we can be horribly dissapointed

[Simond]

Speaking of probable disappointments, that rumours of someone finding 90 of the 'lost' episodes just refuses to die.

[eldaec]

I gather the new doctor actor is being announced on Sunday.

Peter Capaldi and Idris Elba lead the betting. I would assume Elba is only there because he gets mentioned for literally every conceivable role. Capaldi would be an interesting choice, I really struggle to picture him in the same Tennant/Smith hyperactive big kid mold. If they want something a little darker in the vein of Hartnell/Baker/Ecclestone he could be a great choice, whether Moffat can write for that is another matter.

Also worth noting I've hated every doctor choice in the history of the show when they were announced, and every actor has proved me wrong (despite often terrible material to work with). So my opinion on this subject is broadly unsound.

[Tebonas]

I know they used actors as companions that had different roles in the past, but John Frobisher as the Doctor? The big man himself recycled?

But then I am partial to Idris Elba as Doctor, not that this would ever happen...

[eldaec]

Being the doctor is a 6 month/year commitment that is likely to typecast you for both TV and film work. Elba would be daft to take it if he wants to build a film career. Especially if the bond rumours are true.

The Doctor is a much better proposition for a career stage actor who could use a TV gig to pay bills in the short term and ramp up his box office pull in the long term, while still giving him enough of the year free for a turn in the west end during the off months. Hence Tennant, Smith, Capaldi.

[Ironwood]

Romana did it.

[Evildrider]

I'd still like to see Rupert Grint get the job.   

[Khaldun]

In the meantime, it's also clear from the folks who saw the trailer for the 50th at Comic Con that Hurt is the Time War Doctor--maybe even the person who started the Time War with an all-out attack on the Daleks.

[Merusk]

I'd still like to see Rupert Grint get the job.   

I have my doubts about Mr. Grint's actual acting ability, so no.

[Evildrider]

Peter Capaldi looks to be the most likely candidate.  I guess they've stopped letting people even bet on him being named on Sunday.  Not really familiar with who he is and I don't know if an older Doctor will really help the show in the long run.

[Lianka]

Peter Capaldi looks to be the most likely candidate.  I guess they've stopped letting people even bet on him being named on Sunday.  Not really familiar with who he is and I don't know if an older Doctor will really help the show in the long run.

I don't know if I can buy Capaldi as the Doctor after him being so damned good at Malcolm Tucker.  I'll be expecting a torrent of profanity coming out of his mouth every time he's on screen.  Plus, will they make him Un-Scottish? 

[satael]

I'll guess they'll pick Bill Bailey for the next doctor!   (I doubt anyone else would even think of that one...)

[palmer_eldritch]

For anyone who doesn't know about Peter Capaldi, he's best known as a character called Malcolm Tucker in The Thick of It, the British version of Veep.

Malcolm Tucker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj8 (Not work safe because of very bad language)

He appeared in The Fires of Pompeii as the father of the Roman family.

And he was civil servant John Frobisher in Torchwood: Children of Earth, where I personally thought he was very good. To refresh your memory if you've seen it:



Peter Capaldi in Torchwood.

I'm sure he could do it in an English accent but if they do cast him, I don't see why he couldn't play Doctor Who with a Scottish accent.

[eldaec]

It's not as if his accent is any stronger than Christopher Ecclestone's.

[Khaldun]

I wouldn't be unhappy if they cast Capaldi--it's time for the Doctor to be older again, and I've liked him in what I've seen him in--but I do sort of wish they'd be ballsy enough to cast a non-white actor. I also don't mind a woman at all, except that I think Moffat would screw it up with a lot of the Doctor groping himself, etc.--the important thing, jokes about ginger or nose size aside, is that the Doctor be essentially somewhat unconcerned with his body. If he/she is non-white or a woman, it's really important that the character act like that's no big deal and that his companions more or less get on board with that right away. It would be especially tedious if the Doctor's adversaries spent two seasons saying stuff like, "The Doctor is a FE-MALE! EXTERMINATE" or "Ah, Doctor, so I see you have become a Negro! It will not save you from my tissue compactor!"

[Ironwood]

You all know Tennant is Scottish right ?  Some of the stuff you're saying here is just stupid, given that.

I mean, fucking Paisley accent.  If you can hide that, you can hide fucking Greek.


Actually, McCoy as well.

[palmer_eldritch]

I wouldn't be unhappy if they cast Capaldi--it's time for the Doctor to be older again, and I've liked him in what I've seen him in--but I do sort of wish they'd be ballsy enough to cast a non-white actor. I also don't mind a woman at all, except that I think Moffat would screw it up with a lot of the Doctor groping himself, etc.--the important thing, jokes about ginger or nose size aside, is that the Doctor be essentially somewhat unconcerned with his body. If he/she is non-white or a woman, it's really important that the character act like that's no big deal and that his companions more or less get on board with that right away. It would be especially tedious if the Doctor's adversaries spent two seasons saying stuff like, "The Doctor is a FE-MALE! EXTERMINATE" or "Ah, Doctor, so I see you have become a Negro! It will not save you from my tissue compactor!"

Unless they are human themselves, it wouldn't make sense for his adversaries to have the same bizarre superstitious fetish about skin tone as we do.

[Evildrider]

Don't look at this spoiler if you hate them. 

[HaemishM]

I... what... why?

I'd be fine with Capaldi - it's time we got back to a Doctor that was a bit older. I'd also have no problem with Elba since he deserves any role he wants. But that spoiler? There's no fucking way that wanker Moffat doesn't fuck that up royally.

[Ironwood]

Don't look at this spoiler if you hate them. 

I'd like that, mostly because it can't be worse than the entirety of Shite that got churned out through Smiths stuff.

That said, it sounds like pre-rumour shite.