Wallpaper removal

[Venkman]

We just closed today and immediately set about getting the kids' room ready. First order was removing the gawdawful wallpaper. The vinyl stuff was easy to remove. The three goddamned layers beneath that though... not so much. 3 hours and I managed to clear 3 feet of about 50 feet of total wall, and that with a substantial amount of compound work to follow. I swear they built this place in '69 around the damned wallpaper. The style was old in the 40s.

In any case, anyone have any luck with simlarly layered aged crap? I'm on my way to get a steamer now having done Dif, Fabric Softener/water, scrapers, all that stuff. It's steamer or contractor at this point unless someone's got some magic method.

[Nerf]

Steaming can fuck up the drywall, the easiest way to do it would probably just be to demo it the studs and re-drywall it.  When we built out the cybercafe, it took about a day to frame up the metal stud walls and drywall the new office, which was about the size of a childs bedroom.

Taping and floating is incredibly easy once you get the hang of it.

[Nebu]

Best tip I can offer is to use coarse sandpaper or something similar to score the existing walpaper first.  This way, solvents and steam can better penetrate the wallpaper for easier removal.  With that many layers, it may be easiest to just demo the wall and re-sheetrock.  An advantage of this is that you can then use some cheap insulation in the walls to better soundproof rooms as you go.  Great to do if you have kids. 

[Grimwell]

Demo and start over. If they put that much crap on the walls, they probably need it anyway. Plus, after you figure in your worth by the hour, removing the old paper is pretty expensive... and you are likely to start damaging the walling under it in the process causing a need for repair or new drywall.

Nuke and restart!

(congrats on the house!)

[Viin]

Hire someone! Do not attempt yourself!

Don't ask how I know!

Edit: Or, as Grimwell says, demo and put new drywall up, 10000000000 times easier than removing wallpaper and prepping so you can paint.

[Merusk]

Steaming can fuck up the drywall, the easiest way to do it would probably just be to demo it the studs and re-drywall it.  When we built out the cybercafe, it took about a day to frame up the metal stud walls and drywall the new office, which was about the size of a childs bedroom.

Taping and floating is incredibly easy once you get the hang of it.

This.  You'll save time and headaches in the long run if it's as bad as you say it is.  Plus you don't have to put up studs.. It'll take about two to three days. Ask your HBA for some reputable drywall contractors.  I guarantee they're working cheap right now as  NOBODY is building as much as they used to and the subs need the work.  Haggle if you have to, but keep that in mind.

[pants]

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[Abagadro]

If you are still going to go manual, make sure that you have actually removed all of the vinyl stuff. It's entirely possible that you removed only the top layer of that stuff and that you have the vinyl backing still up there, which basically impedes the penetration of anything else you are going to try. Roughing it up (as suggested up there) or even scoring it is going to be necessary to get whatever solution (enzymatic, fabric softener, vinegar, whatever) from actually getting down to the glue.

I'd also go with the demo though if it is that bad. I had some sort of flat plaster in my first house I took down wallpaper so there was no option, but I only had two layers.

If you do have drywall and can go down to the studs, in addition to upping your insulation you could wire it for home theater/network etc.

[Venkman]

I'll be sure to tip the waiters.

I had considered demo'ing. Certainly easier. But these walls are the sort of crazy-solid I'd be depressed to destroy. The neighborhood we're moving too used to constitute "rich" back in the late 60s, and they built this particularly development to last. This isn't the put-my-hand-through-it crap you buy at Lowes. All of the scoring I've done with those round wax-on/wax-off rolling scorers barely nicked it, while cutting through what turned out to be five layers of paper like nothing (that after the sixth layer came off like a a fresh slice of cheese). The vinyl didn't leave the paper back luckily.

The steaming went pretty well. But I've put out the call to someone anyway. I could do it and compound over the crappy parts no problem. Built enough walls in my time to be fairly good at it. It's just the time. We're moving in next Wednesday and getting carpet installed right after. I don't foresee having both bedrooms and the hallways done by then.

[Viin]

Are they lath and plaster walls?

They usually feel like cement, and are all hell to fix. So yah, don't break those if that's the case.

[Merusk]

Yeah it sounds like it is plaster.  If that's the case go ahead and steam the paper off.  It's one thing to demo and replace drywall, but plaster is a lot more solid, makes a huge mess when you demo it and drywall isn't anywhere near as nice.

[Sky]

I just took the demo route and put in 5/8" drywall, but I had the time. Unless you do it for a living, if time is the consideration, hire a contractor. I had one come in for the bathroom and they got all that done in the time I've done the living room. When I finish up I'll be putting some before/after shots on flickr and link them here.

And congratulations on the house!

