ISK Making Alternatives

[Roberik Manders]

OK, I have a bit of a dilemma on my hands. Z-RFE3 currently sucks for ratting. It's getting more and more popular and the rats seem to be getting worse and despawning more than usual. Not to mention that it's it's starting to get to me, it's boring as hell.

I need another way to make ISK to either replace or (most likely) supplement my ratting. Howver, it can't be via an alt. I don't like alts, I don't use them, and I can't really afford to pay for two accounts anyway. I also don't want to take too much time out of my main to train another char.

So I'm wondering, what alternatives are there for me to make some ISK? I need real solutions that work, and I need something that will fetch equal or more ISK for time than ratting (I can make 30 mill a day quite ealsily if it's not too crowded) without too much skill training.


These are my current skills for your reference:

Roberik Manders

Attributes
Intelligence: 17.28
Perception: 20.52
Charisma:  9.72
Willpower: 17.28
Memory: 15.12

Corporation Management
Anchoring
Corporation Management
Total Skillpoints in Group: 5,658

Drones
Combat Drone Operation
Drone Interfacing
Drones
Gallente Drone Specialization
Heavy Drone Operation
Scout Drone Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 2,335,060

Electronics
Cloaking
Electronic Warfare
Electronics
Electronics Upgrades
Long Range Targeting
Propulsion Jamming
Sensor Linking
Signature Analysis
Survey
Targeting
Weapon Disruption
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,281,293

Engineering
Energy Emission Systems
Energy Grid Upgrades
Energy Management
Energy Systems Operation
Engineering
Shield Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 469,476

Gunnery
Advanced Weapon Upgrades
Controlled Bursts
Gunnery
Large Energy Turret
Large Hybrid Turret
Medium Energy Turret
Medium Hybrid Turret
Medium Pulse Laser Specialization
Motion Prediction
Rapid Firing
Sharpshooter
Small Energy Turret
Small Hybrid Turret
Small Projectile Turret
Small Pulse Laser Specialization
Surgical Strike
Trajectory Analysis
Weapon Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 4,940,000

Industry
Mining
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Learning
Analytical Mind
Clarity
Eidetic Memory
Empathy
Focus
Instant Recall
Iron Will
Learning
Logic
Spatial Awareness
Total Skillpoints in Group: 777,335

Mechanic
Armor Rigging
EM Armor Compensation
Explosive Armor Compensation
Hull Upgrades
Jury Rigging
Kinetic Armor Compensation
Launcher Rigging
Mechanic
Repair Systems
Salvaging
Thermic Armor Compensation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 899,000

Missile Launcher Operation
Cruise Missiles
Heavy Missiles
Missile Launcher Operation
Rapid Launch
Standard Missiles
Warhead Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 950,825

Navigation
Afterburner
High Speed Maneuvering
Navigation
Warp Drive Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 362,040

Science
Cybernetics
Science
Total Skillpoints in Group: 256,750

Social
Social
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Spaceship Command
Amarr Battleship
Amarr Cruiser
Amarr Frigate
Amarr Industrial
Battlecruisers
Covert Ops
Destroyers
Electronic Attack Ships
Gallente Battleship
Gallente Cruiser
Gallente Frigate
Spaceship Command
Total Skillpoints in Group: 2,793,659

Trade
Contracting
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Total Skillpoints: 15,071,846
Total Number of Skills: 91

Skills at Level 1: 11
Skills at Level 2: 4
Skills at Level 3: 15
Skills at Level 4: 42
Skills at Level 5: 19


Thanks. :)

[Phred]

I guess you've looked at and dismissed for some reason, datacores and missioning.

[Thrawn]

Slayerik telling you suicide gank in 5.....4....3.....2....(sorry, it's become required posting in any threads talking about isk)

[apocrypha]

I can make 30 mill a day

You can make 30 mil an hour running level 4 missions in empire. Get yourself a jumpclone, once a week jump back into empire for a day (24 hour cooldown on JC use) and run a few level 4 missions. Will pay for the rest of the week's pvp'ing.

Actually 30 mil/hour might be overstating the case a bit with just one character, but you should hit 20 mil/hr easy. Dominixes are very good missioning ships once you get completely au fait with how to control drone agro in missions.

[Phildo]

L4 zoar and sons... Quality 20 agent in a .1 sec system.  Some of the best legitimate money in the game.  This is why I started The Money Thread a few months ago, btw.

[ajax34i]

You can make 30 mil an hour running level 4 missions in empire.

Provided that you have the faction standings required for access to a level 4 agent.  They're not trivially easy to get.

[Ninja Sportz]

L4 zoar and sons... Quality 20 agent in a .1 sec system.  Some of the best legitimate money in the game.  This is why I started The Money Thread a few months ago, btw.

im going to have to come along with you at some point so i can steal some standings so the grind wont take as long

[Phred]

You can make 30 mil an hour running level 4 missions in empire.

