You learn somthing new every day (PvP related) (More offical info added).

[Mrbloodworth]

As this seems to be a running theory, I figured I would post to clarify.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Demonologist (or Necromancer) magic ratings. You will notice that the buff from either of the specialized fire/electrical/unholy/cold buffs added to your base magic rating will equal your resist rating, or any other "target" rating for your level.

For instance, the target at level 80 is 317 ratings, which is achieved with the base value + the buff value from either school rating buffs. (Obviously, if you have Archmage, the buff will also apply to both schools instead of just one.)

So, in the end, it is Magic Rating + Specialized Magic Rating vs. Resist Rating for the purposes of combat calculations.

Additionally, no stats were intended to apply to magic (or attack) ratings, and this was simply an error in the tooltip text until it was corrected last week. Intelligence increases magic damage dealt, not magic rating.

Fruthermore, Magic, Attack, Defense, and Resist ratings do not apply in PvP at all, to provide a more even playing field for all players of all level ranges.
__________________
System Designer
Age of Conan

Link

I think its sweet.


A more detailed explanation:

Attack Rating, Defense Rating, Magic Rating (this includes specialized Magic Ratings) and Magical Resist are the "big 4" stats in terms of comparing attackers to defenders in the game.

The opposing stats are, as may be obvious:

    * Attack Rating vs. Defense Rating
    * Magic Rating (+Specialized Rating) vs. Magical Resist


In normal combat, if the attacker's offensive rating is lower than the defender's defensive rating, the damage will be reduced. Likewise, if the attacker's offensive rating is higher than the defender's defensive rating, the damage will be increased.

When attack and defense ratings are equal, the damage dealt will be the "normal" value of the attack, spell, or ability.

Heroic rating works mostly the same; however it is limited in when it can apply. It only applies if that rating is lower than an opposing rating.

For example:

    * Player A has 250 Attack Rating, NPC B has 300 Defense Rating, outcome is -50 for the Player
    * Player A has 250 Attack Rating + 100 Heroic Attack Rating, NPC B has 300 Defense Rating, outcome is even
    * Player A has 250 Attack Rating + 100 Heroic Attack Rating, NPC B has 400 Defense Rating, outcome is -50 for the Player
    * Player A has 250 Attack Rating + 100 Heroic Attack Rating, NPC B has 200 Defense Rating, outcome is +50 for the Player


For specialized magic ratings, as with Demonologists and Necromancers, the specialized rating is added when using a spell of the school that one has specialized rating for. For instance, if one has 100 Magic Rating and 50 Electrical Magic Rating, the effective magic rating is 150 with Electrical spells and 100 with non-Electrical spells. (The Archmage feat in the Mage general tree will make the buffs apply to both schools for the class, so all spells will effectively be cast with 150 Magic Rating.)

---

The last point is simply, these 4 stats do not apply in PvP. Thus, in PvP positive or negative damage multipliers normally associated with offensive and defensive rating comparisons are completely ignored. This is to allow players of all levels to compete on a fairly level playing-field, and not have them dealing artificially reduced or increased damage due to rating differences.

All other stats work normally in PvP. It is simply that "scaler" functionality which is normally in place to dynamically adjust gameplay based on level differences (for instance, the fact that you will evade more against a lower-level NPC) is removed in PvP to allow for a fairer matchup of player skill and ability.

To answer the questions of "why heavy armor?" or others along that same line: all players of all classes have the ability to reach the "target" ratings for a given level. They are a way to control your "virtual level" when compared against NPCs, not to provide a specific advantage to certain classes. All classes should be able to reach, for instance, 317 in all 4 rating statistics at level 80.

Heavier types of armor have higher innate invulnerability ratings, greater resistance to knockback effects, and dramatically increased health modifications. (Heavy armor, for instance, has over 3 times as much health available compared to medium armor.)

---

As I mentioned in another post last week, we will be releasing a bit of a guide to statistics and their general functionality in the near future. We would like to make this and other information a bit more easily accessible than it is currently. Obviously, we will not go in too much detail about advanced parts of the system (for instance, the non-linear formula which controls the actual offensive vs. defensive rating multipliers) but we would like to see players having a greater understanding of how stats are intended to work.

