2008/2009 Football (Soccer) Thread

[Amarr HM]

Apparently this is what the Man U fans were singing for Park Ji-Sung (to the tune of Lord of the Dance).

Park! Park! Wherever you may be
You eat dogs in your home country
But it could be worse, you could be Scouse
Eating rats in your council house!

I only wish their emblematic tunes could be as imaginative.

[Tale]

a goal from Samuel is always worth it one of my fav strikers since 2002.

Yep, worth seeing.

[Amarr HM]

I actually don't mind United, Alex Ferguson has a warm spot in my heart because he strikes me as a euro Bear Bryant.

But I did have a rooting interest in them losing, and not as an ABU.

I was drawn to Spurs because of Jurgen Klinsmann and Kasey Keller back in the day. It's been an interesting ride. Much more insightful than hitching on the glory train. I'm not saying you did that. We all have our reasons.

Besides, They don't have to go to Japan to play in that stupid tourney and can focus on the league all the more. See? There's positives in everything.

Yeh I really feel your view was too skewed against United to see it was actually a poor game and a letdown for any impartial viewers, most of the people I spoke to today agreed it was a bit of a shit game but watching Barcelona somewhat made up for it. I'm fairly happy in some respects as it might force United to ship Tevez off and buy a decent replacement for Scholes, not a priority but I think Ribery would be a good addition too so we can stop playing Rooney out of position, it's pissing me off at this stage. Also I'm so buying a Xavi shirt I hope some of the sales go towards Unicef.

[sigil]

I actually don't mind United, Alex Ferguson has a warm spot in my heart because he strikes me as a euro Bear Bryant.

But I did have a rooting interest in them losing, and not as an ABU.

I was drawn to Spurs because of Jurgen Klinsmann and Kasey Keller back in the day. It's been an interesting ride. Much more insightful than hitching on the glory train. I'm not saying you did that. We all have our reasons.

Besides, They don't have to go to Japan to play in that stupid tourney and can focus on the league all the more. See? There's positives in everything.

Yeh I really feel your view was too skewed against United to see it was actually a poor game and a letdown for any impartial viewers, most of the people I spoke today agreed it was a bit of a shit game but watching Barcelona somewhat made up for it. I'm fairly happy in some respects as it might force United to ship Tevez off and buy a decent replacement for Scholes, not a priority but I think Ribery would be a good addition too so we can stop playing Rooney out of position, it's pissing me off at this stage. I'm so buying a Xavi shirt I hope some of the sales go towards Unicef, I actually would never wear the AIG shirt not even if you paid me.

See, I think the reason Man U looked like shit was due to several reasons, some self imposed, some not.  They were shocked at allowing a goal,  Darren Fletcher not being around to give Carrick support, and Sir Alex not throwing in enough (read any) new wrinkles into his attack. Eto'o and Messi Swap and Vidic doesn't look like he's knows where he's coming or going. Those are the main points, but it's more than just that.

Man U did not look like shit until they had to chase Barca. Remember the first nine minutes were all, and I mean ALL Man U. Eto's goal was the first real opportunity of the match for them. Then they had to press. Which meant they had to play more on Barca's terms. Once that happened, it became clear that they could not outperform them. Carrick was trying to make too many super passes to cut through the whole defence, Scholes was trying to find space behind because they could not handle the pressure of dealing with a pass around game with the ball at their feet against a much more technically skilled team. That's not a slam on Man U, they can handle just about anyone on the planet with power and teamwork. It just comes down to this fact. 

Man U simply was not as good as Barca.

I don't think United gave up. I don't think they stunk. I just don't think they were in a position to handle what was given them. A small difference, but important.


The only way Chelsea made it close was to not play, just park the bus and dig the bunker deeper. United could not do that, partly out of pride, partly out of only having one leg. It almost worked, though. If Ronaldo makes one of those kicks, Man U tighten up defense and in the more conservative play, they spot the things Barca were doing and compensate for them. Barca pings the ball around the penalty area but can't break through. Ballgame.