[angry.bob]

Having just de-papered a 3200sqft house with plaster walls I give you the following advice: just rip the shit down and hire a plasterer (if you can find one) to put a new finish coat up. Most likely anything you do to get the paper off will ruin the finish coat of plaster and make it bubble up. So just tear the paper off. If they didn't use sizing when they put it up it will take off big chunks of the finish coat. Don't worry about it, the rough coat is like concrete and just as tough. When you get done taking it all down, scrape off the loose bits and call the plasterer. Our final cost to get glass-smooth plaster walls put back up was about $1.10 per square foot of floor. The best money I ever spent.

If it's drywall, just tear it all out.

[Baldrake]

The breadth of knowledge on this board continues to amaze me.

[Venkman]

Thanks all. I found the perfect storm today. I'll get the exact name, but there's a scraper I found that works so well I bought three of them. And we rented two other steamers. It's slow going, but if you move the head just right, you can be constantly steaming and cutting until your arms fall off.

I'll be lucky to get the kids room depapered before we move next week, but that's the one that matters most, and after some exploration is the only room with that sheer amount of paper on it. Most other rooms are either just vinyl with a layer of backing or at most vinyl with only two layers beneath.

I'm just going to buy a good steamer (probably around $250-300) and keep it. 9 of our 11 rooms have wallpaper on them, I'd rather invest in central air than spend on to someone take that all out at once, it's the sort of thing I can do while listening to podcasts, and it's sorta therapeutic

[FatuousTwat]

There is a product specifically designed for this, I've used to all over my house (it used to be covered in this ugly ass Santa Fe shit). Let me go find it...

DIF. http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?productid=17

[Venkman]

Yea, that's where I went first. Dif and knives. That worked well on the first layer of paper (which was under the top layer of vinyl which came off even without scoring). Dif wouldn't penetrate to the wall board though. We ended up doing more damage to the wall than paper removed.

Steamer's the best solution for our particular issue.

[Sky]

I'm just going to buy a good steamer (probably around $250-300) and keep it. 9 of our 11 rooms have wallpaper on them, I'd rather invest in central air than spend on to someone take that all out at once, it's the sort of thing I can do while listening to podcasts, and it's sorta therapeutic

That's why I'm doing the drywall in the living room. I have a few more walls to do, and investing in the tools now (with a few bucks from my home improvement loan for the bathroom) means I can do them very cheaply in the future. My contractor rocks, but I do work at a library (time>$).

If you hit any stubborn spots, mix in some vinegar. I was googling ways to remove tub decals and vinegar seems to be some magical adhesive remover. My bathroom looks hilarious with new ~everything~ except the window and tub which are totally fucking nasty until I can clean them.

[Merusk]

It's because Vinegar is a mild acid and less caustic than Ammonia with none of the "Oops, was there bleach in that?" worries. 

[Nebu]

I'm a big fan of solvents for cleaning adhesives... of course, I have a lab full of choices to bring home.  A luxury most people don't have.  I've used gasoline, terpentine, and nail polish remover on many occasions though.  You just have to be careful about the surface composition and allowing it to contact other surfaces not metal or ceramic. 

[Sky]

I was considering using some old gas or kerosene that's in a can in garage. But I think it's ancient, from two owners ago 

Have I mentioned I really really dislike the kid (well, 33) who owned the house for the last three years? Fucking lazy clueless fuck.

[Nebu]

Have I mentioned I really really dislike the kid (well, 33) who owned the house for the last three years? Fucking lazy clueless fuck.

I always try to negotiate cleaning costs into the purchase agreement.  I've owned too many places where I got there on move-in day and had to spend 3 days just cleaning before I could unload the truck.  It's frightening the shit that people will live in.  FRIGHTENING!

[schild]

Why would you even considering buying or renting a dirty place? It's not even a possible scenario I would find myself in. I would tell the owner/landlord/real estate agent that the place is a dump and to call me back when it's clean like the day it was fucking built.

[Baldrake]

Why would you even considering buying or renting a dirty place? It's not even a possible scenario I would find myself in. I would tell the owner/landlord/real estate agent that the place is a dump and to call me back when it's clean like the day it was fucking built.

It is currently a buyer's market in the US. This has not always been the case.

[Sky]

I did get a better price based on condition. And it's only the bathroom that was really dirty, and most of that I demo'd out. The rest is mostly dust. The PITI is cheaper than renting a decent sized apartment, and much less than renting a comparable house (about 2/3rds of a rental house). I just added five figures to the value in the last month because it's in a desirable neighborhood that's selling much higher, because this place needed the renovations I'm doing.

It's a really great deal and the neighborhood is ridiculously good. Elementary and middle schools, fire house, a block away. But it's a dead end with land-locked treed lots, quiet. I'm amazed I found something this good in the price range.

Also, it's still mostly a sellers market here, unless you're shooting the moon.

[Merusk]

Why would you even considering buying or renting a dirty place? It's not even a possible scenario I would find myself in. I would tell the owner/landlord/real estate agent that the place is a dump and to call me back when it's clean like the day it was fucking built.