Hopefully this was helpful.
__________________
System Designer
Age of Conan

Some more explanations:

Anyway Jayde. What will be done about the destiny quests? Those of us who picked ratings are at a disadvantage because others picked mana for example which works in PvP.

Those bonuses were converted to +damage bonuses, although it's possible the text is not updated yet in the quest.

WoW really great.I think it was a stealth patch note of last week monday.Can we please get and update on int and wisdom stats?Do they give us +damage or magic rating?And please no more stealth patch notes.
Thanks

Intelligence (for Mages) and Wisdom (for Priests) contribute to magical damage instead of magic rating. It being displayed as magic rating was a typo in the text description. (Stats were revamped in Beta 6 months or so ago, but the text was not properly updated.)
__________________
System Designer
Age of Conan

[Venkman]

What's that mean exactly? Every guess I have I think is wrong 

[Mrbloodworth]

What's that mean exactly? Every guess I have I think is wrong 

I think it means, it doesn't matter if you have uber epic raid gear with +'s to any of those things.

It back to 90% skill, 5% gear and 5% dumb luck. IMO. There are still many stats on equipment that do matter, just not those.

[Venkman]

I meant in more detail. Like, if two magic casters separate by 30 levels go at it with the same exact spells (ie each one uses Rank 2 of a spell even if one can use higher ranks): do they do the same damage against each other?

If so, that's pretty damned unique.

[Slayerik]

I meant in more detail. Like, if two magic casters separate by 30 levels go at it with the same exact spells (ie each one uses Rank 2 of a spell even if one can use higher ranks): do they do the same damage against each other?

If so, that's pretty damned unique.

That's what it is reading like to me. Norweiglish is pretty tough though.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I meant in more detail. Like, if two magic casters separate by 30 levels go at it with the same exact spells (ie each one uses Rank 2 of a spell even if one can use higher ranks): do they do the same damage against each other?

If so, that's pretty damned unique.

That's what it is reading like to me. Norweiglish is pretty tough though.

im pretty sure they are saying damage increasing stats work properly but resists are normalized

[Mrbloodworth]

also unique ability's of items, such as a "you hit me" spell that affects the attacker still also apply.

[d4rkj3di]

Fruthermore, Magic, Attack, Defense, and Resist ratings do not apply in PvP at all, to provide a more even playing field for all players of all level ranges.

Link

I think its sweet.

Read: Fruthermore, Magic, Attack, Defense, and Resist ratings do not apply in PvP at all, because we don't fucking know how they work. You know, just like Stats.

[Mrbloodworth]

Fruthermore, Magic, Attack, Defense, and Resist ratings do not apply in PvP at all, to provide a more even playing field for all players of all level ranges.

Link

I think its sweet.

Read: Fruthermore, Magic, Attack, Defense, and Resist ratings do not apply in PvP at all, because we don't fucking know how they work. You know, just like Stats.

No. Nerd rage can go somewhere else please, kthanks. 

[d4rkj3di]

When I post Nerd Rage, you'll know it.

So right now, it would seem that classes that get the most armor drops that have bonuses to Health, Mana, and Stam have higher survivability, since the other thing that isn't being taken into consideration at this time is damage mitigation based on armor type. I guess the ratings not applying is part of what allows a couple of mid-20's players being able to take on a 60-ish player with a good chance of winning.

And hey, Stats got fixed today.

[Threash]

When I post Nerd Rage, you'll know it.

So right now, it would seem that classes that get the most armor drops that have bonuses to Health, Mana, and Stam have higher survivability, since the other thing that isn't being taken into consideration at this time is damage mitigation based on armor type. I guess the ratings not applying is part of what allows a couple of mid-20's players being able to take on a 60-ish player with a good chance of winning.

And hey, Stats got fixed today.

shields help quite a bit too apparently, sucks for us conqs.

[veredus]

I meant in more detail. Like, if two magic casters separate by 30 levels go at it with the same exact spells (ie each one uses Rank 2 of a spell even if one can use higher ranks): do they do the same damage against each other?

If so, that's pretty damned unique.

This is how I read it.

