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Author Topic: Digital Camera & Photoshop tips  (Read 293021 times)
Mosesandstick
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Reply #70 on: September 28, 2008, 06:38:18 AM

Anyone have any tips on indoor/dark photography (without flash)?

Inevitably I have to take pictures of something dark which means I'm usually using a full aperture with either a very high ISO (800/1600 on my D40) or a really slow shutter speed. I don't have a tripod and usually can't be arsed to set one up so using the slow shutter speed can completely kill some of my photos, but so can using a high ISO!
apocrypha
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Reply #71 on: September 28, 2008, 07:29:05 AM

Unfortunately there's no easy solution to that Mosesandstick.

You can practice hand-holding at slow shutter speeds (entirely possible to get shake-free at down to about 1/10 sec if you're really good) but of course that limits you to static subjects.

You can get a camera with really good high-ISO performance but you're talking about the Nikon D3/Canon 5D MkII end of the camera market for that kind of low light, i.e. several 1000's of £$. Small sensor cameras have high ISO settings just for giggles really. I don't know a single point-n-shoot with usable performance above ISO 400 and even that's pushing it often.

Really, flash can be a very good solution... but NOT on-camera flash. On-camera flash gives you flat lighting, harsh shadows, unflattering looks and is generally really nasty. Off-camera flash is something that involves learning a fair amount and getting some (potentially fairly cheap) specific gear, i.e. a manually-controllable flash and some way of firing it off-camera.

With a D40 you can get an SB600, 800 or 900 (I'd recommend the SB800, amazing flash and a lot cheaper than the new SB900) and fire it off-camera with the D40's built-in flash using Nikon's "creative lighting system" (CLS) which saves you spending money on wireless flash triggers. One flash can be used in so many ways that once you start experimenting and learning about flash lighting you'll wonder how you ever managed before with just on-camera flash :)

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Salamok
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Reply #72 on: September 28, 2008, 08:47:03 AM

another solution would be using a big ass lens.  but this is generally the most expensive option.
JWIV
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Reply #73 on: September 28, 2008, 09:10:26 AM

Anyone have any tips on indoor/dark photography (without flash)?

Inevitably I have to take pictures of something dark which means I'm usually using a full aperture with either a very high ISO (800/1600 on my D40) or a really slow shutter speed. I don't have a tripod and usually can't be arsed to set one up so using the slow shutter speed can completely kill some of my photos, but so can using a high ISO!

The usual cheap answer to this is the manual focus (on the D40) 50mm 1.8 prime.  Or for a few hundred more the 1.4mm which will do even better. It's not perfect, but good glass can help you gain some shutter speed which can make all the difference in the world.
apocrypha
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Reply #74 on: September 28, 2008, 10:00:11 AM

Yeah, nice fast lenses can help too, good point guys :)

Remember though that shooting at such wide apertures will give you very shallow depth of field, which can be it's own problem. Give me a nice white ceiling, 2 flashes at 1/4 power up in opposite corners of almost any room smaller than a football field and I'll happily snap away at f5.6-8/iso400 with a huge zone of bi-directional, soft light that you just can't hide from :p

Yeah yeah, I know, I'm a strobe-whore  awesome, for real

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #75 on: September 28, 2008, 10:54:41 AM

*chuckles*.

I forgot to mention I'm still a student. It's ok.. I'll get my financial whore of a brother to pay for the expensive stuff Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?.

You guys got any general tips for learning to use the good old DSLR? I'm doing a physics degree so the optics and the tech stuff comes easily to me ;), the art side is a bit difficult. Practice makes perfect?
NiX
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Reply #76 on: September 28, 2008, 05:52:27 PM

Art is what you make of it. Just go nuts and find your niche.
JWIV
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Reply #77 on: September 28, 2008, 06:12:36 PM

Yeah, nice fast lenses can help too, good point guys :)

Remember though that shooting at such wide apertures will give you very shallow depth of field, which can be it's own problem. Give me a nice white ceiling, 2 flashes at 1/4 power up in opposite corners of almost any room smaller than a football field and I'll happily snap away at f5.6-8/iso400 with a huge zone of bi-directional, soft light that you just can't hide from :p

Yeah yeah, I know, I'm a strobe-whore  awesome, for real

I really do want to buy a flash at some point.   My hatred of flash photography absolutely stems from the lack of a proper off camera flash, so I've instead had to spend a lot of time learning how to breathe and what does and doesn't work in  poor lighting.    Sounds like apoc is at least doing the sane and proper use of flash - bouncing it and using it to fill the shadow as opposed to producing 100 perfectly exposed completely flat photos.   

Poor lighting and bad shutter speed will give you blurry and underexposed photographs.

Bad use of flash will give you blown out backgrounds and awful flat foregrounds.     

