Dragon Age

[Tebonas]

You know, I never said anything about it. But now that you mention it, my Brother-In-Law is kind of screwed since I use Steam because he can't play the games I bought anymore after I finish them.

Thats more a rational thing than moral outrage, though. Swing and miss, Velorath.

[Lantyssa]

If game companies wanted to increase the number of buyers and cut out the middle-men, they should lower the prices of their games instead of continually raising them and adding first-day DLC.  The Steam holiday sale showed pretty well just how crazy people will get if something is priced reasonably.  (And if it's on a Steam-like service, isn't resellable as Tebonas points out.)

[Velorath]

Thats more a rational thing than moral outrage, though. Swing and miss, Velorath.

It's also unrelated to what was being discussed, but congrats on finding more things to bitch about.

[Tebonas]

You countered actual points against this kind of first day DLC with interpretations of other peoples motivations.

So maybe you should stop trolling the thread.

[Velorath]

You countered actual points against this kind of first day DLC with interpretations of other peoples motivations.

I was specifically countering the people who suddenly became concerned about the used game market.

The first day DLC stuff I think has been countered with a number of factual points that people will ignore in favor of continued bitching.

[BitWarrior]

I'm with Velorath on this one: people are bitching for the sake of bitching.

[Tebonas]

Then explain the advantage to the customer in this model.

[Velorath]

Then explain the advantage to the customer in this model.

Which model, the DLC model in general or the free DLC for new purchases model?

[BitWarrior]

Then explain the advantage to the customer in this model.

Explain how the world owes you this content.

[Tebonas]

Don't be daft, BitWarrior.

We are not talking about additional DLC here, nobody sane was bitching about that when Fallout did it (only about the shitty distribution system). We are talking about the fact that you could exactly SEE where they ripped out the content of the core game to repackage it. Thus giving us less value for the same money. Obviously and blatantly so.


I am talking about for-pay DLC on release, Velorath. Free DLC for new purchases might not be a bad idea to counter piracy (remember I buy almost exclusively steam, so I can't resell my games anyway. Other mileage may vary).

[Sky]

Where they obviously ripped out the content they couldn't finish by the time the publisher pushed out the already very-slipped game, which was polished off after the disc was mastered and sold for a small cost to defray they extra time/bandwidth/whatever?

Yeah, they should've waited a week for no other reason than calming the nerd panties.

[BitWarrior]

Don't be daft, BitWarrior.

We are not talking about additional DLC here, nobody sane was bitching about that when Fallout did it (only about the shitty distribution system). We are talking about the fact that you could exactly SEE where they ripped out the content of the core game to repackage it. Thus giving us less value for the same money. Obviously and blatantly so.


I am talking about for-pay DLC on release, Velorath. Free DLC for new purchases might not be a bad idea to counter piracy (remember I buy almost exclusively steam, so I can't resell my games anyway. Other mileage may vary).

Perhaps understanding the release timelime might help you a bit.

The game was slated for release March 2009, when they suddenly delayed the game when they made the executive decision to release the game on all platforms (PS3, 360, and PC) simultaneously. Throughout the next 8 months, the development team continued to work on what was their next project - the Wardens Keep content. They, appropriately enough, finished the content roughly around the time the game was going to release, and thus the game had some zero-day DLC.

Honestly, I have no problem with this, and hopefully now that you're equipped with new information, nor will you.

[Ingmar]

I don't "exactly see" where the DLC was ripped out of the game. The Warden's Keep content in particular is fairly clearly 'bolted on' to the rest of the game. I haven't tried playing without Shale to see if the game still drops crystals and such, but that stuff story-wise is awfully modular too.

[Morat20]

I'm still trying to figure out how either the Blood Armor, Shale, or the Warden's Keep DLC was "obviously ripped from the game so you could see where it was missing".

Shale and Warden's Keep were fun, but had zip to do with the plot, propelled the story along in exactly no way, and really could have never existed without a single problem.

