EVE Online: Leipzig Interview

[lac]

Ever wondered how many fashion designers/tailors CCP hired to make ambulation characters look exactly right or how much fatter one will look when going weeks without docking?

Find out now

[ajax34i]

Heh, CCP is like one of those management seminar speakers (I attended one of these seminars recently):  most people code whatever project they have and rely on the results to impress, and the marketing campaign focuses on the product/results; CCP highlights every step of the coding process and try to make mundane things sound like epic undertakings and thought-provoking examples that should be followed.

Oh, we didn't just flush the toilet after taking a dump, we used gloves to do so.  And an economist was there to calculate probable outcomes and provide an analysis of the results.  Not just an economist, either, a PhD economics expert!  The top one we could find in our country!!!!1

Just code it already.  It'll suck.  We all know it.

[Grand Design]

I still don't understand what ambulation is going to bring to the game.  At any level.  It seems like someone's pet idea that somehow morphed into a major shift in direction for the development of Eve.  If I want to get out of my ship and walk around, I'll turn off Eve and go do something else.


Edit: I forgot about the space hookers.  It will bring that.

[Endie]

I, on the other hand, still don't understand why people complain about ambulation.  It's essentially part of their Vampire project, and they've said in the past that, like the graphics upgrade or mission content enhancements, it is not stealing coding resources from the core game.  So if you don't want to, don't get out of your ship.  Hell, rat solidly for a few months, get into a mothership, and don't even dock!

CCP have always had this whole end-to-end grandiose vision for the game.  I like that.

[Grand Design]

Ah, I forgot about the vampire project.  So, what you're saying is that it isn't sucking any resources from Eve. 

I don't know - from that interview, it sounds like they're going to some length to incorporate ambulation into Eve. 

CCP is working very hard to maintain the feeling of their universe in these new environments, it should be noted that they have hired a number of consultants...

...they are working with real-world architects to make sure that the spirit of the races and cultures are preserved...

...the developers have hired on three fashion designers and a tailor...

So, that's five or more non-technical resources devoted to fluff.  I agree that its nice for CCP to have a grandiose vision, but I'm still in the camp that thinks they should focus on tuning what is in place before introducing something of dubious value to a game about space combat and politics.  Consider this my roundabout way of complaining about the UI without actually complaining about the UI.

[Endie]

True, but I specifically restricted my comment to coding resources.

[Grand Design]

But, three fashion designers for a space game?  I better look swank when this thing releases.

[Endie]

But, three fashion designers for a space game?  I better look swank when this thing releases.

Well, if the crossover with the Vampire MMO is as great as they say then I hope your character looks good in black.

[MahrinSkel]

They say it's not stealing programming resources, and that may be true in the strict sense that no fewer programmers are working on core Eve issues than were before.  But it's certainly taking all of their design focus, and it's become the defining feature of the future direction of the game.  Planetary development, governmental infrastructure (in the sense of making Alliances more capable of functioning like governments), etc., there were a lot of other things they used to talk about as being the future of the game, and slowly they've all been replaced by Ambulation.

It's a big part of why I dropped out of playing.  There's no real gameplay in Ambulation, it's just cosmetics, and although those cosmetics might or might not make the game more approachable and increase the playerbase (because a lot of people just can't deal with a ship as their character), they won't do anything to make *my* game experience more enjoyable.  Hell, they aren't even giving us skinnable ships and displayed Corp/Alliance symbols, which would be equally cosmetic and a hell of a lot easier.  Just...avatars.  That walk around.  Between station services.

Taking your UI and turning it into a 3D environment does not in and of itself make gameplay.  This is why every "3D Web" metaverse concept is DOA.

--Dave

[Amarr HM]

I have to agree with Mahrin here the thing that attracted me to Eve in the first place was the intricacy of the game and somewhat higher IQ of the playerbase (debatable I know), but I think this is just part of a mass dumbing down. Governmental infrastructure and planetary development now that would be much more intriguing.