I was running around an indoor sporting event at the beginning of summer with my puny little D40 and no flash.  There were guys there staking out  large swaths of track and hanging multiple flashes to be triggered by their D80's or the like.  But they never took the time to do some practice shots, or bounced the flash or anything else, so when they posted their pictures, they were all uniformly flat and awful.

Good gear helps, but technique makes or breaks it.
apocrypha
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Reply #78 on: September 29, 2008, 01:03:09 AM

Good gear helps, but technique makes or breaks it.


Amen to that 1000 times over! I've got access to a huge amount of gear because I do some freelancing for a local commercial studio and they're really cool about letting me borrow stuff. And I've taken a whole lot of really crappy photos with awesomely expensive gear :D  I've also got a few photos I really like taken with old, cheap and crap gear.

As for composition and stuff, yeah, just practice and find what you like. Learning from other people is great too - there's so many fantastic photographers out there and you can get a million ideas from them whether you're trying to make art, take great family snaps or do commercial work but you gotta just takes loads yourself :)

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Bunk
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Reply #79 on: September 29, 2008, 06:10:00 AM

*chuckles*.

I forgot to mention I'm still a student. It's ok.. I'll get my financial whore of a brother to pay for the expensive stuff Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?.

You guys got any general tips for learning to use the good old DSLR? I'm doing a physics degree so the optics and the tech stuff comes easily to me ;), the art side is a bit difficult. Practice makes perfect?

As for staying cheap, the 50mm 1.8 prime mentioned above is a great option. I picked mine up for just over $100. As long as you aren't worried about the background being a giant blur, it works great in lowlight situations.

My best advise on the art and composition side, is to practice by trying to replicate someone else's work - especially regarding shooting people.

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Sky
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Reply #80 on: September 29, 2008, 07:01:52 AM

practice by trying to replicate someone else's work - especially regarding shooting people.
awesome, for real
Bunk
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Reply #81 on: September 29, 2008, 10:50:21 AM

I am serious, other than the fact that my quote sounds like I'm suggesting duplicating Lee Harvey Oswald.

Understanding what makes a good picture often comes out of practicing the technical aspects. For example, if you see a portrait with really stunning lighting and shadows, trying to replicate the shot will teach you a ton about how lighting works in the shot, composition, etc.

Of course you should be out there doing your own thing, but using other peoples' work to help you learn is just smart.

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eldaec
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Reply #82 on: October 21, 2008, 06:34:18 AM

Anyone have any tips on indoor/dark photography (without flash)?

Image stablizer lens.

Use timer mode.
Carry a beanbag to use as a makeshit tripod.
Big Aperture.
Camera that can shoot iso 1600 and not look like shit.
Wear a beret and wander about claiming that blur/soft focus is 'arty'.

IMAGE STABLIZER LENS.


__________


In other news, I'm rebuilding the PC and considering whether to install different RAW processing software.

I've used breezebrowser for a while, and not had any complaints, but recommendations are welcome.

http://www.breezesys.com/

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apocrypha
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Reply #83 on: October 22, 2008, 08:55:12 AM

In other news, I'm rebuilding the PC and considering whether to install different RAW processing software.

I've used breezebrowser for a while, and not had any complaints, but recommendations are welcome.

http://www.breezesys.com/


I've always just used Adobe Camera RAW with Photoshop/Bridge, never had any problems. Edit: I also use Phase One Capture One in some situations because the workflow of it is so nice - it's great for location shooting direct to a laptop, but don't bother with it on a PC at all, it's just too slow on anything other than a Mac.

Edit: As far as I know, using ACR is also the only way to do zero-slider colour management and calibration, but that's just me being photonerdy.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:51:11 PM by apocrypha »

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Miguel
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कुशल


Reply #84 on: October 22, 2008, 11:43:22 AM

I have a few basic questions.

I just got a new Canon lens for my Rebel XT...it's a 50mm prime at f1.4.

So if I understand correctly, shooting at f1.4 means the aperture opens very wide, meaning that I can use a very fast shutter speed to let in the same amount of light as compared to shooting at a larger fstop and a slower shutter speed.  This is why they call this called a 'fast' lens, correct?  I do notice that when shooting at f2.0, I get much clearer pictures due to the faster shutter speed as opposed to the crappy kit lens, which only goes down to f3.5ish.  I also find with this lens that I don't need the flash except when it's *really* dark, especially at low fstops.

So the only trade-off would be depth of field?  So as I shoot from f1.4 to smaller apertures, I need to make the shutter speed slower in order to compensate for light, but also my depth of field increases?   

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Trippy
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Reply #85 on: October 22, 2008, 10:31:50 PM

Yes (to all your questions).