Ok say I am lvl 20 fighting a lvl 40 (obviosuly below numbers are made up)

 My rank 2 firebolt hits  for 200 to 300 dmg since that's what it is supposed to do. Regardless of  lvl. So even though he is way higher I do normal dmg. Also my to hit chance is just as good as if we are same lvl. I like it though if this is the case. Lower levels can help out but it still rewards you for leveling up.

 lvl 40 guys rank 2 firebolt hits me for 200 - 300 since that is what his is supposed to do regardless of lvl. Even though I am way lower he just does normal dmg - no extra dmg due to level discrepency. Also no bonus to hit chance due to lvl. But then he blasts me with his rank 4 firebolt for 600 - 800 dmg and I die a horrible death.

Now obviously he has an advantage due to bigger spells and more hps. But with some luck a lvl 20 could beat a lvl 40 in this setup, unlikely but possible I guess, and 2 lvl 20's could do very well then. 

[photek]

NERD RAGE INC.

Ok fuck this game and its PvP. Stupidest shit I've seen in a game ever. Funcom are officially clueless. This is the final nail in the coffin for me and I had major plans with my guild to be nr.1 worldwide in PvP, now after I showed this to the other guys... I'm pulling the plug. To clarify a bit and to those who think that I want my epics to dominate a poor casual guy, wrong. I want my epic gear to do the same it has done in other PvP games, give an excellent player with magnificent micromanagement skills, reflexes and FULL control and understanding of his and every single class/specc in the game the ability to take on 2-3-4 skilled players on his own. At a certain point in the curve, skill has a bigger limit than gear has, skill can only take two players |<----->| this far, past there other factors that start kicking in. Naturally now gear (and to a minor degree, some luck) is one of them. Now in Conan at 80 it takes me eternities to kill a Soldier class and taking on multiple players is just a thing I can forget and memorize doing at lower levels. Bah I'm so disappointed that I have nothing constructive to say at the moment.

[photek]

Also MMOs need a food chain. There is no point to an MMO if there isn't achievements to strive for, especially in the competitive parts. Its not like those who are at the top get born at the top, everyone is at rock bottom at some point, some just work harder than others (or invest more time depending on game) and they should be rewarded in that manner. Now with this stupid stunt Funcom is pulling only stats that will affect me majorly in PvP are +health +mana benefits. As a priest class my health is superlimited and rangers at my level pull of 4k-5k shots. I have 2300HP. Meh. Those who want an equal term gameplay should stick to FPS games.

[lamaros]

 

[photek]

One last rant : MMO's are group play. Group. Team. 1on1 means nothing. This stuff is made to make 1on1 fair and give a "fair group play" imaginary setup. Trust me, it does nothing positively. I like 5 of my best troopers steamrolling a large group of noobs. I highly enjoy 5 super skilled players or 10 bastards with better group setup steamrolling my 5 team setup forcing us to rethink our tactics and try a different approach and force us to play better. This is stupid. Meh. 

[Lt.Dan]

How do you feel about one guy screwing over your group of 5?   

[Krakrok]

Those who want an equal term gameplay should stick to FPS games.

Oh. I thought AOC was a FPS.

[Bunk]

NERD RAGE INC.

Ok fuck this game and its PvP. Stupidest shit I've seen in a game ever. Funcom are officially clueless. This is the final nail in the coffin for me and I had major plans with my guild to be nr.1 worldwide in PvP, now after I showed this to the other guys... I'm pulling the plug. To clarify a bit and to those who think that I want my epics to dominate a poor casual guy, wrong. I want my epic gear to do the same it has done in other PvP games, give an excellent player with magnificent micromanagement skills, reflexes and FULL control and understanding of his and every single class/specc in the game the ability to take on 2-3-4 skilled players on his own. At a certain point in the curve, skill has a bigger limit than gear has, skill can only take two players |<----->| this far, past there other factors that start kicking in. Naturally now gear (and to a minor degree, some luck) is one of them. Now in Conan at 80 it takes me eternities to kill a Soldier class and taking on multiple players is just a thing I can forget and memorize doing at lower levels. Bah I'm so disappointed that I have nothing constructive to say at the moment.

Wow. This is the first time I have ever felt compelled to respond to a post with a statement such as this:

You sir, are a retard.

Ugh, I just can't belive you said that you are upset that they made a game where the only way to win isn't catassing purples.

