Massive update (PvP in June)

[Falconeer]

More...

First off, we are introducing a dueling functionality. This allows players to duel each other, both on PvP and PvE servers, without any serious repercussions. It also allows players on PvE servers to engage in PvP without having to go into the PvP mini-games, allowing them to test their grit (or solve an argument) against each other directly!

Other changes you will observe are for instance improvements to the “charge” ability that all soldier classes have. If you charge someone you will stun them, making it much more useful. Casters will also see major improvements, so keep your eyes out for more news!

[WindupAtheist]

Schild digs Age of Conan.  Conan decides to include old-school gankfest PVP complete with a barely-retouched version of the UO murder count system.  Schild proceeds to get into "lol carebear" fights with guys like Slayerik and Sinij after they call him a pussy for not wanting to partake of it.

WUA laughs.  And laughs.  And laughs.

[lamaros]

Schild digs Age of Conan.  Conan decides to include old-school gankfest PVP complete with a barely-retouched version of the UO murder count system.  Schild proceeds to get into "lol carebear" fights with guys like Slayerik and Sinij after they call him a pussy for not wanting to partake of it.

WUA laughs.  And laughs.  And laughs.

It disturbs me that someone I disagee with so completely on many things is on the same page so often. 

[Venkman]

lol.

On Falc's note:

...Massive constructions that can be seen from inside the major cities themselves, and there will only be three of these in total in the online world – one for each capitol city.

...You can customize and build upon your legendary battlekeep, just as you would with the “ordinary” battlekeeps.

Need more infoz on Battlekeeps. How do we build our own if there's only three in the world? This like the UO telewarping rush to the 13 castles allowed per facet per shard? Or is a Battlekeep assumed to be a serverwide thing? Or is it just a meta city with different guilds building their own part of it (and therefore requiring the deconstruct whatever they've built elsewhere)?

[Nerf]

I read it like a keep on DAOC, where it can change hands if someone else wants to take it.  Wonders read like relics to me.

ZOMG CONAN IS STEALING SHIT FROM DAOC SOMEONE SHOULD SUE THEM FOR NOT HAVING ORIGINAL IDEAS.

Really though, it sounds awesome, and if they fix assassin's they could be a real asset in pvp on the pve servers, since noone bothers with perception.

[WindupAtheist]

I get the impression lots of peeps can build "ordinary" battlekeeps, but that there will only be three "legendary" ones.

[Nerf]

Battlekeeps are in the border regions, which are the pvp areas on every server connected to the resource zones where your normal, unattackable cities live.

The Legendary battlekeeps will be attached to the main cities, they aren't built, they're already there, but I read it as players can build up a city or someshit around the legendary keep.  Wonders can be built by the takers of the legendary keep, give bonuses, and can be stolen by other alliances and moved to their cities.

Thats how I read it, at least.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Battlekeeps are in the border regions, which are the pvp areas on every server connected to the resource zones where your normal, unattackable cities live.

The Legendary battlekeeps will be attached to the main cities, they aren't built, they're already there, but I read it as players can build up a city or someshit around the legendary keep.  Wonders can be built by the takers of the legendary keep, give bonuses, and can be stolen by other alliances and moved to their cities.

Thats how I read it, at least.

Since border regions are just copies of resource regions it makes sense. the battlekeeps seem to already be built afaik, hence the big buildings in the center of each resource zone. you'll probably be able to build cities in the border region just like the resource zone but those are the pvp+ cities? seems pretty lazy though since they essentially just made two copies of each and says one is pve one is pvp.

[Nerf]

I don't think they'll stay carbon copies forever, it's quite obvious that pvp was tossed in at the last moment and not really fleshed out, and copying the resource zone was just the easiest way to get the border kingdoms in at launch.

[Brogarn]

I don't think they'll stay carbon copies forever, it's quite obvious that pvp was tossed in at the last moment and not really fleshed out, and copying the resource zone was just the easiest way to get the border kingdoms in at launch.

That's my theory as well.

[Falconeer]

Since border regions are just copies of resource regions it makes sense. the battlekeeps seem to already be built afaik, hence the big buildings in the center of each resource zone. you'll probably be able to build cities in the border region just like the resource zone but those are the pvp+ cities? seems pretty lazy though since they essentially just made two copies of each and says one is pve one is pvp.