And grats on your lens. I have a 50mm f1.4 on my ancient Canon AE-1 I loved that lens back when I was shooting film.
apocrypha
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Reply #86 on: October 22, 2008, 10:47:35 PM

Depth of field won't be the only trade-off, you also tend to lose sharpness at the edges at such low apertures. However, this will be offset by the fact that a fast prime lens like that will have much better optics than a variable-aperture zoom anyway, so don't worry about it :)  I've got a Sigma 30mm f1.4 that I love, great lenses.

At f1.4 your dof will be *very* shallow however - you'll need to pay close attention to exactly where you (or your camera) is focusing. Go for the eyes Boo! :P

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Miguel
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Reply #87 on: October 23, 2008, 12:56:15 AM

Quote
At f1.4 your dof will be *very* shallow however - you'll need to pay close attention to exactly where you (or your camera) is focusing. Go for the eyes Boo! :P

Yes I learned this the hard way when shooting pics of my newborn twin son and daughter.  If they were laying next to each other, and I was shooting at f1.8, I found that I could not focus on both at the same time even though they were laying only a few inches apart.  Which is actually kind of cool, since you can put one face in focus and the other slightly blurred.

In addition to the 50mm f1.4 prime, I also picked up a Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM.  Although to be honest, my wife and I love this prime lens so much it hasn't been removed from the camera yet!

This is what I really want:

[drool]
Canon EOS 5D Mark II
[/drool]


“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
apocrypha
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Reply #88 on: October 23, 2008, 01:12:41 AM

This is what I really want:

[drool]
Canon EOS 5D Mark II
[/drool]

Haha yeah, that looks like an awesome bit of kit :)  I've been jonesing after a D3 for a while now but I'll see what Nikon throw out in response to the 5D MkII in 6 months time.

Quick note about the Canon lenses - the L series ones (with a red ring round them) are simply amazing lenses. I've played with a 70-200 2.8 L on a 5D for a bit and I've never seen a tele zoom with sharpness like that, just superb. Mucho £$ though :/

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Bunk
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Reply #89 on: October 23, 2008, 07:34:24 AM

Since the 2.8 was out of my price range, I picked up the 70-200 4.0 L Series a couple years ago, and I am very, very happy with it. Was around $800.00.

I've shot with my buddy's 2.8, and it's beautiful, but its mighty heavy for non-tripod use.

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nurtsi
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Reply #90 on: October 23, 2008, 12:41:03 PM

If any other folks are using Canons (I have the 400D, whatever that is called in the US) I can recommend a dirt cheap lens for it: the EF 50mm f/1.8 II. I paid 98 € for it last week (brand new) and it freaking owns. Took a load of photos during last weekend and I can recommend it to anyone.

With the widest aperture, you can get good photos in very low-light environments (like candle light) just snapping handheld shots. The only trouble I had is because the depth of field with the widest aperture is really narrow, sometimes getting everything to stay focused is hard (like you focus on the tip of the nose and the eyes will get blurred). Of course this was my first time shooting with it, I'm sure it gets easier with practice.

Taking macro shots of food is cool as well since the depth of field is something like less than an inch. You can't really go wrong with this lens, I love it. Personally I hate flash and finally got a lens that allows me to take pictures in low-light.
Miguel
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Reply #91 on: October 23, 2008, 01:02:19 PM

Quote
the EF 50mm f/1.8 II

I had the hardest time choosing between the f1.4 and the f1.8.  I thought,  is one more fstop worth three times the price?

Other than the metal lens mount on the f1.4, and the 8 blade aperture (versus 5 blade on the f1.8), I don't see any differences spec-wise.  I am happy with the very solid construction of the f1.4 since we take this lens everywhere with us, and it goes in and out of the bag lots of times.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Bunk
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Reply #92 on: October 23, 2008, 01:44:31 PM

I love my 1.8
This shot was a real challenge to get all of her face in to focus, but I love the effect it had on the background.


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apocrypha
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Reply #93 on: October 23, 2008, 11:28:09 PM

I love my 1.8
This shot was a real challenge to get all of her face in to focus, but I love the effect it had on the background.
Nice shot Bunk, you got a reflector low front right there? I'm guessing that wasn't wide open too, f4-ish? And yeah, very nice bokeh :)

Personally I hate flash
Do you hate flash full stop or just hate horrible, on-camera flash? Off-camera and controlled it's just another light source, but one you can do so much with. Sorry, strobe-geek. Can't help myself :D

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
schild
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WWW
Reply #94 on: October 23, 2008, 11:34:35 PM

schild
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WWW
Reply #95 on: October 23, 2008, 11:35:59 PM

Yes, I realize the above post not only makes me a horrible person but kind of creepy. But hell, why not. Internets.

Edit: I can't even type correctly tonight.
schild
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Reply #96 on: October 24, 2008, 12:07:06 AM

Jesus, I just noticed that I asked sex and location also.

