Buy Me a PC - now seeking new advice!

[rattran]

What OS are you using Rat? V-64? I remember you using Vista when we played Hellgate but I can't remember if you ran 32 or 64.

Vista x64. The only problem I've had with it were the previous Creative drivers. Though I did get a bsod last night from creative alchemy doing something naughty.

I'm really liking my ECS 8800 GT.  Seems like they may be getting hard to find, and it's "old" now, so maybe not worth it.  [Review]

Ask Schild about his issues with the 8800GT. Either he's got the worst luck in video cards EVAR, uses his computing machine as an easybake oven, or there's a problem across the whole current nvidia line. I'm not sure which, but give even odds to all three choices.

[Hoax]

I'm giving a hard look at the BFG GTX260 XXX they just reviewed over at [h], limetime warranty not voided by using after market cooler?  Within my price range (~$300) and good performance.

I have loved my ATI cards, and I want to go with them because I hate NV's current hide the price bullshit and the whole SLI chipset mobo deal but there just isn't an ATI currently that does what I want and I'm tired of waiting.

[schild]

I'm really liking my ECS 8800 GT.  Seems like they may be getting hard to find, and it's "old" now, so maybe not worth it.  Review]

Ask Schild about his issues with the 8800GT. Either he's got the worst luck in video cards EVAR, uses his computing machine as an easybake oven, or there's a problem across the whole current nvidia line. I'm not sure which, but give even odds to all three choices.

Oh man, oh man. To defend myself.

Short of my old computer which ran upwards of 7 years, I have never once had a problem with a graphics card. I have now had problems with an 8600GT and an 8800GT respectively.

You're mean 

[NiX]

Looking to upgrade mobo, cpu and ram. Not going to be doing any overclocking. Suggestions?

[Jimbo]

Damn it Hoax, now I have to think of ATI vs NV again!

ATI's choices were:
VisionTek
HIS with IceQ

and add either a BattleAxe or Artic Cooling w/fans but do those aftermarkets keep the air flow out of the case?

Now I have to think about:
XFX or
EVGA or
BFG

I could run the add on coolers too, but if the fan speed is adjusted and the stock fan vents out of the case, is it really a need to have an aftermarket cooler?

I'm stoked I waited to buy my video cards as now I have a lot of choices.

[schild]

Get the Visiontek 4870. Wait a year or two before trusting NVidia yet. All the good will they've gotten in the last many years got flushed down the toilet with the current problems.

[Stormwaltz]

ATI's choices were:
VisionTek

This is what I have. As you can see from my posts above, you will need more fan capacity. The on-board fan is sufficient when you override ATI's software, but it's surprisingly noisy. Otherwise, it's a pretty good card. LotRO has some particular problems, but that's because it generates such a high framerate inside small areas that the client thinks something is wrong. A simple .ini fix (which I haven't tried yet, playing other games) should be able to get it going.

[Trippy]

Looking to upgrade mobo, cpu and ram. Not going to be doing any overclocking. Suggestions?

What's your budget? (Why does nobody ever specify that...)

[Hoax]

Looking to upgrade mobo, cpu and ram. Not going to be doing any overclocking. Suggestions?

What are your current system specs?  Also budget..

Damn it Hoax, now I have to think of ATI vs NV again!

ATI's choices were:
VisionTek
HIS with IceQ

and add either a BattleAxe or Artic Cooling w/fans but do those aftermarkets keep the air flow out of the case?

Now I have to think about:
XFX or
EVGA or
BFG

I could run the add on coolers too, but if the fan speed is adjusted and the stock fan vents out of the case, is it really a need to have an aftermarket cooler?

I'm stoked I waited to buy my video cards as now I have a lot of choices.

Here's my pro v con list:

NV has been spoiled for too long by being top dog, they aren't any more reliable, if anything they are less reliable hardware wise.  I would have gone with the 4870 for sure if I could have gotten good rear exhaust cooling that isn't leaf blower noisy and doesn't void my warranty.

I'm 95% for sure pulling the trigger on the XFX GTX260 XXX I linked earlier tomorrow, the warranty is fucking amazing, all you have to do is register the card within 30 days of purchase date (transfers with one sale -double lifetime-, if you keep the stock cooler and dont fuck up a after market install they RMA np) and the fan has been reported as being much quieter stock.  My only concern is I've read a few reports of GTX's having issues with HDTV or somesuch but it doesn't seem widespread.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150310  -- $300 w/ a $30 MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129113 -- The Visiontek (lifetime warranty is why you go w/ Visiontek btw) is $270 w/out the MIR hassle.