What's happened is Man U has been exposed as having a weakness. But it's not a weakness that anyone in the premiership will be able to exploit. And the ones who can exploit it need to have things go their way to use it. So, What's Sir Alex to do?

[Abagadro]

Excellent analysis sigil. Spot on.

[Amarr HM]

Yeh that's pretty much what I saw too but I could sum it up in one sentence, if you have the ball the other team can't score.

This is why players like Scholes and Xavi are solid gold (perhaps Essien but I hate Chelsea). The difference with these two at the moment to Alonso or say Fabregas (he should be doing this in a few years) is they also can control the tempo of the game and so confident are they in their ability to retain the ball they are always looking to pick it up and lay it off for every second they are on the pitch, that's their mentality they always make good decisions rarely give it away cheaply. This has a huge unseen effect as it dictates how the whole team plays, the defenders have someone they are confident in giving the ball to and they can ease into their passing game without resorting to longballs, the attacking players like Iniesta Ronaldo Giggs can make intelligent runs and play one twos off these guys, I like Iniesta but he wouldn't look half as good a player if he didn't play alongside Xavi trust me on that one.

[Amarr HM]

If I was Sir Alex I would be looking for this type of player as soon as possible cause we're fucked if he doesn't.

[HaemishM]

Was Yaya Toure playing last night? Because do not underestimate the confidence he brings to a guy like Xavi. He was IMO THE reason Spain won the Euro '08. He allows guys like Xavi and Iniesta to get forward as well as they do, because they know he'll be back there if they lose possession. It's why Liverpool is better when Mascherano AND Alonso are in the midfield behind Gerrard. Masch stops anything going past Alonso, who can then confidently feed the ball to Gerrard or the wings. Man. U. and Arsenal don't have that kind of a holding midfielder - neither Carrick nor Anderson can really do that job as well as say a Toure or a Mascherano and Fabregas doesn't really have that type of player behind him these days.

[Amarr HM]

Yaya played in defence but sometimes it looked like he was a midfielder such was the free reign Barcelona had in the centre of the park. Yeh it does help if you have both types of player for sure, but then there's the rare egg like Keane and Makelele that can do both jobs. Also it was Marcos Senna who was the playbreaker for Spain in Euro 08 that you're thinking of he's a top player that guy (Toure is an Ivorian), I was hoping United would buy him and Arshavin, imagine that for a midfield ;)

[sidereal]

See, I think the reason Man U looked like shit was due to several reasons, some self imposed, some not.  They were shocked at allowing a goal,  Darren Fletcher not being around to give Carrick support, and Sir Alex not throwing in enough (read any) new wrinkles into his attack. Eto'o and Messi Swap and Vidic doesn't look like he's knows where he's coming or going. Those are the main points, but it's more than just that.

Man U did not look like shit until they had to chase Barca. Remember the first nine minutes were all, and I mean ALL Man U. Eto's goal was the first real opportunity of the match for them. Then they had to press. Which meant they had to play more on Barca's terms. Once that happened, it became clear that they could not outperform them. Carrick was trying to make too many super passes to cut through the whole defence, Scholes was trying to find space behind because they could not handle the pressure of dealing with a pass around game with the ball at their feet against a much more technically skilled team. That's not a slam on Man U, they can handle just about anyone on the planet with power and teamwork. It just comes down to this fact. 

Man U simply was not as good as Barca.