The owner/ Landloard you've got someplace to go with.  The real estate agent will laugh at you, explain that you signed the papers, they have your money and you should've thought of that before closing. Enjoy your new home!

Just sayin'.

[Viin]

Also, it's still mostly a sellers market here, unless you're shooting the moon.

It is here in Colorado too, but only for luxury homes. The "normal" home (100k to 400k) is most certainly a buyer's market. Not to mention the 100s of condos for sale in downtown Denver.. I think they built 3-4 large condo complexes the last couple years and they are building more!

[Venkman]

The real estate agent will laugh at you, explain that you signed the papers, they have your money and you should've thought of that before closing. Enjoy your new home!

That's why you do a walkthrough before the closing. Both houses we had last minute stuff the prior owners honestly forgot to clear out. As I'm doing that myself to clear out of my current house, I can easily see missing stuff as well. There's just too many corners to hide stuff in.

You work with the lawyers and the real estate agents to get all this stuff up front. If it turns out you need to hold money back because they forgot to remove an old water heater, your lawyer will do that. Did they leave a bunch of crap on the driveway? Same thing. Lots of people have been there.

[Venkman]

Also, it's still mostly a sellers market here, unless you're shooting the moon.

It is here in Colorado too, but only for luxury homes. The "normal" home (100k to 400k) is most certainly a buyer's market. Not to mention the 100s of condos for sale in downtown Denver.. I think they built 3-4 large condo complexes the last couple years and they are building more!

The one part of the market that didn't seem to melt down, at least in my area, was starter homes for buyers who plan to live in them (not flipper folks). At least in my area. So I got a lot more for mine than I thought I would while trading up to what amounted to an estate sale. I figure the wallpaper is my penance for having lucked into an awesome deal

[Selby]

That's why you do a walkthrough before the closing.

Just because you do a walk-thru doesn't mean the old owner isn't going to shit all over the place in their rush to move out.  We had to arrange seller's rent for 3 months while they moved out, and when we moved in we found that they had moved all of the furniture around during showing the place to cover the NASTIEST carpet I have ever encountered.  I was pissed when I walked into the place for the first time and found all the shitty mcshit cheap shit that the owner had left in the garage and on the side of the house "as a favor to us" so we could install it when we moved in.  Except it was the cheapest Home Depot shit imaginable that was all dinged up and broken (clearance aisle!) and left outside for 2-3 weeks to rust and rot exposed to the elements.  I never wanted to beat a dipshit so badly.  A free inherited house with a 65k Escalade in the driveway, and the lazy fuck wouldn't even spring to fix the broken flue in the original 35 year old heater.

[FatuousTwat]

Yea, that's where I went first. Dif and knives. That worked well on the first layer of paper (which was under the top layer of vinyl which came off even without scoring). Dif wouldn't penetrate to the wall board though. We ended up doing more damage to the wall than paper removed.

Steamer's the best solution for our particular issue.

Ah, I've never had to deal with more than 1 or 2 layers of wallpaper.

[Sky]

Just because you do a walk-thru doesn't mean the old owner isn't going to shit all over the place in their rush to move out. 

I scheduled my walkthrough the night before closing first thing the next morning. Thought that would cover it.

The dipshit was still there DOING LAUNDRY. I told him he needed to be gone, that the contract said I take possession on closing (after his agent's lawyer delayed the closing for almost a full month to buy him time). He kinda mumbled. So I close, go get keys, the fiancee and I go buy a grill and head to the house for a little celebration. Dipshit is STILL THERE, moving stuff. I told him "last load, you're trespassing."

He ended up leaving a bunch of shit, but luckily no new damage to the house. He left his air conditioner and since my niceness (not something I have in volume) had dried up, I chuckled when we had the heat wave last week and it hit humid high 90s. Also, he had been doing laundry and the washer (which I got in the contract) needs repair because there is the most disgustingly foul odors emanating from it.

Anyway, getting back to Selby's story. Cheap shit. Yeah, I've already replaced a bunch of shit most slumlords wouldn't put in their apartments (I know from experience). My dipshit agent wondered why I wanted to replace the new toilet. It's a fucking GERBER toilet with a plastic flush handle, lines were the cheapest shit possible. Vanity was a $20 special particle board and plastic. Light fixture circa 1950.

People amaze me with their tolerance to live in cheap shit that doesn't work. And I was a band gypsy living in what I thought was squalor when I was younger. Damn.

[bhodi]

This is as good a place as any. Amuse yourself with these slideshows!

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,1220600,00.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,1548031,00.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,1587613,00.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20158517,00.html
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20048555,00.html

[Nija]

Buying a house now is crazy unless you're getting a place for less than $200k.

[Sky]

Buying a house now is crazy unless you're getting a place for less than $200k.

I didn't say I bought four houses