[photek]

Retard or no retard in your opinion, I know I'm right. I am also fully aware I, and my guild, are CONSIDERED a minority and are the ones people call the 0,1% of MMOs, but that is loads of crap. Using a WoW (since it has been out for a while, its simpler to make fair comparing) realm I play on, lemme show you how many guilds on a MEDIUM populated realm are the "top 0,1%" in PvE progression :

Battle for Mount Hyjal

    * Archimonde

            [A] Forte [Migrated]
            [H] Last Resort [Migrated]
            [H] Showdown
            [A] Vortex
            [H] Converge
            [A] Coalescence
            [H] Sons of Temujin
            [H] Misanthrope
            [H] Incorporated
            [A] Apotheosanity
            [A] Aether
            [A] Impulse
            [A] SlashCry
            [H] Pwnanza
            [A] Confined
            [H] Horde Paralympic
            [A] svinkallt
            [H] Fang
            [A] Enduring Allegiance
            [A] Pandora Project
            [H] Death Note
            [H] Order of Sargeras
            [H] Nightfall
            [H] Systemet
            [H] Wayward Sun
            [H] of Doom
            [H] Untamed Brutality

The Black Temple

    * Illidan Stormrage

            [H] Last Resort [Migrated]
            [A] Forte [Migrated]
            [H] Showdown
            [A] Vortex
            [A] Coalescence
            [H] Converge
            [H] Misanthrope
            [H] Sons of Temujin
            [H] Incorporated
            [A] Apotheosanity
            [A] Aether
            [A] SlashCry
            [A] Impulse
            [H] Pwnanza
            [A] Confined
            [H] Horde Paralympic
            [H] Death Note
            [H] Fang
            [A] Watch this Space
            [A] Pandora Project
   

Those guilds represent around 25-30% of the server population, counting in those who are right behind in progress make it a 40%. Now tell them their gear means shit and it will be normalized and they, who have played for 3 years and progressed through every single instance, will be on same terms as a guy who dinged 70 yesterday. Or as it really is; Tell the PvPers that S3 gear will do the same damage as greengeared guys. Then watch WoW eat itself.

Funcom are the retarded ones, sir. Not me. It has nothing with me or other self proclaimed "hardcores" being narcissistic and wanting 1on1 domination and owning greens in purples. I can kill two guys barechested with a weapon at the moment in Conan, with all five classes I play. Its about striving for achievements and making achievements matter. Cause it is fun to have a higher goal to gain, building a better city, improving your army through new gear, a new weapon or a new shield and do more damage and it is fun knowing there is a better reward, but you gotta play harder and better to get it. Making an MMO an FPS in PvP is stupid. It kills the entire sense, matter and functionality that roleplaying games bring to begin with.

EDIT: In the same matter, it is rhetorically as fun when other guys surpass your progress, get a better city, better gear and put you against the wall forcing you to have something to work for. Competitive PvP is the way to go. I'm glad EA Mythic knows what the hell they are doing.

[Viin]

Sounds like you need to play a real PVP game.

[schild]

Sounds like you need to play a real PVP game.

Viin, that's like saying Battlestar Galactica is sci-fi.

Both Eve and BSG are political dramas trolling the world as sci-fi for the intelligentsia.

[photek]

Sounds like you need to play a real PVP game.

I already play EVE. Dark Age of Camelot I quit a while ago just before someone mentions it.

[Viin]

And what's more PVPish than politics?

[schild]

And what's more PVPish than politics?

Shooting someone in the face with a flak cannon while at the same time explaining how you fucked his mom with your sister watching the night before.

[Brogarn]

I don't know... it seems to me that you should gain in power with your items. Otherwise, there's no progression once you ding grats 80. There's no way of increasing the power of your character.

I think I'm still torn between the two arguments, but I hardly think photek is retarded for being upset by this.

[photek]

There's no way of increasing the power of your character.

Exactly. Except static mechanism and hoping devs know how to balance and with the current showcase of Funcom...  Another benefit of good gear is that an underpowered and "bad" class can make it worthwile and playable in many cases.

[Slayerik]

Jesus photek, and I thought I made PVP plus guys look bad. Actually, you are describing exactly what Schild rags on about 'Hardc0re PVPers'

You like having your big advantage over people. I personally would rather it use a UO type loot system (making crafting important, and a possible economy) and full item drop. UO's loot system doesn't have soulbound shiny purples, so it is not worth attempting again. (well, it didnt when the game was worth a shit).

