Dragon Age

[trias_e]

I've finally obtained this game and am working through a playthrough as a dwarf rogue.  I'm certainly enjoying it so far.  But, I have a few questions.

How important is dexterity in actually hitting things?  I notice Sten missing far too often for my taste, but I'm not sure if improving his dexterity 3-6 points will make a significant difference with that.

Can you crit and backstab at the same time, or are they mutually exclusive?  This makes a significant difference whether or not I want to go down the duelist line.

I killed Wynne because she was annoying.  While I stand by my decision, I now only have one mage for the rest of the game, correct?  This kind of sucks, because there's been a few fights with 15+ NPCs that would be absurdly easier with 2 mages instead of one.

[stray]

Killing Wynne? lmao...

It isn't a matter of just lacking one mage. It's lacking a good healer.

Hrm.

[sidereal]

It's easy enough to give Morrigan Heal and she's a fine healer.  Wynne's higher level Healer skills are nice, but Morrigan non-Wynne parties are mostly about freezing and killing shit before it does too much damage anyway.

[stray]

These games are all about choices, granted. Anything's fair game. But killing off team members, especially a mage.. is a choice.. you don't really need to make.

That said, I got the Spirit Healer talent from the Warden Keep shop, so I suppose you don't need her for that either.

[edit] I mean, it's not one of those type of all or nothing choices.. Like Ashley and Kaidan in Mass Effect. I just don't see the point in killing off your options for no reason, unless the game tells you to.

[Ingmar]

Wynne has no advantage when used as a healer over Morrigan (other than her little story ability which is not really that exciting), other than she starts with all the skills mostly trained already. By the time you get Wynne its pretty trivial to have Morrigan trained as a healer instead.

[WitchKiller]

All this "oh no the structure is like their other games" complaining is ridiculous. Put aside your goddamn cynicism for once and just enjoy yourselves people, jeez. This game has the best character writing and voice acting they've ever done, in the most detailed and coherent setting they've had to work with. This game is a goddamn joy, easily up in the top 10 gaming experiences I've ever had.

Mozart wrote ~41 symphonies. They pretty much all have the same structure. That doesn't make the later ones 'rehashes', or bad, and it certainly doesn't make them unenjoyable.

Maybe I'm the only person on this forum who believes that innovation isn't the one and only important thing about game making.

The character writing, voice acting, and detailed setting may be fantastic.  You certainly make a reasonable point by asserting these excellent qualities.  These qualities are also found in “The Empire Strikes Back,” but we are playing games and not watching film.  When we are playing games, one should not be so amazed by film-like qualities that he or she forgets about the game to be played. 

Despite DA's many ornaments, I find the gameplay to be barren.  The game in DA is the same “game,” found in a choose-your-own-adventure book.

Of course DA has more features than my statement credits.  In DA we are able to choose much more than the direction of the adventurer, and that is fun.  We can choose the adventurer's look and voice, a template for his or her skills, and direct him or her in combat.  It is also very entertaining to dress-up* party members and to direct them as well.  These features elevate the gameplay from choose-your-own-adventure to something nearer to “The Oregon Trail,” but certainly not as entertaining or rewarding.  Whereas in OT we found ourselves hunting, and fording, and praying at our desk for the trail-mate (named after a BFF) just bitten by a rattlesnake, in DA we merely drone through more “battles” of hidden dice-rolls and auto-aimed spells.

Like Howard, I too love a good yarn.  I especially love a well told yarn that sports dragons and swords.  Unfortunately, $50 is too much to pay for DA's story and too much to pay for DA's game.


*equip, if you must.

[stray]

Wynne has no advantage when used as a healer over Morrigan (other than her little story ability which is not really that exciting), other than she starts with all the skills mostly trained already. By the time you get Wynne its pretty trivial to have Morrigan trained as a healer instead.

Hmm.. Just don't think it's worth killing party members. It's not like you get anything out of it. That'd be different. It's also nice to have your extra mage options if you play melee.

[Ingmar]

Wynne has no advantage when used as a healer over Morrigan (other than her little story ability which is not really that exciting), other than she starts with all the skills mostly trained already. By the time you get Wynne its pretty trivial to have Morrigan trained as a healer instead.