But the performance scores are very closs, so the heat/noise issue sealed it for the GTX and I like ATI more then NV.  Always have.  I didn't have the driver issues with ATI and the only card that ever shitted out on me was the only Geforce card I ever bought.

I'm still struggling hard with mobo choice, also not sure if I want to pay for Vista (sigh) also wtf there are hella versions.

My mobo contenders currently are the Asus PQ5-E and the MSI Neo2-FR.  Gigabyte seems to neglect the fuck out of NB cooling compared to other makers, also their boards are fucking fugly.  I dont really like Asus as a company from way back, DFI sounds like their BIOS are really complex to work with and I've yet to hear anyone irl say anything nice about Biostar or DFI.

[NiX]

What's your budget? (Why does nobody ever specify that...)

$500

[Stormwaltz]

Update on the problems with my Visiontek HD 4870. For those of you looking to build a Vista-64 system, I strongly urge you to not to waste your money on an ATI card. The hardware itself seems decent. The Catalyst drivers are useless shit under 64-bit.

Those problems I had upthread with Dawn of War? They returned on the third mission of the campaign. A steady stream of Catalyst driver crashes, despite having 1) the most recent drivers, 2) plenty of power, 3) card temperature below 50C. When I was lucky enough to have the drivers recover after crashing, they would just crash again seconds later. I saw up to three in ten seconds of play.

A bleeding-edge video card should not struggle to run a three year-old game. The HD 4870 does.

[Tale]

More self-righteous self-quoting:

I think an 8800GT (or GTS 512Mb) is a good choice. People will rave on about how the latest ATI is better, or one 8800 G-something is better than the other, but the 8800s were the price-performance sweet spot for a while and it's sensible for a non-builder/non-upgrader to choose proven technology that already has significant market penetration. If I were you, for that reason I'd avoid the new ATIs at the moment.

[Engels]

More self-righteous self-quoting:

I think an 8800GT (or GTS 512Mb) is a good choice. People will rave on about how the latest ATI is better, or one 8800 G-something is better than the other, but the 8800s were the price-performance sweet spot for a while and it's sensible for a non-builder/non-upgrader to choose proven technology that already has significant market penetration. If I were you, for that reason I'd avoid the new ATIs at the moment.

except that the 8800s have progressively degrading heat issues unless you get after market cooling. ask schild about his experience. I'm keeping mine alive through manually tweaking my gpu fan and an aftermarket pci-slot cooler.

[rattran]

You may have something else wrong, as I have the same card and have had no issues with vista x64. Granted, I haven't run DoW (not a fan of RTS) but I've run everything from Diablo2 to Crysis, NWN2, AoC, TQ, RtCW, QW:ET, and other acronyms.

Stupid question, but are both power connectors plugged in and supplying at least 75w? ie. not on a shared 12v line on a small/modular psu? Otherwise I can only suggest trying to upgrade mobo drivers.
<edit> Seems older Netgear wireless drivers shit all over Catalyst drivers too, shouldn't be an issue for you, but it may help someone else's issue.

Update on the problems with my Visiontek HD 4870. For those of you looking to build a Vista-64 system, I strongly urge you to not to waste your money on an ATI card. The hardware itself seems decent. The Catalyst drivers are useless shit under 64-bit.

Those problems I had upthread with Dawn of War? They returned on the third mission of the campaign. A steady stream of Catalyst driver crashes, despite having 1) the most recent drivers, 2) plenty of power, 3) card temperature below 50C. When I was lucky enough to have the drivers recover after crashing, they would just crash again seconds later. I saw up to three in ten seconds of play.

A bleeding-edge video card should not struggle to run a three year-old game. The HD 4870 does.

[Tale]

except that the 8800s have progressively degrading heat issues unless you get after market cooling. ask schild about his experience. I'm keeping mine alive through manually tweaking my gpu fan and an aftermarket pci-slot cooler.

I've had a factory OC'd 8800 GTS 320Mb with stock cooler for about 18 months and it's perfectly happy so far. The Wikipedia version of the problem currently says:

"Some chips of these series (concretely those from G84 and G86) may suffer of an overheating problem. According to NVIDIA [35], this should only affect a few chips (and a software upgrade should solve the problem), whereas others [36] assert that all of the chips in these series are affected. CEO Jen-Hsun Huang and CFO Marvin Burkett have been lawsuit[37] on 09.Sept.2008 alleging that their knowledge on the flaw and their intend to hide it made NVIDIA lose a 31% on the stock markets[38]."

G84 and G86 are the 8300, 8400, 8500 and 8600 cards, not the 8800s.

[Engels]

There are reports that the 8800 GT had the defect as well, and all I can do is report how my particular card is behaving. I'm not 'doing it wrong'. Simpy type 8800gt overheating into Google and browse just about any forum you want. One can get an aftermarket cooler and/or apply your own thermal paste, which helps the problem, but out of the box, the cards are wack.