Plus you call yourself the top 0.1% ... jesus E-peen boy, get a grip.

[cevik]

The gnashing of teeth about a system that isn't even tested yet is rather silly.

Just because those stats don't mean anything for pvp, it will not be the end of the world.  It also won't be the end of stats making people "pwn face" at pvp.  It will simply mean you'll focus on different stats for pvp.

Just from looking over what they are saying, +HP stuff will be highly sought after, and I can't translate the Norwenglish well enough, but it sounds like +spell damage stuff will still work.  In fact, it sounds like the only stuff that ISN'T going to work is +resist and +hit %.  And I'm not sure if you understand the mechanics of WoW pvp but +hit % doesn't work there either (beyond a % or two).  And it was pretty rare for people to focus on +resist, mostly people went for, suprise suprise, +HP and +damage.

[Slayerik]

Dude, don't insult the top .1% that he doesn't know how +hit% works!

He has 5 different classes where he can own everyone. Step off his giant cock.

[photek]

Jesus photek, and I thought I made PVP plus guys look bad. Actually, you are describing exactly what Schild rags on about 'Hardc0re PVPers'

You like having your big advantage over people. I personally would rather it use a UO type loot system (making crafting important, and a possible economy) and full item drop. UO's loot system doesn't have soulbound shiny purples, so it is not worth attempting again. (well, it didnt when the game was worth a shit).

Plus you call yourself the top 0.1% ... jesus E-peen boy, get a grip.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I say that people call endgame raiders and PvPers the 0.1% while in reality it is 25-35%, using World of Warcraft as an example. And yes, I like my Ashkandi to swing way harder than your Arcanite Reaper. Why shouldn't I? I had an Arcanite Reaper once and I worked my ass of (read=wasted time) raiding and farming the same boss over and over to get that sword. And now some AO dev is going to tell me it shouldn't matter ?

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't know... it seems to me that you should gain in power with your items. Otherwise, there's no progression once you ding grats 80. There's no way of increasing the power of your character.

Here in is the problem. You do gain in power with items, the ones listed above are only some of the many + and - items and equipment can have, not even including secondary abilitys items my them selves have. Also, PvP levels and gear are incoming.

I think to many people want/are accustomed to huge power gaps that make PvP pointless, and are accustomed to HUGE number increases in gear. From what i understand, in AOC increases are smaller, and gaps in "power" are very small across all levels and gear ranges. To the point where mini/maxing the stats your equipment has is an even bigger metagame that others (Due to the number of varrations and stats on gear from item to item of a same type). In fact, this system to me seems to make MORE possible variations due to gear selection, instead of just going up the tiers of items (and on the flip side, not being able to compeate if you don't have X item on), as evidenced to me by greens of a lower level, being different, and arguably "better" than regulars of higher levels (Depends on what stats YOU want to focus on).

What this all accumulates to for me, and my understanding (thats not perfect) is that there is a possibility of more customization, more skill required, and the idea of sport brought back into PvP. instead of one sided steam rolls and matches decided by numbers alone.

Its a paradigm shift, a good one IMO.

Some people are just over reacting IMHO.

[cevik]

And yes, I like my Ashkandi to swing way harder than your Arcanite Reaper. Why shouldn't I?

And the dps of the weapon is not listed as a stat that doesn't work in pvp, at least not in the post linked.  So I still fail to see what the big problem is.

At the very least we should wait and you know, test, before we panic and act like general forum trash and rant about the inevitable dooom, DOOOOOM I TELL YOU, of AoC.

[zubey]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the stats that the dev mentioned are just the ones that affect whether stats/spells actually hit.  Which'd mean that your gear still affects how much damage you do and how well you can heal.

[photek]

In reality if that was the case, classes were balanced and terms were near equal it would make a decent system. However that reality is not even in the Twilight Zone. Not even in the vicinity. Some stats will be far more important than others since you have a limited stats that your character will directly benefit from in PvP. One of them will be HP. HP gap currently at 80 is massive between the lowest and the highest players, even at base. With the epics I've seen from several raids, it isn't near equating, its just making far further gaps. A pair of Guardian gauntlets or boots I saw had 468HP. I don't have +418 HP on all my items combined