Hmm.. Just don't think it's worth killing party members. It's not like you get anything out of it. It's even more necessary to have your extra mage options if you play melee as well.

[stray]

Hmm!

I thought it was sort of down with the Temps but maybe not. Heh

Actually, and I think I've said this before, I tried to be as grey as possible in my playthrough. Everything's useful, etc..


[edit] To answer questions about Rogues, Duelist/Assassin is your deadliest combo. Ideally, you're going to be stealthing, micromanaging, and flanking a lot, but duelist enables you to improve straight up combat usefulness as well. At the very least, the passive is nice, and you can still be an Assassin type all you want. You've got nothing to lose by training it. While Bard and Ranger are better served on ranged characters. And you've got a Bard anyways. Unless you plan on killing her too. 

[trias_e]

Hey, she attacked me.  I'm not reloading my game simply due to her freaking out because I sympathized with apostates in one dialogue option.  I figure anyone that uptight is just going to piss me off anyways.

Duelist/Assassin was the plan.  That last Duelist ability looks amazing.  Now to flirt with Zevran so he will teach me assassin.   ?

Finally, healing doesn't really seem to be my problem.  I'm more concerned with AE, definitely my big weakness.  I think I will actually have Morrigan grab sleep next to help out with that.

[stray]

You don't have to flirt with him, but it seemed like it took awhile in my case. Maybe if you did shack up, he'd teach you right away.

[tmp]

These features elevate the gameplay from choose-your-own-adventure to something nearer to “The Oregon Trail,” but certainly not as entertaining or rewarding.  Whereas in OT we found ourselves hunting, and fording, and praying at our desk for the trail-mate (named after a BFF) just bitten by a rattlesnake, in DA we merely drone through more “battles” of hidden dice-rolls and auto-aimed spells.

Given the hunting, fording and the state of your trail-mate in the Oregon Trail is also basically a series of hidden dice-rolls in a choose-your-own-adventure type of game, isn't it more of a case you simply got immersed in one setting but not in the other, and allow it to colour your perception of the gameplay? I fail to imagine why you'd otherwise deem activities in one of these games worty of scare quotes but grant seemingly higher status similar make-believe activities of another game.

[Ingmar]

All this "oh no the structure is like their other games" complaining is ridiculous. Put aside your goddamn cynicism for once and just enjoy yourselves people, jeez. This game has the best character writing and voice acting they've ever done, in the most detailed and coherent setting they've had to work with. This game is a goddamn joy, easily up in the top 10 gaming experiences I've ever had.

Mozart wrote ~41 symphonies. They pretty much all have the same structure. That doesn't make the later ones 'rehashes', or bad, and it certainly doesn't make them unenjoyable.

Maybe I'm the only person on this forum who believes that innovation isn't the one and only important thing about game making.

The character writing, voice acting, and detailed setting may be fantastic.  You certainly make a reasonable point by asserting these excellent qualities.  These qualities are also found in “The Empire Strikes Back,” but we are playing games and not watching film.  When we are playing games, one should not be so amazed by film-like qualities that he or she forgets about the game to be played. 

Despite DA's many ornaments, I find the gameplay to be barren.  The game in DA is the same “game,” found in a choose-your-own-adventure book.

Of course DA has more features than my statement credits.  In DA we are able to choose much more than the direction of the adventurer, and that is fun.  We can choose the adventurer's look and voice, a template for his or her skills, and direct him or her in combat.  It is also very entertaining to dress-up* party members and to direct them as well.  These features elevate the gameplay from choose-your-own-adventure to something nearer to “The Oregon Trail,” but certainly not as entertaining or rewarding.  Whereas in OT we found ourselves hunting, and fording, and praying at our desk for the trail-mate (named after a BFF) just bitten by a rattlesnake, in DA we merely drone through more “battles” of hidden dice-rolls and auto-aimed spells.

Like Howard, I too love a good yarn.  I especially love a well told yarn that sports dragons and swords.  Unfortunately, $50 is too much to pay for DA's story and too much to pay for DA's game.


*equip, if you must.

If you don't like RPGs, why did you buy one?