[IainC]

My problem with Ambulation is that docking is mostly interstitial bits. I want to dock, click some buttons to get all the crap I docked for done then undock and play the game some more. Even if I want to use a lot of station based services like manufacturing or markets then ambulation is still not adding a lot of value to my play time. Stuff that breaks up and slows down the bits I logged in to do is bad in my book. Unless Ambulation in and of itself brings tangible benefits or allows me to do things that aren't possible in any other way, I'd rather keep my docking bay and panel full of buttons thanks.

[Viin]

Didn't they come out with a stat that most folks online were docked 90% of the time or something like that?

I could see why they are interested in making the 'docked' portion of the game more interesting because of that, but they really need to weed out the ones that are AFK.

[Drugstore Space Cowboy]

My problem with Ambulation is that docking is mostly interstitial bits. I want to dock, click some buttons to get all the crap I docked for done then undock and play the game some more. Even if I want to use a lot of station based services like manufacturing or markets then ambulation is still not adding a lot of value to my play time. Stuff that breaks up and slows down the bits I logged in to do is bad in my book. Unless Ambulation in and of itself brings tangible benefits or allows me to do things that aren't possible in any other way, I'd rather keep my docking bay and panel full of buttons thanks.

This has been said time and time again from the beginning: Ambulation will not replace the standard docking interface, merely offer an alternative "with graphical and social perks," and maybe a couple gameplay benefits like the map rooms for Alliances. You can play the game just as you were without ever setting a pixelated foot in a station.

[Nevermore]

Hell, they aren't even giving us skinnable ships and displayed Corp/Alliance symbols, which would be equally cosmetic and a hell of a lot easier. 

But that would melt your computer when you jump into Jita.

[dwindlehop]

I'm holding my breath waiting for two updates:

Next hardware upgrade for TQ.
Splitting one system across multiple nodes.

[Quinton]

So if you don't want to, don't get out of your ship.  Hell, rat solidly for a few months, get into a mothership, and don't even dock!

Docking is for carebears!  Boycott Stations!

[Phildo]

Actually, now that I think about it... I've spent the last few days holed up dangerously inside a AAA station.  It would be awesome to ambulate around and grief some people while I'm stuck there.

[lac]

Dear CCP,

I file this petition because the same character has been sitting on the mailbox, rendering it inaccessible, ever since we conquered this station.

Please remove him
Kind regards,
Вьетнам

[lac]

Concept Art

[Jayce]

"We can take EVE anywhere"

But should you?

[Predator Irl]

I think its a great idea and don't really see why there are so much complaints about it. Yes Eve still has other flaws which need to be addressed, but show me a game that doesn't! There is always going to be something in Eve that someone will say, "well that needs to be fixed". So do they just keep chasing the same issues and never go forward with development?

I think it will open up the game more to people, and could possibly help with diplomacy if you can walk into stations and talk to people. It may also attract more players to the game that otherwise don't see the attraction. From the artwork, I think it looks very promising. I know I would have welcomed it from out time holed up in FAT, thats for sure.

[kildorn]

Diplomacy wouldn't be helped much by ambulation, what are you going to do, send a diplomat into deep red space, avoid getting shot just to dock and say hi? Wouldn't mailing or convoing them be easier? Also, harder for scouts to know who all you are talking to?

It adds to the RP elements of the game. Gameplay, not really. This is some lead's pet project that he just really wants to do, and it's getting done instead of actual gameplay improvements, like completely overhauling the back end to handle the fleet battles the gameplay has dictated the players gravitate to.

If it takes nothing away from EVE, fine. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it's leeching resources, or at least freezing what the rest of the team can attack.

[Endie]

It adds to the RP elements of the game. Gameplay, not really. This is some lead's pet project that he just really wants to do, and it's getting done instead of actual gameplay improvements, like completely overhauling the back end to handle the fleet battles the gameplay has dictated the players gravitate to.

They're not going to get lag-free fleet battles any time soon, and the major determinant of that is not the server code, but the fact that you have a geometric progression of calculations and data as numbers increase.  To over-simplify, if ten per side means 100 arbitrary units of calculation, fifty per side means 2,500 such units of calculation and the current battles of 400 per side mean 160,000 units of calculation.  And this ignores the likelihood that the algorithms almost certainly don't scale even that well.