That's true, but lots of not good teams look reasonable against good teams.  I mean Barcelona barely squeaked by Chelsea just a few weeks ago, and Man U are better than Chelsea.  I think they were rattled as hell. . a little bit before the first goal, but overwhelmingly so afterward.  A few things stood out to me.  First, Ronaldo was trying way too hard.  In the first half he took a shot every time he touched the ball as soon as he touched the ball (In the second half, he never touched the ball).  Look at this shot chart, and at the three furthest Man U shots.  WTF was he doing?  Either they thought it would be impossible to get some people in the box with the ball in there and the plan was to shoot from orbit or he was just being an idiot.  Second, their passing was absolutely atrocious.  The number of uncontested passes that went out of bounds or 20 yards beyond the target was incredible for football at that level.  I wish better stats on that kind of thing were kept, because I'd like to see the numbers.  But my jaw was hanging half the game watching Man U try to just pass the fucking ball to each other without shanking it.  The only explanation I have is nerves.  Or drugs.  Third, as others have said, their midfield was destroyed.  I thought the backline actually did well, all told.  We know Ronaldo was a long bomber, but nobody knows how Rooney was playing because he couldn't get the ball.  And that's why Tevez was so useless.  He's a poacher.  He needs someone to feed him.  Same with Berbatov.  Rooney's hit or miss.  Ronaldo's probably the best player on that squad to create scoring opportunities for himself dribbling it out of the midfield, and he fucked it by shooting from 40 yards out every time.

[sigil]

I'd accept nerves in the sense that Barca's pressure, especially by the forwards, threw off their balance and made them antsy.

Also, going back a bit and hopping over to MLS...

Bill Archer from bigsoccer came up with a pretty good solution to a number of issues with coaches in the nation and the league.

Make Sigi Schmidt US Nats coach,  make Tom Soehn his assistant. Move Bruce Arena back to DC. Move Preki to RBNY. Move Bradley back to Chivas. Send Osorio back on a boat to colombia. Make Klinsmann coach of the Galaxy. Peter Nowak can coach Philly.

IT HAS BEGUN!

[Amarr HM]

But my jaw was hanging half the game watching Man U try to just pass the fucking ball to each other without shanking it.  The only explanation I have is nerves.  Or drugs.  Third, as others have said, their midfield was destroyed. 

Nah Anderson and Carrick just aren't good enough at the highest level, Anderson has time to improve but I doubt he will ever cut it I mean a Brazilian midfielder that can't shoot I didn't think such a thing existed and Carrick unfortunately is just too inconsistent.

[Amarr HM]

[WayAbvPar]

The next useful performance I see out of Anderson will be his first. He has been pure crap every time I see him play. I think Carrick was missing Fletcher (who really came into his own this year).

[lamaros]

You must have missed his performances against Porto, Arsenal and the last few league games, in which he was close to the best player on the pitch.

Some of you seem to be forgetting the first few miniutes of the game, when Utd was on top and looked to have Barca rattled. If Ronaldo had hit one of his shots in then we'd probably be talking about a Utd victory now, not a Barca one. Early goals change games.

Having said that Utd was in no way set up to counter Barca once they went behind. I think they were thrown out and a bit poor from that point on, but I think that the team formation Ferguson had out there was a huge factor.

Giggs is not a CL quality mid, especially not at his age and against Barca, which have the best passing midfielders in the world, and because SAF developed an unhealthy fixation on playing defensive players on the wings. If you want to have a go at Anderson you have to also look at Giggs. How does a midfield of Anderson, Fletcher and Carrick boss games for a month, even against teams like Arsenal, and then fall apart when Giggs is there instead? Picking on Carrick and Anderson is not really the only thing to look at, they didn't have the support to play as well as they can.

Apart from that Ronaldo up front was a mistake again. It works against certain teams but Barca is not one of them. They pass the ball up the pitch and back, you're not really going to rely on long balls to Ronaldo running all out, are you? Somehow Ferguson seemed to think that would work... Ronaldo should have been on the wing, which was Barca's big weakness in this game, but Utd didn't go at it until the last 20 mins of the game. Berbatov up front (a guy who, unlike Tevez, Giggs, Anderson, Carrick, can actually hold the ball and keep possession), Rooney in behind him dropping back to clog the midfield (also able to hold the ball), with Either Park or Giggs on the other wing.

Rooney stranded on the wing in games like this is almost a crime. He's such a good player and yet is so reliant on others to let him have an influence if you don't play him more central.