[stray]

Since I was a big fan of old school adventure titles, I'll take it where I can get it now. Personally I think I've been clear about forgiving Bioware's gameplay because of this. Although I would prefer RPG's to be more action-like, like Demon's Souls.

Also, while it's not great gameplay, it's not horrible either. There are some games so bad in their execution, they offend me. Bioware never does that at least.

[Khaldun]

One of the things you really have to credit here even within the terms of Bioware's work is that they've fixed the "evil means being selfish and a snarky assbiter" problem. There's a very clear kind of middle-of-the-road pragmatism available, and I felt myself very willing to "play the part" and make tough or difficult ethical choices that weren't just about trying to get some particular end plot but were particular to the dramatics of the situation. I was especially surprised at how strongly I felt about the resolution of Morrigan's plotline, for example.

[gryeyes]

In some aspects it gets the morally ambivalence down. In others it fails completely (antagonists).

[Malakili]

  When we are playing games, one should not be so amazed by film-like qualities that he or she forgets about the game to be played. 

Its funny you should say this, because I've found myself thinking several times that I just wish the game was a book so I could just sit down and read to the end instead of having to play to find out what happens next.

[Velorath]

Wynne has no advantage when used as a healer over Morrigan (other than her little story ability which is not really that exciting), other than she starts with all the skills mostly trained already. By the time you get Wynne its pretty trivial to have Morrigan trained as a healer instead.

Hmm.. Just don't think it's worth killing party members. It's not like you get anything out of it. It's even more necessary to have your extra mage options if you play melee as well.

[WitchKiller]

TMP, you're absolutely correct.  My bias did make me see more in OT's die-rolls than DA's; however, OT did have pixel collision.  But if die-roll combat is all that's on the entree menu, then I'll stick to pen & paper.

If you don't like RPGs, why did you buy one?

I like RPGs just fine, but I'm curious as to why you so enjoy this one?  Is it in your top ten gaming experiences because of the visceral MMO combat, or the equally visceral pause menu?   If it's because of voice acting, side-boob, or setting's detail, then you should list DA as one of your top ten viewing experiences.

[Velorath]

One of the things you really have to credit here even within the terms of Bioware's work is that they've fixed the "evil means being selfish and a snarky assbiter" problem. There's a very clear kind of middle-of-the-road pragmatism available, and I felt myself very willing to "play the part" and make tough or difficult ethical choices that weren't just about trying to get some particular end plot but were particular to the dramatics of the situation. I was especially surprised at how strongly I felt about the resolution of Morrigan's plotline, for example.

I think a lot of that is largely an extension of what they did in Mass Effect.

[tmp]

[Koyasha]

I like RPGs just fine, but I'm curious as to why you so enjoy this one?  Is it in your top ten gaming experiences because of the visceral MMO combat, or the equally visceral pause menu?   If it's because of voice acting, side-boob, or setting's detail, then you should list DA as one of your top ten viewing experiences.

In my opinion, I like this one in particular because it's the first RPG I've played that has a combat system that allows direct control of multiple characters, with interesting tactical options where a fight with exactly the same characters, in exactly the same equipment, can be easy or hard, depending on your choices of how to approach it, since the Infinity Engine.  I did not feel the same way about NWN2, since in that game in general I felt as though I was either powerful enough to defeat a battle or I wasn't, and my specific strategy for it was somewhat important, but could not take me from automatic loss to easy win, without changing levels or anything else about my party.

[Ironwood]

What a crock.

[Engels]

Its funny you should say this, because I've found myself thinking several times that I just wish the game was a book so I could just sit down and read to the end instead of having to play to find out what happens next.

Actually, the game is based on two books by David Gaider. GF got them both for Kindle and she says they're good. The stories are set before the game, and provide a lot of background info on the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn. Most of the second book takes place in the Deep Roads with Duncan as a primary character.

[Selby]

This game makes me sad with how difficult it is.  Or maybe I just suck.  Even on normal I had to reload like 4-5 times every battle since 3 out of 4 died in the beginning.  It seems to be easier on the easier difficulty setting, but I just haven't figured out the combat system yet since I issue commands and everyone eventually ends up standing around.  Any tips for a complete idiot?  Or a decent newbie guide that isn't riddled with spoilers or cheating?  For the record, I've only made it to the "get to the tower and light the beacon during the battle" at the beginning of the game (and get stomped by the mobs trying to get close to it).

