DRM infects Sacred2. You don't own the game!

[rattran]

As reported by RPGWatch

The Gist:

# 1 box, 2 licenses
# 1 license can be used online at a time; implying you use either your PC or your notebook, but not both at the same time.
# 2 can be played via LAN
# 2 can be used for SP
# One PC component can be replaced without problems. Beyond that revoke & re-activate is the recommended procedure.
# Internet connection is needed during installation. The FAQ explains you can use a friend's PC for manual activation though.
# You can play without the DVD. It´s not needed in the drive.
# unlimited installations, 2 activations
# "A transfer to a third [party] is not part of the license." (transl.)

So, some reasonable, some evil. I'm not into selling games or buying them used, but turning it into an impossibility seems to drop value from the game. Seems to me games fit in the same category as hardbound books, where the higher price is partly justified by the resellability. I know my nephews go through a lot of games, buying some new, some used, and selling them/trading to their friends. They won't be buying Sacred2 for the same reason they didn't buy Bioshock, Spore, or any Valve games though, they live in Nowhere, Michigan and have crappy dialup as their only internet option. But this means others who also look at trade-in/resale are sol too.

[Tebonas]

When do those retards learn that computer parts tend to crap out and have to be replaced?

And while I personally don't sell games, taking away the ability to do is beyond fucked up. Yes, I sometimes lend my brother-in-law my games. He has my sisters child to care for, so he can't blow the same insane amounts of cash on games that I do. And when I'm done with them they rot away in some cupboard otherwise.

So fuck you Ascaron!

[schild]

This is bullshit.

[Tebonas]

Hmm, looks like a wrong translation to me:

Um das Spiel auf einem anderen Rechner installieren zu können bzw. weiter zu verkaufen,

Revoking the activation is important to reset the full activation rights and allow you to install the game on another computer or sell it.

[rattran]

From their serial unlock page

Warning :
Revocation problems can be caused by a change in hardware components on the system.
If this happens, then it is recommended to install the old hardware, revoke and then install the new hardware.

I usually replace hardware before it goes bad, but in case of catastrophic failure yuo=fukt

[SnakeCharmer]

And if the old hardware is kaput, what do you do?

Re reselling / trade in:  Needs to die.

[MrHat]

Are the online games like direct IP? Or is there a matching system?

[schild]

I've asked the PR for Ascaron if this horrible shit will be on Sacred 2 and whether they really want to go down the same road Spore just went down.

PR got my email and is "looking into it."

[Hawkbit]

Spore had the EA backing and name recognition to take the Amazon press debacle.  Sacred does not. 

I won't buy it with the conditions listed above. 

[schild]

Got clarification:

Sacred 2: Fallen Angel does not, in fact, include any type of copy
protection. Instead it uses a new Digital Rights Management (DRM) solution,
jointly developed between Ascaron and Sony to create a unique version of
SecuROM that has not been included in any other video game product to date.
The goal of this approach was to focus on striking a sensible balance
between protecting intellectual property rights and giving legitimate
customers the least intrusive approach possible (such as unlimited
re-installs, concurrent play on two machines in single-player or LAN-based
cooperative mode,  and 24/7 support for any DRM-related issues should they
arise).

Other issues related to transfer of product license and ownership are
controlled by each territory's EULA, and those communicated in the press
release by Ascaron are applicable for the German language territories. cdv,
as North American publisher, is currently formulating the license rights it
intends to provide to each customer, and will finalize these after careful
consideration of and in compliance with the regulations and customer
expectations as they apply to the North American market.

I did not ask about copy solutions btw, I asked about DRM. Marketing is hard sometimes I suppose. They couldn't spin this into awesome with cupcakes.

[Bzalthek]

Man, it's like the entire world has been taking stupid pills and didn't bother to let me know about it.  If this shit becomes the norm, it will be the end of my single player game days.

[Azazel]

And if the old hardware is kaput, what do you do?

Re reselling / trade in:  Needs to die.

Right of first sale. I don't like EBgames' racket either, but if I buy it, I'll do what I want with it.

Guess I won't be buying this, either.

 

[Calantus]

As reported by RPGWatch

The Gist:

# 1 box, 2 licenses
# 1 license can be used online at a time; implying you use either your PC or your notebook, but not both at the same time.
# 2 can be played via LAN
# 2 can be used for SP
# One PC component can be replaced without problems. Beyond that revoke & re-activate is the recommended procedure.
# Internet connection is needed during installation. The FAQ explains you can use a friend's PC for manual activation though.
# You can play without the DVD. It´s not needed in the drive.
# unlimited installations, 2 activations
# "A transfer to a third [party] is not part of the license." (transl.)

So, some reasonable, some evil. I'm not into selling games or buying them used, but turning it into an impossibility seems to drop value from the game. Seems to me games fit in the same category as hardbound books, where the higher price is partly justified by the resellability. I know my nephews go through a lot of games, buying some new, some used, and selling them/trading to their friends. They won't be buying Sacred2 for the same reason they didn't buy Bioshock, Spore, or any Valve games though, they live in Nowhere, Michigan and have crappy dialup as their only internet option. But this means others who also look at trade-in/resale are sol too.

