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Author Topic: PvP leveling on test server  (Read 8000 times)
Falconeer
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on: July 22, 2008, 04:12:50 AM

This is what is (almost) on test server right now.

PLease note "some" PVE XP for killing players too.

Quote
Default PvP Progression and Notoriety systems

Here is a brief explanation of the basics of the new PvP systems. Everything listed here may not be in the current build on Testlive, and does not necessarily reflect the final system.


PVP Levels and XP
* There are 10 PVP levels.
* All players are worth 100 PvP XP when killed by a similar level player.
* When you die in PvP, you lose PvP XP. The amount you lose is static, regardless of the level of player who killed you.
* Losing PVP XP will not de-level you in PvP level.
* In order to prevent abuse of the system, there is a limit set on how many times one player can gain or lose PvP XP from another.
* You gain normal PVE XP when you are involved in a PVP kill. If you or your team get credit for a PVP kill, then you gain a certain amount of PVE experience from that kill. You get 10% of the XP from that player as though he were a monster of that level. You always get a minimum of 1 xp.


PVP Items
You can buy PVP items with normal money (there is no special currency for PVP). However, your PvP level will have to meet the requirements (if any) on any items you wish to use.
* Items are not tradeable
* Sold by PvP vendors


Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.

* Criminals and Murderers will have an icon showing their status.
* Innocent : No one can perform hostile actions on you without being flagged as a Criminal.
* Criminal : Performing a hostile action on an Innocent player will flag you as a Criminal for 5 minutes. Any further Criminal acts during the 5 minute time will refresh your Criminal Status.
* Attacking Criminal players and/or killing them will not flag you as Criminal.
* Killing Criminal Players will not cause you to gain murder points.
* Murderer : Players who have attacked and killed innocent players enough times to generate 100 or more points will be flagged as Murderers. Killing lower level players (outside your XP range) will result in a larger penalty towards the murderer limit.
* Murder score is capped at 1750 points.
* For every other real time hour that passes, your murder score is reduced by 1 point.
* If you die in PvP and lose PvP XP, you will receive a 3 point reduction to your total murder score.
* Killing mobs which yield XP will reduce your murder score at a rate of 1 point per 1% of a level worth of XP. Completing quests for XP will NOT contribute.
* Murderers cannot access traders or vendors.
* Guard NPCs will attack murderers on sight.
* Dying while flagged as a murderer results in the following: a. 100% increased loss of PvP XP for the murder b. 100% increased gain of PvP XP for the person killing the murderer c. 100% increased chance of dropping an item.
* Any players interacting with a Criminal or Murderer (that includes grouping with them or trading with them) will be flagged as a Criminal.
* If you group with a Criminal or Murderer, you will be flagged as a Criminal for as long as you are in the team, and 5 minutes after the team disbands (or the Criminal/Murderer leaves the team).
* Any team member performing a criminal act will flag the entire team in the vicinity as a criminal.

Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1 on: July 22, 2008, 06:51:54 AM

That sounds awesome!

I didn't see mention of the item dropping however.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Opps, NVM, i see it.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 07:27:28 AM by Mrbloodworth »

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #2 on: July 22, 2008, 06:56:23 AM

 swamp poop That won't be easy to exploit.  Not at all.  Ohhhhh, I see.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #3 on: July 22, 2008, 07:22:44 AM

In what way?

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #4 on: July 22, 2008, 07:37:22 AM

"Hey, group with me!  I'll apprentice you!"  <higher level goes on a killing spree, making the lower level classed as a 'murderer'>

Two+ cooperating guilds (or large groups of players) can exploit the hell out of the PvP xp system.  Round robin fight club where everyone kills the other somewhat equal level guy until they no longer get xp, then they move to the next guy.  They just have to take turns getting their kills in.  Keep the levels equal, and noone gets flagged murderer.  This is what kills it:
Quote
"Losing PVP XP will not de-level you in PvP level"

Also
Quote
In order to prevent abuse of the system, there is a limit set on how many times one player can gain or lose PvP XP from another
Kill enough other people and it will reset.  I guarantee it.

People are just going to 'abuse' this the same way people did in SWG with the old fight clubs.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 07:40:52 AM

People have already suggested changes like you are talking about. I believe its why its on test, and not live.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Also, there is no way that would really work, and only the most nonfun players in the world would go about something like that. and IMO, if they do, more power to them. Because thats going to be grueling doing that from level 0-10, as the amount of XP required scales with level, just like any other XP system..

EDIT: also i do believe that last patch they removed the ability to attack Guildmates. This would mostlikely be why.

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #6 on: July 22, 2008, 07:49:16 AM

If it's made it this far, it's going out to live that way.  It may get changed later, but if they're on TC with it, yeah...It's done.

It's not about attacking guildmates.  It's about finding one or more other guild to cooperatively kill other like an assembly line.  And get points off of each other.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #7 on: July 22, 2008, 07:57:20 AM

If it's made it this far, it's going out to live that way.  It may get changed later, but if they're on TC with it, yeah...It's done.

It's not about attacking guildmates.  It's about finding one or more other guild to cooperatively kill other like an assembly line.  And get points off of each other.

This happens in every PvP game i can think of that has XP or progression tied to it even non mmo's. IF the players go out of their way to do it. I don't think it will be a big deal.

Thing is, your K:D will be fooked if you do this, kills and deaths in PvP are also tracked.

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 08:02:17 AM

You K:D would stay about even, maybe a bit on the plus side as long as you PvP'd outside of the fight club thing.