[Reg]

It gets better once you're higher level and have a few more powers to use. And once you have at least one mage in the party life gets even easier. Bioware has done this before. I remember that damned wolf in Baldur's Gate that was like the first creature you met at the beginning of the game used to kill me at least 3 times out of 4 no matter what kind of character I had.

edit: missing words

[trias_e]

Things that help me with combat include:  Running away and cone of colding the line of attackers that follow, focus fire in general and pausing/micromanaging every 2 seconds to do so, making mages the number 1 priority and stunning the crap out of them, and probably best of all so far, getting force field and using that against trouble mobs while you kill everything else.

[Venkman]

This game makes me sad with how difficult it is.  Or maybe I just suck.  Even on normal I had to reload like 4-5 times every battle since 3 out of 4 died in the beginning.  It seems to be easier on the easier difficulty setting, but I just haven't figured out the combat system yet since I issue commands and everyone eventually ends up standing around.  Any tips for a complete idiot?  Or a decent newbie guide that isn't riddled with spoilers or cheating?  For the record, I've only made it to the "get to the tower and light the beacon during the battle" at the beginning of the game (and get stomped by the mobs trying to get close to it).

Playing on PC or console? Only reason I ask is I don't know if you're having control/UI difficulty or game challenges.

For me, I make liberal use of pausing and micromanage every specific move in many of the fights. I know some people are really good at building fantastic Tactics, but I just haven't spent the time trying because I like doing it my way In any case, the most important things I've found for how I like to play are: ensure you have plenty of heal pots, which you may not that early in the game, and don't go anywhere without a healer.

What class are you? I've only really played Mage signficantly, and I've heard that's sorta easymode for the early part of the game.

[Selby]

Playing on PC or console?

PC.  And I started as a warrior and also have a rogue.  Both tend to have the same problems of getting kicked around.  And I just got some NPC mage to help me out, which I haven't spent too much time figuring out because it happened right before combat ;-)

I do try and kill the mages first, because they have nasty spells that AoE the entire group down to 1/4 health.  But they tend to run away, so unless I make everyone use a bow (and get nuked from afar) the mage runs away into a group of 4-5 other mobs and then it goes to hell from there.  I think the first mage battle took 8 retries to get it done.

The tactics system looks neat and potentially powerful, but I'm not that good at setting it up (as I said, everyone ends up standing around ;-) ).

[Reg]

Have you found the "hold position" button yet?  It's very handy if you want to do second by second micro managing of everyone in the party. They won't budge unless you tell them to.

[Selby]

I have the hold position, but it seems like some of the characters tend to ignore it. 

[Venkman]

For now, I'd concentrate on using your Mage as a primary healer. Unless you're overflowing in heal pots, it's easy to just have him sit back and chain heal. Heck, I did that with my main for a bit, and I hate playing the role of primary healer. Which is why I went with Wynne over Morrigan. I'd rather stand back and Inferno the Grease than heal 

Is it possible that a Character's Tactics setting overrides the Hold position command? I have no idea.

For running Mages, or even for casting Mages: always have your Mage have Stone Fist on standby (it's a DD+knockdown). I find this to be a great counterspell. It's faster casting than many AOEs, so I use it to both interrupt as well as to knock them down when they fleet. Later you'll get Freeze that can be used the same way.

[Selby]

For now, I'd concentrate on using your Mage as a primary healer.

So re-start as a mage? 

[CmdrSlack]

For now, I'd concentrate on using your Mage as a primary healer.

So re-start as a mage? 

Nope. Unless you want to invest some points early on in healing (and then be the healer), you're better served by taking the first spell in the cold line and one of the spells of the weaken-mana drain-debuff-orpossiblyCC-variety.

[stray]

You get Morrigan... like, 2 hours into the game. If that. Don't need to reroll for a mage.

I don't know what kind of warrior you are, but you're mostly fine as the main. I think 2handers are a little lame compared to other shit though.