I haven't bought a singleplayer computer game in a long time. A very long time. I think the last one I bought was 2142, and that one I didn't buy for a long time until I knew the Australian version ripped out the spyware advertising. Unless Fallout 3 is Robot Jesus I think I'll give up on the market and my PC can amuse itself with WoW and... WoW until the end of days.

[Azazel]

erm.. 2142 is meant to be played as an online multiplayer game...

[Calantus]

I wasn't using 2142 as an example of DRM, it's just coincidentally the last PC game I bought.


(Well, HOMM5 as well but that was like last week and it's been out for ages and the reason I didn't buy it in the first place was because of DRM controversy)

[Azazel]

Not DRM, you were talking about single-player computer games. Or it certainly read that way, at least.

[Calantus]

I was not my intention to use DRM and 2142 together at all. It was simply the last game I could remember buying before I started knocking desired games back because of DRM.

[Azazel]

Yes. I understand.

But.
I.
Was.
Never.
Talking.
About.
D.
R.
M.
In.
Reference.
To.
Your.
Post.

 

[Calantus]

Oh I see. No I meant non-MMOG.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm reading that and thinking "Man, just skip all that bullshit and torrent it!"

Remind me how DRM stops piracy?   

[NiX]

I'm reading that and thinking "Man, just skip all that bullshit and torrent it!"

Remind me how DRM stops piracy?   

It creates a lasting trusting relationship between the customer and company by finding a balance within the DRM software to ensure their intellectual property remains safe while making it known they don't believe their Customers are Pirates.

That reminds me... I need to delete the Spore Torrent I downloaded.

[Samwise]

Remind me how DRM stops piracy?   

The goal isn't to stop piracy altogether, but to punish pirates. 

All customers are potential pirates. 

Therefore, only by causing the maximum amount of inconvenience to the maximum number of customers can DRM strike the greatest blow against piracy.

 

[WindupAtheist]

That reminds me... I need to delete the Spore Torrent I downloaded.

I need to finish the one I'm downloading.  "Kinda neat but shallow and flawed and it comes with wacky DRM" is the kinda thing piracy was practically made for.

[HaemishM]

Your licenses crap out when you change out hardware? Are you fucking kidding me? FAIL.

[Shrike]

OK, there's been a firestorm over this crap over on the Ascaron forums, and rightly so. At first blush, it looks bad. Bad enough to nix the PC version and just go 360.

However, Tom finally got off his thumbs and posted a reasonably intelligible response. To wit:

Hello Folks

Sacred2 is offivcially Games for Windows certified and approved to carry and use this logo officially. Since Sacred2 and OUR way and special for us made Securom are married the combination Sacred2/Securom is GfW certified from Microsoft. Spyware and other bad things are not getting certification I can tell you.

Sacred2/Securom used and developed for Ascaron is 100% compatible with Microsoft Windows XP and Vista. We are implementing and developing Securom since Feb into Sacred2...long before Spore/Securom was in discussion.

The only data that will be send to the www.unlock.sacred2.com is the Serial Key from the back of the manual. The only data that www.unlocksacred2.com sends back to Sacred2 is the aktivation key.

You can do this all manually...no direct connection between Sacred2 and keyserver required if you dont trust Ascaron. It is just more easy to do it this way because its an automatic process.

After de-installation only one data is left : Sacred2 aktivation information to have an easy new installation process.

Sacred2 allows to change hardware...1 or 2 things at the same time and no new activation needed.

You decide on how many rigs S2 is installed...but only active on 2 rigs at the same time. Desktop and notebook...play adhoc LAN with somebody else...why not.

You can play LAN with your wife, kid or girlfirend, friend, husband, etc.

I dot like disk based CP...useless and not userfriendly. The first thing that comes up is a NoCD crack.

Sacred2/Securom is different from EA´s way of doing it. Our DRM is specialy designed to be user friendly as a compromize between your needs and our needs.

All the best
Heiko


Now, supposedly this just deals with the German version and the NA version might very well be different, but I'd be betting it's not. CDV hasn't said very much about Sacred 2 and not a thing this month, despite the fact the game ships on the 30th. Take whatever salt you need.

[schild]

Still sounds like shit. Even in broken english.

[rattran]

[Ratman_tf]

The goal isn't to stop piracy altogether, but to punish pirates. 

All customers are potential pirates. 

Therefore, only by causing the maximum amount of inconvenience to the maximum number of customers can DRM strike the greatest blow against piracy.

 

"For safe and secure gaming!"

[Yegolev]

I'm excited about Diablo 3.  Tell Tom that.

[NiX]

I'm excited about Diablo 3.  Tell Tom that.

I don't know why, but I lol'd.

[FatuousTwat]

Heiko

I recently found out that Heiko is 3rd most used first name in relation to my last name. I can't even properly spell my last name in english, it has an umlaut in it. I feel special.

[Bzalthek]

You can spell it in English.  We don't believe in those fancy little squigglies and dots round these parts anyhow.

[Lantyssa]

Add an 'o'.

[FatuousTwat]

Actually we add an E. I'm not sure if it's correct. From Klätsch to Klaetsch. We have always pronounced it clutch, but I'm not even sure if that is the "old country" way of saying it. Klaytch? Klatch?

I'm starting to think about signing it without the e and adding an umlaut.

[Bzalthek]

Throw em for a loop and make em little hearts.