WoLK to feature Achievements.

[Paelos]

Talents in WoW suck. It all boils down to cookie-cutter bullshit anyway. I don't want to spec my characters. I want to let my gear decide my spec.

The LOTRO system in WoW would suck. Raiding games don't need more shit to do so that you can raid, they need less. The attunements system taught us that lesson because it sucked too, and they subsequently removed them.

[Tarami]

Talents in WoW suck. It all boils down to cookie-cutter bullshit anyway. I don't want to spec my characters. I want to let my gear decide my spec.

The LOTRO system in WoW would suck. Raiding games don't need more shit to do so that you can raid, they need less. The attunements system taught us that lesson because it sucked too, and they subsequently removed them.

So you need to grind gear for your spec? That's just a bizarre circular argument. Those sets will become cookie-cutter. There will be pieces you "need". Nothing will, essentially, change. Having it abstacted from the rest of the progression (how do I fight, not how well, which gear determines) just makes sense.

[Paelos]

You obviously don't understand WoW if getting gear sets seem like some crazy idea similar to specs.

WoW = gear. That's all there is to the game. You kill bosses to get better gear to kill more bosses who give you better gear.

Still, I can have a set of DPS or Tanking gear. Others can have sets of Healing or DPS gear. Some have all 3 sets. You know what keeps you from using them all effectively and interchangably? A dumbass spec system that locks you into one choice.

[Tarami]

For clarification; you mean you'd just rip away the talent trees and dump all the utility they allow for straight onto the classes?

[Paelos]

For clarification; you mean you'd just rip away the talent trees and dump all the utility they allow for straight onto the classes?

If you mean, give everyone the abilities, and get rid of them? Yeah, pretty much. All this would do would save the time and hassle it is to constantly respec characters in the middle of raids because one fight only needs one tank, and six healers, then the next fight needs 3 tanks and 8 healers.

If you wanted to make the trees about what kind of DPS you do, ok that's all well and good. However, making them about whether or not you can tank or heal? That's total bullshit.

[Tarami]

That's what I asked. I apologise if my language gets a little flowery at times.

Well, I agree, and still not. Talents are a very important part of the identity of a toon. Still, making non-hybrids into hybrids by choice was not a good move. Priests should always be great healers, warriors should always be great tanks. That far we agree. Removing talents altogether, however, I feel would be catastrophic for the sense of depth.

My initial response assumed the utility would somehow be migrated to the gear, rather than having it as talents, i.e. letting certain gear grant special abilities. That would change nothing.

[Phred]

When I played LotR for a month I just kept thinking those achievements are silly because I didn't go out of my way to get them.  They aren't achievements if everyone gets them from doing something normal.  That's just part of their leveling/character development system.  It isn't the same as the WoW system being proposed at all.  Not apples to apples here.

What was kind of worse was that they tied racial and class bonuses to the kill deed system too. So, if you wanted to ability to teleport back to your home city while you quested many miles away, you had no choice other than grind mobs for a few days. Same with the class skills. When I got bored with my first char, the main reason I didn't reroll was the thought of repeating deeds. Shudder.

[cevik]

What was kind of worse was that they tied racial and class bonuses to the kill deed system too. So, if you wanted to ability to teleport back to your home city while you quested many miles away, you had no choice other than grind mobs for a few days. Same with the class skills. When I got bored with my first char, the main reason I didn't reroll was the thought of repeating deeds. Shudder.

If we've learned anything from this thread it's that Deeds RULZEORZ and weren't grindy at all.

[Dren]

What was kind of worse was that they tied racial and class bonuses to the kill deed system too. So, if you wanted to ability to teleport back to your home city while you quested many miles away, you had no choice other than grind mobs for a few days. Same with the class skills. When I got bored with my first char, the main reason I didn't reroll was the thought of repeating deeds. Shudder.

If we've learned anything from this thread it's that Deeds RULZEORZ and weren't grindy at all.

Yeah, this just gets back to the age old argument about what "grindy" means.  I think we figured out this term is NOT universal.  As soon as an individual feels the activities to progress are unfun, it is grindy.  We all know how vague "fun" is!

[Mrbloodworth]

When I played LotR for a month I just kept thinking those achievements are silly because I didn't go out of my way to get them.  They aren't achievements if everyone gets them from doing something normal.  That's just part of their leveling/character development system.  It isn't the same as the WoW system being proposed at all.  Not apples to apples here.

What was kind of worse was that they tied racial and class bonuses to the kill deed system too. So, if you wanted to ability to teleport back to your home city while you quested many miles away, you had no choice other than grind mobs for a few days. Same with the class skills. When I got bored with my first char, the main reason I didn't reroll was the thought of repeating deeds. Shudder.

what?

Every one gets a hearth/map. You even get on for your house now.

[Phred]

When I played LotR for a month I just kept thinking those achievements are silly because I didn't go out of my way to get them.  They aren't achievements if everyone gets them from doing something normal.  That's just part of their leveling/character development system.  It isn't the same as the WoW system being proposed at all.  Not apples to apples here.

What was kind of worse was that they tied racial and class bonuses to the kill deed system too. So, if you wanted to ability to teleport back to your home city while you quested many miles away, you had no choice other than grind mobs for a few days. Same with the class skills. When I got bored with my first char, the main reason I didn't reroll was the thought of repeating deeds. Shudder.

what?

Every one gets a hearth/map. You even get on for your house now.

I left before housing. Have you got 1 char that hit L30? (Rhetorical question) Every char gets a racial trait that allows them to port to their home city at L30. If you had your map bound to where you were questing/leveling, the trip home was pretty well necessary if you wanted to sell stuff in the auction house, train or any of the other things you needed a city to accomplish. I think the deed for humans required 150 worg kills. Can't remember. At least there were worgs in north downs you could get some tiny bit of experience off. End game, trying to catch up on deeds I skipped, required endless hours of killing grey mobs, some with ridiculous spawn timers like the worms in trollshaws, can't remember their names offhand.

[Tarami]

I left before housing. Have you got 1 char that hit L30? (Rhetorical question) Every char gets a racial trait that allows them to port to their home city at L30. If you had your map bound to where you were questing/leveling, the trip home was pretty well necessary if you wanted to sell stuff in the auction house, train or any of the other things you needed a city to accomplish. I think the deed for humans required 150 worg kills. Can't remember. At least there were worgs in north downs you could get some tiny bit of experience off. End game, trying to catch up on deeds I skipped, required endless hours of killing grey mobs, some with ridiculous spawn timers like the worms in trollshaws, can't remember their names offhand.

The crawler deed in Trollshaws is notorious. ;-)