[Tebonas]

My problem is with the Stone Warrior, not with the Wardens Keep. Shale is too well integrated into the core game to be an afterthought or a new project.

Mind you, as long as I get that stuff with my Collectors Edition without too much hassle, I don't care all that much about the additional cost. Hell, I bought Mass Effect three times, I'm Biowares bitch anyway. And at least Bioware knows how to give English content to people in non-english countries in contrast to the Microsoft retards. For that I have to be eternally grateful.

It all sets a bad precedent. I don't want to guess what was planned for the original game and what can be safely ignored. I am a lazy fucker, and I want to buy my game, play it and forget about it until the next expansion.

Edit to answer Morat: Shale had not only dialog with the other party members, her backstory was fairly well integrated into the Dwarven subplot with the Forge. The whole game is modular, thats how Bioware creates their games nowadays.

[Velorath]

My problem is with the Stone Warrior, not with the Wardens Keep. Shale is too well integrated into the core game to be an afterthought or a new project.

Mind you, as long as I get that stuff with my Collectors Edition without too much hassle, I don't care all that much about the additional cost. Hell, I bought Mass Effect three times, I'm Biowares bitch anyway. And at least Bioware knows how to give English content to people in non-english countries in contrast to the Microsoft retards. For that I have to be eternally grateful.

It all sets a bad precedent. I don't want to guess what was planned for the original game and what can be safely ignored. I am a lazy fucker, and I want to buy my game, play it and forget about it until the next expansion.

Edit to answer Morat: Shale had not only dialog with the other party members, her backstory was fairly well integrated into the Dwarven subplot with the Forge.

Well, the Shale DLC is free (for anyone who buys the game new anyway, collector's edition or not).  As Stormwaltz mentioned earlier in the thread, it was originally cut during development since they weren't going to have enough time to finish it before the original release date.  When the game got delayed, they ended up having time to complete it after all.

[BitWarrior]

Wait, so your big complaint is that they did a great job integrating Shale into the game?

And isn't Shale *completely free* if you, you know...bought the game?

Every new retail box of DA:O contains a promotional code on a promotional code card which when redeemed provides a free download of The Stone Prisoner. Digital purchases of DA:O will have the code emailed.

[Morat20]

My problem is with the Stone Warrior, not with the Wardens Keep. Shale is too well integrated into the core game to be an afterthought or a new project.

Are you playing a different game than me? Shale's completely unintegrated. It's pretty obvious they tossed him in as another tank option, seeded his 'gifts' around (almost all as VENDOR items -- which should be a clue there), and basically made him a more versatile type of Dog.

He's uninvoled in ANY story plot other than his own (except for a bit in the Anvil of the Void). Alistair, Morrigan, and even Dog are more involved in the plot. So's Leliana.

Shale's very obviously a last minute addition, not a character built into the game from the beginning. How is he "wlell integrated into the core game"?

[Zar]

As support for the idea that all of the DLC is completely unnecessary to the "core" game, I can say that in my first playthrough of the game I had none of the DLC (as it had been acquired by, ahem, extra-legal means) and the game felt entirely complete as is.  There were no gaping discontinuities or inconsistencies which made me wonder "huh, I wonder what they had planned to put here but didn't?".

Of course since then I've purchased the game and the DLC, and the game is richer for it.  But the DLC was by no means content which was stripped out of the core game for the purpose of selling it to gullible consumers.

[Tebonas]

Ah, I only ever saw the collectors edition advertisement, and it made it look like an Exclusive:

Contains the full version of Dragon Age Origins plus:

3 exclusive in-game items

    * Bergen's honor
    * Grimoire of the Frozen Wastes
    * Final Reason

Exclusive cloth map of the world

The Stone Prisoner downloadable bonus quest and downloadable character, Shale

Downloadable Blood Dragon Armor for both Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2

My fault then, I still think it looked bad the way they did it. But I acknowledge that may just be bad timing.

And Morat, Shale is better integrated than Sten and Zevran and about as good as Oghren.