That said, having been testing the waters a bit, there's some insanely bad PvPers in AoC.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #9 on: July 22, 2008, 08:03:42 AM

You K:D would stay about even, maybe a bit on the plus side as long as you PvP'd outside of the fight club thing.

That said, having been testing the waters a bit, there's some insanely bad PvPers in AoC.

lol, yeah. there are.

Anyway, doesn't this almost word for word read like the UO system?

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #10 on: July 22, 2008, 08:06:17 AM

Don't remember.  It's been a long time since I had my UO shoes on.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #11 on: July 22, 2008, 09:19:28 AM

We need someone in pink to confirm.

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HaemishM
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Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 10:57:10 AM

Anyway, doesn't this almost word for word read like the UO system?

Yes. Or a good bit like the Outcasting sysetm Raph was originally talking about for SWG.

Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 03:04:04 PM

"Hey, group with me!  I'll apprentice you!"  <higher level goes on a killing spree, making the lower level classed as a 'murderer'>

No, the lower level becomes a criminal, drops from the group, and becomes an innocent 5 minutes later.

Quote
* Any players interacting with a Criminal or Murderer (that includes grouping with them or trading with them) will be flagged as a Criminal.
* If you group with a Criminal or Murderer, you will be flagged as a Criminal for as long as you are in the team, and 5 minutes after the team disbands (or the Criminal/Murderer leaves the team).
* Any team member performing a criminal act will flag the entire team in the vicinity as a criminal.

And while they can't eliminate gaming the system, if the limit to how many times you get credit for killing an individual is low and permanent, then that will certainly limit how much damage can be done that way.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Phunked
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Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 09:44:34 AM

Then the problem becomes that you can never get to the higher levels, because after a certain time you'll have exhausted all the experience you can get from the people in your level range and playtime. Permanent = you leech the 1000 exp you can get at level 20 and then ignore the person for the rest of your playtime because there's no point as you have no change of getting a reward.

Should at least make it reset every so often, which will inevitably cause the same sorts of exploits as people have mentioned.

Tier based pvp rewards are a stupid idea. Make pvp about the fun of the fight, not about the grind to get new shinies (WoW has this as well, with the endless bg farming).
sinij
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Reply #15 on: July 30, 2008, 04:54:53 PM

Quote
Notoriety System
A player is flagged in three different ways using this system: innocent, criminal, and murderer.

That worked so well for UO. Well seems we going to get 'classic UO' servers... in AoC? When house looting and bank thieves going to get patched in?

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« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 04:56:48 PM by sinij »

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Falconeer
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Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 03:02:00 PM

Official update fluff about the pvp-update:

Quote
PvP System Update
Many of you have been asking about the status of the PvP Update and when it will be made available on the live servers so I wanted to bring you all an update today on just that. With PvP combat being such an integral part of the game we feel it is important that the new PvP systems are as robust as possible when they are released to the live dimensions. That means a lot of testing to pull, prod and poke the new rulesets to see where they might not quite be up to the job. It is very important to us that the system works well to maximize people’s enjoyment and try to avoid having to change too many things after it goes live.

We are currently working through the intended progression for the new PvP system. How fast should it be for players to progress? At what levels should the rewards come? How long do we want it to take a player to get the first level? How long should it take to reach the maximum level and how much should we balance between the ‘hardcore’ player and the more casual player. This is being worked on through tests and through taking data from all the live servers and examining people’s PVP habits. It is important for us to be basing our progression decisions on real information and player feedback so that we don’t pitch it too high or too low.

So what’s currently being tested? One of the core feature of the PvP update is the new Notoriety System (formerly known as the “fugitive system”) which is being implemented to discourage some of the more anti-social elements of a PVP environment (Remember we want PVP to be as fun as possible for as many people as possible). This area obviously requires that we test a lot of very different scenarios to test the robustness of rules applied to give the system an automatic way to ‘detect’ activity directly and flag the player character according to predefined rules.

How many levels lower must a killed target be to justify it as a “lowbie kill” and add ‘murder points’ to the killers account? How do we handle the various situations where players may try and deliberately get someone flagged as a criminal through no fault of their own? Testing these scenarios takes a deal of time, and quite a lot of rulesets to be implemented in the code. While many are already in place we are working through and improving them and making sure they are as flexible as possible before they go on the live servers.

The same detailed testing has to be done with the new PvP gear as well given that those items can have a direct impact about a classes ability in PvP. We want these items to be a worthwhile addition to a player’s available choices, both as a reward for their hard work, and as a status symbol for those who reach the highest ranks.

These are just a few examples of topics that need to be tested and tweaked and then again be tested and maybe get tweaked some more. This process is obviously taking additional time as we want to ensure that the system will work as well as it can before we consider introducing it to the live servers. While we understand that everyone would love to have the new system as soon as possible, we also feel that it is important that system works on all the levels we would like it to before we release it to live. Yes, it has taken us longer than we first expected, but we hope everyone understands that the system will be better for the additional testing.

This being said, I invite everyone to come join us on our test servers and see for yourself how the PvP consequence system and other changes are shaping up. There are still a few things to tweak and adjust, especially as more players give their valuable feedback on it. The update is definitely getting closer and closer to being ready for live, and we really hope that everyone appreciates the reasons why we feel the extra time spent is worthwhile.
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« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 03:06:48 PM by Falconeer »

PandaSilvia
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Reply #17 on: August 08, 2008, 06:00:01 PM

I don't get why you would even need to get groups together to exploit xp when you could simply gank the lower level players and get the same xp (unless i overlooked something in the rules, in which case... my bad) :P

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