[rattran]

Plus the 8800gts 320 and the 8800gt have little in common. One is a G80, the other a G92. Apples and Eggplants.

[Yoshimaru]

So, my Dell Inspiron 1520, and more accurately the Nvidia Geforce Go 8600m GT card, decided to melt down last night 2 months after my warranty expired  .

I spent a couple of hours putting together a new rig but it's been a few years since I built my last computer and wanted to double check my selections with people in the know. Keep in mind I'm a poor college student so I tried to build a decent machine on a budget.

Monitor: Acer X193W+BD Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

RAM: CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5

HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

GPU: ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

PSU: Antec earthwatts EA500 500W ATX12V v2.0 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX

Subtotal:     $776.93

Any glaring problems with this? I made a conscious decision to choose an ATI card as I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the gigantic steaming dump Nvidia took in it. Twice. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Trippy]

That's one super-toasty CPU (it's 2x the Thermal Power Design of the other AMD dual-core CPUs ). You'll probably want a very good CPU cooling setup to keep that thing under control. Or you can just drop down to the 5600+.

AMD Dual-Core CPU comparison chart

Edit: fixed URL (damn bbcode)

[Yoshimaru]

Ya, I'll definitely drop down to something like this then, don't have the spare cash for too much extra cooling at the moment, luckily it's starting to cool down here in Arizona so that should help as well.

[JWIV]

The wife's computer is beginning to die and is made up with enough legacy crap that I'm not going to be cannibalizing a lot from it.

Full version - http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8005585

Short form: 
Q6600 w/ ASUS P5Q Pro
4 Gigs of G.Skill  DDR2 1066 RAM
Corsair 520 PSU
Radeon HD4850
ANTEC P182 Case

Sound card is right now a M-Audio 2496, but depending on what she actually needs for voice over  work, it's subject to change.

[Zane0]

I've had lots of problems with the 8800 series as well -- adaptor problems and rapid degredation in the first year with more than one card, an endless source of worry and irritation. ATI and 32-bit would be prudent for the safest low-stress approach these days IMO.

[rattran]

I'd suggest if she's going to use it for games, kick up to a 4870. If not, drop down to a 4650.
Otherwise, looks decent. Does she have a use for quad-core, or would a faster dual work? And I prefer Scythe fans for quiet and volume of air. The p182 is nice, but big. I've switched to Coolermaster cases myself, seem to be made a bit better than the last few Antecs, and are tailored a bit better for what they need to do. ie, I have an HAF for the gaming machine, and a Cosmos for the server so it's silent.

[JWIV]

I'd suggest if she's going to use it for games, kick up to a 4870. If not, drop down to a 4650.
Otherwise, looks decent. Does she have a use for quad-core, or would a faster dual work? And I prefer Scythe fans for quiet and volume of air. The p182 is nice, but big. I've switched to Coolermaster cases myself, seem to be made a bit better than the last few Antecs, and are tailored a bit better for what they need to do. ie, I have an HAF for the gaming machine, and a Cosmos for the server so it's silent.

Good point about the cores - looks like the E4400 is about 10 bucks cheaper than the Q6600 for a nice kick in performance, so that's definitely the way to go.

I was balking at the $250 pricetag on the Coolermaster Cosmos (I need this case to be as quiet as possible), but looks like they're on sale to $149 for a bit, so that helps.   Scythe's at 19.81db look like a big win.

Sadly, she does just enough gaming that if I try to go too budget on the card she's going to give me the evil eye.    Looking over the performance gains, I'm just not sure if going from a 4850 to a 4870 is worth the added $70 bucks.

[rattran]

I think it is, if she's running at high res. 1920x1200 I'd say definitely, maybe at 1650

[Engels]

The P182 is a good choice when runninga 4870 card, since these run hot. I also like the Coolmaster Cosmos S. I also love the Antec 900. For something smaller but well built I'd look at this Lian Li case.

[Tale]

I have a weird PC question - I'll ask it here rather than start a new thread.

I hit the power button to switch the PC on. The PC, it does noooothing. I wait. Sometimes a few seconds, sometimes 20 minutes, sometimes an hour, once apparently half a day.

Then the PC, when it feels like responding, finally responds to that push of the power button and springs to life. It continues to work flawlessly until I switch it off. Everything else about the PC is fine.

Reckon it's my power switch? My power supply? Motherboard, maybe. I want to do as little tinkering as possible, so I am asking for opinions instead :)

[Trippy]

Did you check the wire/connector connecting the power switch to the motherboard?