Far better to find other stuff for people to do (not that I am saying that this will be it, outside of Providence ) than simply building a new highways for people to immediately clog up with extra cars.  Get rid of lag in current fleet battles and I, personally, will simply dual-box another Rokh.

[Predator Irl]

Diplomacy wouldn't be helped much by ambulation, what are you going to do, send a diplomat into deep red space, avoid getting shot just to dock and say hi...

Diplomacy isn't restricted to reds, it could possibly help strengthen relations with neutral corps etc. by getting to know more people, wandering and chatting etc. It may not, but expanding social aspect will have some effect, who knows.

... and it's getting done instead of actual gameplay improvements, like completely overhauling the back end to handle the fleet battles the gameplay has dictated the players gravitate to.

Well this is true also, but again its not as black and white as that either. What happens when you make it possible for two 300 strong fleets to do battle in one system? Next time, they become two 400 man fleets... then 500... then people start whining about not being able to fight because of lag. On xbox live or PS3 you would be lucky to get 20 people in the one game at a time without lag, so I think CCP need a bit of slack on this one.

[Grand Design]

If you guys want to play dress up with your dollies while we play space ships, that's fine with me.

 

[Amarr HM]

Well I personally think a lot of people want to see the interface and usability improved before anything, it's on the CSMs next list I wonder where CCP will see it on their priority scale.

[Endie]

Well I personally think a lot of people want to see the interface and usability improved before anything, it's on the CSMs next list I wonder where CCP will see it on their priority scale.

CCP said that they had a team working on this several devblogs ago (just before the CMS kicked off, I think).

[lac]

The dev who is in charge of the UI thinks it sucks too, I wonder what they'll come up with.
Last I heard, they didn't want a wow/war customizable UI because it would increase the gap between noobs and experienced players (never mind the odd 60mil skillpoints :).

[Amarr HM]

Well I personally think a lot of people want to see the interface and usability improved before anything, it's on the CSMs next list I wonder where CCP will see it on their priority scale.

CCP said that they had a team working on this several devblogs ago (just before the CMS kicked off, I think).

Maybe they don't want to fix everything too fast and be out of a job
A concise list of possible changes here in the PDF link  http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=856936&page=1#5  , its being pushed by the CSM at the moment.

[ajax34i]

Last I heard, they didn't want a wow/war customizable UI because it would increase the gap between noobs and experienced players.

If they said that, they have it completely backwards.  Auctioneer, Deadly Boss Mods, Gatherer, Healerbot... most WoW mods are designed specifically to make encounters and the game EASIER so that even the most clueless noob can handle the most difficult fights.

Even what's available for EVE (EFT and EVEMON) make it so the 5-year expert who knows how to properly fit a nano-HAC and skill up his alts right, and the newbie who has no clue, both of them can have properly-fit ships and strong characters with a minimum of effort.

They got it completely backwards.

[lac]

If, IF ?

Since it's one of those things you've read somewhere and just assumed its true, I figured I'd see if I could dig something up

from some live dev blog transcript:

Will we get custom UI interfaces?
Fendahl: It's tricky as there are lots of pros and cons. Might give too much of an advantage to older players. Another issue is how much of the UI can be customised.

It has been in some dev blog before that quote but I couldn't find it.

[Jonas]

Its not immediately obvious to me why older players are advantaged with custom UI's?

(and btw 1st post, hello everyone  )

[eldaec]

My irritation with ambulation is it looks increasingly like a second consecutive zero content update for people in 0.0/alliances. And unlike FW this one isn't even attempting to address the newbie progression or any other problem or gap within EVE.

Ambulation is the best example ever of CCP's inability to prioritise shit that matters over shit that sounds fun for developers.

[Phildo]

How is it not going to affect 0.0/alliances?  Is ambulation an empire-only feature?

[eldaec]

Ambulation is content free for everyone, including those in 0.0. I don't mean that it is any more content-free for 0.0 than empire (though I suppose 0.0 does have far fewer stations), only that by the time ambulation arrives we'll have had over a year and despite plenty of navel gazing around POS and soveriegnty warfare, no apparent development in the 0.0 game.



I take all this back if the ambulation patch comes along with a meaningful update to internet spaceships. (Hah!)