Utd's midfield was destroyed by Barca's because they couldn't hold the ball, but when the only guys you have in the team who can hold the ball and pass together well are stranded up front (Ronaldo), on the wing (Rooney), or in defense (Ferdinand, Carrick) how the hell do you expect to get it through the gaping hole that is the midfield?

I thought it was a pretty boring game really. Though Utd were poor and Barca were good the goals for the most part were defensive mistakes (Vidic exposed when people run at him again.. caused by Iniestia being able to waltz past a midfield that didn't have Fletcher/Hargaves, and Evra with a horrible rushed miskick out of defense), not amazing pieces of attacking (Xavi and Iniestia's balls were great, and Messi's header superb, but nothing astounding) and after Barca went in front the game really lacked a lot of energy.

Would have been much better to see a game with Barca at full strength with Alves on the pitch. Maybe that would have showed them as a quality team, and maybe Utd would have responded to that and played a bit closer to the level they're capable of.

[WayAbvPar]

Caught Chivas USA v Chicago last night. What a debacle. 9 or 10 yellow cards, 1 red, 3 PKs, including one in the 5th minute of stoppage time to give Chicago the win. I loathe Chivas and was glad to see them lose, but that was among the worst calls I have ever seen. A defender leans slightly on Brian McBride as the ball goes 10 feet over his head, McBride goes down like a puppet whose strings were cut, and the referee hands the game to the Fire. I like and respect McBride for his ability and all he has done for the USMNT, but that sort of shit is just embarrassing and lessens the game.

[sigil]

It's no different than claiming pass interference in the end zone when you know darn well you were never going to catch the ball.

Most of those cards were legit though. This just in: Chivas is dirty as fuck.

[WayAbvPar]

Oh ya, definitely. It was a nasty game, and very entertaining for a mostly neutral fan. I just hate to see that shit get rewarded- just reinforces the behavior. Ideally there would be video review after each game, and any obvious dives would get awarded retroactive red cards and get to sit out their next match. Guess how many dives there would be after a few weeks of that?

[sigil]

Only the really good ones 


Columbus tomorrow for your boys. They've been flat this year, but I'd like to see what Schelotto does to the back line.

Houston plays TFC at home. Will be odd to see DeRo at Robinson in something other than the orange.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah Schelotto should have a field day. Hopefully KK can keep us in it. We may get Freddie  back, and I think Brad Evans is almost ready too, so the midfield won't be quite as FUBAR as last week. No Alonso will hurt though, especially as poorly as the back line has played.

[sigil]

Kaka to Real Madrid.

Barry Jumps from Villa to Citeh.

[HaemishM]

Kaka to Real Madrid.

Barry Jumps from Villa to Citeh.

Motherfucker. They wouldn't let Barry go for 15 million to Liverpool last year, now they let him go to City for FUCKING 12? ASSGOBLINS.

Also, Kaka to Real Madrid. Guess that means Ronaldo's staying at Man. U.

[Amarr HM]

I see Rangers did the double that's pretty depressing when added to the outlook for Uniteds midfield :(

[eldaec]

*plays for underachieving UEFA cup team with little to no hope of reaching CL or challenging for title*
*complains about underachievement*
*transfers to team that is not in Europe and likely to achieve only sightly less*
*gets pay increased to £80k/week*

*is Gareth Barry*



The reason the fee dropped to £12M is that Barry only has one year left on his contract, in 12 months he can walk for nothing.

[sigil]

I see Rangers did the double that's pretty depressing when added to the outlook for Uniteds midfield :(

Have a friend who is from Glasgow and bleeds blue. He's been fucking insufferable

[HaemishM]

So has anyone confirmed the Kaka to Madrid story? Apparently, he and his agent came out and said that it was a bogus story. It sounded fishy to get him for only 52 million since Villa has been touted as 100 million Euro buy and Kaka is at least on the same level as Villa & Ronaldo in terms of money to get him.