[Morat20]

And Morat, Shale is better integrated than Sten and Zevran and about as good as Oghren.

No he isn't. Shale's areas are too obviously added on, whereas Sten's located right at Lothering when you're ready for a good scrapper -- and his backstory actually involves regular areas of the game. Zevran's the assassin sent to kill you -- a rather important plot point, as it shows Loghain has noticed you're alive and can't be having with that, and the whole Antivian Crows thing is built into Denerim proper.

Shale's....from a standalone dungeon that's not connected to the game, and his part of the Deep Roads is...not connected to the rest.

He's got a more lengthy storyline and his own areas, because he's a DLC --- Zevran is actually part of the core storyline, and while Sten is kinda boring as a character, he's a two-handed fighter you get well before you have a shot at getting Ogren. You also get him early enough to make him a tank.

And for the record, the standard copy of Dragon Age comes with Stone Prisoner and the Blood Armor set. (Mine was a Christmas Gift, and had both). And the key works for something on Mass Effect 2, but I can't remember what.

[Rasix]

And Morat, Shale is better integrated than Sten and Zevran and about as good as Oghren.

No he isn't.

Someone obviously wasn't paying attention to the quests.

[Morat20]

Someone obviously wasn't paying attention to the quests.

Ack. Caught out. I'm still surprised they haven't fixed the bug with Bella and her crystals in Redcliffe.

[Venkman]

People keep talking about "bad precedent" as if this is some new thing. We're the cause of all these nickle-and-dime after-market practices, for all the little crap we've been willing to buy over the years. We have no business complaining about it.

Back on topic: where is Leliana? The Pearl in Deneroth? For some reason I've never come across her.

[Trippy]

Back on topic: where is Leliana? The Pearl in Deneroth? For some reason I've never come across her.

She is/was in Lothering.

[eldaec]

If you left Lothering without her she's dead now.

Hero.

[eldaec]

As support for the idea that all of the DLC is completely unnecessary to the "core" game, I can say that in my first playthrough of the game I had none of the DLC (as it had been acquired by, ahem, extra-legal means) and the game felt entirely complete as is.  There were no gaping discontinuities or inconsistencies which made me wonder "huh, I wonder what they had planned to put here but didn't?".

You can say the same for the entire Elven main quest.

Or the mage one.

Or the alienage.

Or Lothering.

I wouldn't say they did a bad job of removing Shale (probably at a very early stage). But do you honestly believe they wrote/recorded all the Shale's dialog separately? Planned the anvil of the void then thought 'oh hay lets add all this Shale extra shit'?

[Venkman]

If you left Lothering without her she's dead now.

Hero.

lol.

Huh. Had to look it up. I'm not sure I ever actually entered that Tavern. Never did convince the Chantry to release Sten to me either. I kept thinking about going back there now that I'm all big and bad, and roll that place until they undo the locks (or maybe bring Zevran to do them for me). You saying once I leave Lothering there ain't no going back? Never got so far in my conviction to bother checking the map.

[Trippy]

You can still go back to it if you haven't completed one of the main quests yet (where you go around "recruiting" your Grey Warden treaty army).

[Venkman]

Bah. Ok, thanks.

[taolurker]

There is a mod that allows you to go back after, but yeah basically what Trippy said.

The way to get Sten released is to have Leliana in your party when you talk to the Chantry mother.

[Venkman]

Huh. Shoulda gone to that bar then 

[BitWarrior]

There is a mod that allows you to go back after, but yeah basically what Trippy said.

Why? It's not like the game is going to break or anything, and with this the next playthrough will be completely different. Keep with what he's got.

One of the many ways to get Sten released is to have Leliana in your party when you talk to the Chantry mother.

Fixed that for you.

[Lakov_Sanite]

my rogue just picked the lock before even talking to him and he joined.  who needs dialog!

[Venkman]

Didn't have a Rogue at that point. In fact, even though I've befriended Zevran even though he tried to kill me, I haven't used him at all. I prefer the direct approach Probably missing out on a lot of the loots though.