Provided that you have the faction standings required for access to a level 4 agent.  They're not trivially easy to get.

If trivial is less than an hour I guess so. Took me maybe 3 days to get up to using the L3Q20 agent in Zeriert and another 1-2 to use the 4.

[Roberik Manders]

I barely have any standings for any missioning agents, though I'll definately look into it. If I can come missioning with someone for a few days to get the standings up quicker this may make a viable alternative.

[Amarr HM]

What no Slay? Rob you should do some suicide ganking I have enough ISK now I don't have to worry about ratting or ISK making for a good while.

[lac]

You do need multiple (3?) accounts to do solo suicide ganks, no? Scanner, ganker and a scooper.
So I guess it isn't for everyone.

For cash I rat or mission, it agrees with my casual playstyle. Especially ratting, when I want to unwind a bit in the evenings, ratting for an hour or so soothes my soul. I haven't seen a faction spawn outside of the exploration content but I have made a lot of cash even when I have to afk every 15 minutes or so to break up a poodle/toddler fight (they both are quite vicious fuckers, believe me).

I've spend a lot of skillpoints towards exploration, believing it would be a lucrative and casual friendly undertaking. I found out, while it was lucrative, it wasn't casual friendly. Scanning for a good sig for 3 hours isn't that cool when you know you'll still need a couple of hours to clear it out in a single battleship and if you don't clear it out somebody else will before you finish your next workday.

I did make about a billion doing a couple l3 complexes in lonetrek through exploration, so I guess it isn't that bad if you manage to catch the good stuff.
I also made a good deal of isk through a combat site that escalated all the way through to the 30mil faction boss and the accompanying loot.
All that was in high sec. While I haven't been really looking I have done two radar (hacking) sites in 0.0, both were just as loot broken as their counterparts in empire. The other kind of encounters are obviously more rewarding, although the very lucrative escalating combat sites tend to take you on a tour through enemy territory.

[Thrawn]

I make most of my isk through ratting, but I also have my alt follow me around and I loot/salvage/sell absolutely everything that drops short of cap booster charges.

[Roberik Manders]

Yeh, I've only just started looting again. I'm only collecting the battleship loot, to save time, and I'm filling my cans up pretty quick that way. i'm loooking at making a trip up every few days with just short of 10k m3 of loot per run. Should fetch me a nice sum I'm hoping.

I don't salavge atm, but I might train up my salvging skills and get a salvage ship so I can take a break in that if I get bored killing Sanshas. How much does salvage make on the market, anyway?

[eldaec]

How much does salvage make on the market, anyway?

In Z-RFE I find it runs between 50 and 75% of bounty value. So long as you are fitted with both a salavager and tractor beam, it is worth your time.

Basically watch for how many Melted Capacitor Consoles (250k), Armor Plates (130k), and Burned Logic Circuits (75k) you get, on average battleship rats probably drop 1 of each. Everything else the Sanshas drop is junk. I wouldn't worry about module loot except for modulated lasers and n-type hull upgrades.

[Slayerik]

He said he didn't wanna use another account :)

[Phildo]

I salvage every BS that dies within 20km of me and leave the rest for the scavengers.  And I only grab loot if it's worth over 200k or so (guns, armor plates, neuts)

[apocrypha]

Yeah if you're single-accounting then you need to tread the line between salvage & loot being worth the time and not. Phildo's rule of thumb there is a good one. 2 accounts = salvage & loot everything, it doesn't add to the mission time at all, plus you're missioning a lot faster anyway cos remote repping is a lot better than self-repping, means you can pack more gank and less tank :)

Standings for missioning don't take too long to get really. Last time I did it I found that running level 2's was the fastest way. I skipped level 3's entirely and went straight to 4's. You can plough through level 2's in no time at all - don't loot or salvage at all, just blast the mission objective and get outta there. Assault frigs are good for those (about all they're good for unfortunately).

[Endie]

As I said in the other thread, ninja rat in deep Catch, down towards FAT.  The truesec is far better, the belts clear of ratters, and the steady flow of friendly fleets going to FAT make it relatively safe so long as you watch local, fit a cloak and have safespots set up.  Plus, you are nearby for the daily ops that are running.

[Amarr HM]

I was ratting near Doril yesterday, Litom to be exact, one belt had 3 x 1.7 mil bounty BS and trusec of -0.02.

[Endie]

I was ratting near Doril yesterday, Litom to be exact, one belt had 3 x 1.7 mil bounty BS and trusec of -0.02.

I think that Curse is like Delve, isn't it, in that the truesec for ratting is effectively bugged to -1.00.  I could be wrong.  If it is, though, we should set TCF blue and move there 

[Jayce]

I was ratting near Doril yesterday, Litom to be exact, one belt had 3 x 1.7 mil bounty BS and trusec of -0.02.

I think that Curse is like Delve, isn't it, in that the truesec for ratting is effectively bugged to -1.00.  I could be wrong.  If it is, though, we should set TCF blue and move there 

I've seen rats like that on the gates, too.  I have been wondering why they are so nice.