[sigil]

Looks like the bbc and everyone else under the sun is asking the same thing after running with it.

I think this happens, but I think the bargaining is no where close to being done after reading the denials this morning.

US at Costa Rica tonight. 9:30 eastern on ESPN2. They wisely moved it off of ESPN with a baseball game as the lead in. American league at that. Saprissa is a shit turf pitch and we've never won there.  If we do, that will turn more than a few heads. Costa Rica has an ungodly record in that place, so I'd be delighted with a draw and a healthy team for Saturday.

Confederations cup coming up in a couple of weeks.  US against Brazil, Italy and Egypt. A tougher draw, but I like the thought of this instead of say Iraq, South Africa and Spain.

[WayAbvPar]

I am interested to see the Confederations Cup. Over/under for Italian diving induced red cards is 4.5.

[sigil]

Confed cup is nice, but this is the meat and potatoes that makes the team better. Tonight's going to be a dogfight. That turf, that environment (as we start to enter Urine bomb and battery chucking nation territory) being offset by the fact the USA is superior in just about every position, but with no up front depth.

Man to key on is Brian Ching. If he can hold up the ball and draw a lot of fouls  successfully, we'll be in better shape. If he gets mauled and the ref says play on, well it's going to be like the old days... especially when we draw fouls for looking at the Ticos the wrong way.  Seriously, drawing here would be great. Winning, that would be fucking awesome. Losing 1-0 or 2-1 would not crush me, but we'd really need to get those points against Honduras, who really needs them too.

[Hoax]

     !!!                 

[sigil]

I wrote this off as soon as I saw the 4-3-3 with Ching out. So did Bob.

But ow, Damarcus Beasley at left back needs to be ended. Torres  is a good offensive player but got gobbled up on D.

Yeah, lots of     

If Bradley loses Saturday and stinks up the confed cup, I'd fully expect Sunnil to give Sigi a call.

[HaemishM]

Fucking ESPN SONS OF WHORES. Nice, change the channel you're playing the game on then don't bother to have the Tivo change as well. So I get 30 minutes of a blowout baseball game and 1 1/2 hours of Baseball Tonight/SportsCenter.

Fuckers.

[WayAbvPar]

Fucking ESPN SONS OF WHORES. Nice, change the channel you're playing the game on then don't bother to have the Tivo change as well. So I get 30 minutes of a blowout baseball game and 1 1/2 hours of Baseball Tonight/SportsCenter.

Fuckers.

I got nailed by the same fucking thing. I started watching my Recording at 7:17, realized they had swapped to 2, then turned on the live feed just in time to see Costa Rica's second goal. Jesus Christ the back end was just useless. The offense wasn't much better. Landon Donavan disappears for huge stretches of games, and something about Dempsey just seems like he doesn't fit in with the rest of the team's style. If they struggle with Honduras I will be officially worried. But not worried enough to give up Sigi! Hands off- we stole him from Columbus fair and square.

[sigil]

Twitter offically becaue useful for me as I got a tweet from US Soccer and that fat starfucker who runs DuNord saying the game had changed.

Haem, you missed nothing but utter fail. It was horrid.

If I see that sort of thing in the future, I'll send a message to you guys as well as Schild style BOLD TEXT post with the correct info.

Upon further reflection, man did we suck last night. Ghastly.

[Hoax]

The only good thing is the team is getting younger and once somebody stops trying to find superstar saviors in mediocre at best players we might be able to have an almost good enough to get out of group stage lineup.  People like Donovan and Dempsey aren't being held to task for their sucking nearly enough.  Dempsey especially that fucker is the American Anelka, a lazy sulky fuck who I forget is on the pitch for 60 minutes a game.

Its exciting though seeing these 20 somethings I've never heard of from the MLS each time I watch a game esp considering they aren't any kind of big step down from anyone else on the team.  Altidore really played a weak game, he was solid until he got caught up trying to draw a foul every time he touched the ball.  God we suck though is my overall impression, fucking suck.