You know what. Just ignore me. It's bed time.
nurtsi
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Reply #97 on: October 24, 2008, 12:26:58 AM

Do you hate flash full stop or just hate horrible, on-camera flash? Off-camera and controlled it's just another light source, but one you can do so much with. Sorry, strobe-geek. Can't help myself :D

Well, I've only got experience with on-camera flashes. I'm on my first DSLR and haven't even thought about getting external flashes. I can't really think of a situation where I would want to use external flash other than when shooting fast-moving sports. My problem with on-camera flash is the standard "deer in headlights": you lose the colors, get reflections and burn the image.

Once when I was mountain biking my buddy and I went to shoot pictures of the other guys riding. It was getting dark already and on my shots the riders were practically all blurred to hell (bikes move pretty fast). My friend on the other hand had two external flashes that had some sort of radio trigger on them (there was no wires to the flashes but they fired when he took a shot). He planted those things in the ground and got some really cool (and sharp) images. That's probably the only time I've really seen flashes being useful.
apocrypha
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Reply #98 on: October 24, 2008, 01:15:52 AM

Yup, that's exactly what I mean. Off-camera flash is so awesome once you start thinking about photography in terms of light. Available light becomes just another light you can use - flash becomes something you can shape and control available light with. There's lots of ways of triggering off-camera flashes too. Your buddy might have been using PocketWizards (gold standard of triggers, v expensive though) or any one of a number of cheaper alternatives. You can get some pretty decent radio triggers (Cactus Infinity V2's are one example) for under US$40.

On-camera light has it's place, for sure, and I'm just starting to experiment with using it as fill light, to lift shadows a fraction and sculpt a shot a bit more, but full-on, TTL, on-axis flash as main light is... ugh.

Edit: 10 min example of light control with a single flash. These aren't meant to show that flash makes any picture better, just that it gives you more control.

1: No flash, exposed for some detail outside. Me = v dark, outside = OK.


2: No flash, exposed for detail inside. Me = better, outside now v overexposed.


3: Flash bounced into opposite corner of room. Good detail on both me and the outside.


4: Flash turned up full, shutter speed dropped to make outside look lots darker.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 03:02:09 AM by apocrypha »

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JWIV
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Reply #99 on: October 24, 2008, 05:16:56 AM

 When I actually get around to buying an off camera flash, I'm going to take a month sabbatical and got stalk apocrypha and make him teach me how to use it. 
Bunk
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Reply #100 on: October 24, 2008, 06:07:35 AM

Nice sample there Apoc. I love my off camera speedlight. I love my strobes more, but they don't fit in the side of my bag like the speedlight does.

And yes Schild most of the models we used when I was taking classes, including the one above, were generally  this guy looks legit

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Miguel
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Reply #101 on: October 24, 2008, 02:49:46 PM

Quote
...but I love the effect it had on the background...

There was a background? ;)

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stray
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Reply #102 on: October 25, 2008, 07:30:34 AM

Cool stuff guys.  smiley

I really need a good camera still. Really wish I could learn/experiment more right now.
nurtsi
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Reply #103 on: October 25, 2008, 09:59:29 AM

Those were good examples. I can see how flash is useful when you have time to setup your environment (like in a studio). Currently I'm more of an opportunistic photographer, I don't really plan my stuff before hand.

At the moment I get my kicks shooting people in normal situations. I don't ask them to pose or anything, I try to take pictures when the targets are unaware of it. It might be a bit awkward at first, but usually if you just shoot a lot people will soon pay no attention to you and you can capture people as they really are.

Although now that winter's approaching northern Europe, I've been toying with the idea of shooting the night sky. It can be pretty spectacular on the countryside on a cold, clear night. Anyone got tips/experience in shooting the milkyway and stars? I guess I need a sturdy tripod at least, but what kind of a lens would be suited for it?
apocrypha
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Reply #104 on: October 25, 2008, 10:35:32 AM

Yeah strobe is not really suited to street-photography and related styles (although it's not impossible). It's also not limited to studios - those 4 shots took me about 10 minutes from deciding to do it and posting them on Flickr. But yes, the dynamic is very different from run'n'gun photography.

Night sky shooting definitely needs a good tripod, but lens choice isn't your 2nd problem - the right lens is whatever lens suits the purpose of your shot. Do you want a wideangle landscape with stars whirling above it or do you want a closeup of the moon? Your 2nd problem is fixed shot or driven shot. Fixed means that the stars will make tracks in the sky around the Earth's orbit point, driven means you move the lens to follow the stars for clear shots of celestial objects. Your shutter speeds are going to be in the range that makes the Earth's rotation a serious factor :)

Edit: was thinking too and I reckon you'll want to be very careful with other light sources for night sky photos. No streetlights mainly, but any other light sources in your frame will be very difficult to balance with starlight. Clear, frosty nights camping in the mountains would be awesome :)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 11:15:48 AM by apocrypha »

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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