The real question is whether TCF would set us blue.   


Regarding missioning:  I keep trying it again and not liking it.
1 - lowsec missioning is actually more dangerous than 0.0 ratting, given lowsec pirate types
2 - takes a solid day* to get set up with a ship, agent and jumpclone
3 - I always get distracted by something more interesting than killing the guy with the Quafe Ultra secret for the 12th time.
4 - the missions are frequently 1-2 jumps away, taking time away from actually making money and making #1 more of a factor
5 - depending on the agent, you might get some level of "drive to xyz stations" or "bring me 12 rocks" and those feel like a waste of time, though you can't dump it at the peril of your standing.



*"day", in my case, is defined as the 2-3 hours I get per session.

[Bungee]

LvL 4s in Lo-sec with a corp mate or two and sometimes even a ISK evening by the corp is both fun and effecient in ISK making as you have dedicated salvagers and looters and guys to keep the space free from scum. I really enjoy those sessions :)

Oh, ofc we are an empire space corp, so this makes organizing something like that easier I guess.

[Thrawn]

As I said in the other thread, ninja rat in deep Catch, down towards FAT.  The truesec is far better, the belts clear of ratters, and the steady flow of friendly fleets going to FAT make it relatively safe so long as you watch local, fit a cloak and have safespots set up.  Plus, you are nearby for the daily ops that are running.

Wow you make this sound very tempting.  Just throw a cloak on a Raven (for me at least), make sure to align to something as soon as I jump into belt and go nuts!

[Endie]

As I said in the other thread, ninja rat in deep Catch, down towards FAT.  The truesec is far better, the belts clear of ratters, and the steady flow of friendly fleets going to FAT make it relatively safe so long as you watch local, fit a cloak and have safespots set up.  Plus, you are nearby for the daily ops that are running.

Wow you make this sound very tempting.  Just throw a cloak on a Raven (for me at least), make sure to align to something as soon as I jump into belt and go nuts!

It's best done in a fast-aligning ship, but yep, it's pretty safe.  Jus be sure that you kill any scrambling frigates the second you jump in.

[Thrawn]

It's best done in a fast-aligning ship, but yep, it's pretty safe.  Jus be sure that you kill any scrambling frigates the second you jump in.

Suggestions for ships?  I'm very tempted to give this a try this weekend.  My only worry would be jumping out and avoiding reds so often that it kills my isk/hour.  Then of course one BS loss can set you way back in your profit. 

[Predator Irl]

It's best done in a fast-aligning ship, but yep, it's pretty safe.  Jus be sure that you kill any scrambling frigates the second you jump in.

Would a cerb have the dps (or tank) for this if fitted with a cloak?

[Viin]

You can also sell GTCs if you have extra cash. One 60 day will get you about 400mil for $35 (US).

[Thrawn]

Would a cerb have the dps (or tank) for this if fitted with a cloak?

Although using a Cerb/Raven to "ninja rat" could really suck do to the need to have a full hull of ammunition.  I'm guessing something with lasers or a drone boat would be better.  I bet an Ishtar would be great for ratting in hostile territory.....too bad I can't fly one. 

[dwindlehop]

Bah, a ratting Ishtar is just about impossible to catch in a belt. I should know; there was an PvE Ishtar I was trying to nail for weeks.   

Just make sure you recall drones before trouble arrives.

[Phildo]

Cusre has a LOT of stations in it.  So reloading fresh ammo isn't such a big deal, nor is getting safe when reds come through (which they will, frequently)

[Faust]

I'm having some severe issues with lag in PvP (barely capable laptop at the moment) and I find my play-time is an hour or two a day at very most.  That plus the upcoming nerf has got me thinking about going back to training T2-BS-type skills and aiming toward the L4 missions and letting that ride until boredom (and/or new computer) sets in.

[Predator Irl]

I'm having some severe issues with lag in PvP (barely capable laptop at the moment) and I find my play-time is an hour or two a day at very most.  That plus the upcoming nerf has got me thinking about going back to training T2-BS-type skills and aiming toward the L4 missions and letting that ride until boredom (and/or new computer) sets in.

Have you tried turning graphics to a minimum, removing all friendlies & drones from your overview and turning off brackets?

[MahrinSkel]

He's playing on a laptop in PvP.  When I did that, I found the laptop was unworkable for anything but a Covert Ops alt no matter how much I turned the graphics down.

--Dave

[Ninja Sportz]

im currently running EVE on a laptop and have for a year now.  I dont find it to horrible. I am also on wireless so....

[MahrinSkel]

Obviously it would depend on the laptop.  If you're talking about an AlienWare gaming laptop that has had full-fledged PC components wedged into a laptop format with fans that sound like a jet engine, it's completely different than if you're talking about some standard Dell or HP that throttles itself down to 20% clock rates when you run a 3D game more than 30 seconds.

--Dave