Maybe I read what you wrote wrong, but as far as I know, Battlekeeps aren't build yet. If you go into any border kingdom now you'll see the three sposts to build a battlekeep as empty as the ones you use to build a PVE city.

It works like this: the first 9 guilds on every server to build a Tier 3 keep can claim a battlekeep. Just because they have a tier 3 keep, as simple as that. Now, they claimed the LAND where the battlekeep will be. They have to start building it exactly as a PvE player city! Still, in this state, you can be challeneged. When that happens you have to set a date and time for the siege, which sounds weird as you won't probably have much built to defend, but that is how it is supposed to work.

Thing is, other guilds/alliances need a Tier 3 keep too, to challenge your battlekeep. So, the scenario will be like this:

8 guilds hit T3 and cliam the 8 BK empty spots. They start building on it (to get the bonuses) and as soon as the ninth guild hit T3 they'll want to challenge one of the occupied BKs. It doesn't matter if the BK is fully built or not, only difference is that the more of a BK is built, the easier it is for the defending guild to... defend it.
Anyway, this whole mechanic is a good reason enough to race towards the T3 keep.

I have no idea how legendary BKs will work, I can only assume it will be an instance accessible by the 3 capitols for sieging purposes only (or showing off/sightseeing).

[Venkman]

Keep battles sound like city battles from SB. If I recall, you could waste anyone's tiny town whenever you wanted, but had to schedule a bane/tree event for he most improved cities. Going by vague memory here so I'm probably wrong. But if not, then the only difference between what AoC will be and what SB was is that in AoC you need to schedule all Keep assaults.

I can see players stocking up now for the inevitable land rush that follows, so they can build a Keep and other buildings/walls all roughly at the same time before getting attacked.

What we don't know is the details like:

How long do the recipients of a siege letter get before they need to respond?
Can they back out by paying off the attacker?
What if any are penalties for a failed siege?
What prevents siege spamming?

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, I'm an ass.

I'm usually so surrounded by so much PvE love here I get a little pissy at times. My last like 5 posts have pretty much been shit.

Everyone got annoyed by your flame but me. I thought it was all in good forum fun.

That out of the way, I was trying to point out how AEs - something that AoC thrives on as opposed to what was a throwaway spell in UO - will destroy the fugitive system as currently described.

The creators already said that "Checking your fire" was part of the game play they wanted players to manage. In fact, they said that even in the massive PvP sieges, that anyone not in your raid group, but on your side, will be able to be hit by you. Again, its part of the game they want players to mange themselves.

Its part of the gameplay of the game. Pve server or PvP server, the only change in those two servers is at what point in your toons life you engage in PvP, so any rule that comes out of PvP also apply to the PvE servers, trying to make a separation between the two server types beyond that is faulty.. I understand peoples concern with this, but again i think his response was right, check your fire, there are consequences if you do not. Please recall that in every interview ever, they said this game was patterned more after a FPS, or at least brings more FPS like considerations, and pacing than other RPG's. I think this would be one of them.

I think a lot of people are accustomed to bringing down the hand of god, or nuking with a 20ton mega warhead right in the middle of your own group with no consequences and everyone magically being immune to the death it just brought down in a 3m radius, and this isn't even that, you still have protections up to a point, after that point, you may wish to be careful.

Is it really to much to ask?

Also, i really do not think ONE time will get you a wanted stats, every description has been "Excessive" amounts of it happening. I think of it more like the grief system in Planetside in that regard, you need to really try.

Don't cast Fire field :) l2play

That's completely uncalled for forum trolling.

No, its a valid point. If you don't want to get caught like that...be aware of your surroundings. There is so much fucking handholding in games these days, to me it's refreshing when you basically have to use your head. Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.

The only real portion where slayer was incorrect, was the PvE server remark...because this rule set will apply there as well.

[slog]

Keep battles sound like city battles from SB. If I recall, you could waste anyone's tiny town whenever you wanted, but had to schedule a bane/tree event for he most improved cities. Going by vague memory here so I'm probably wrong. But if not, then the only difference between what AoC will be and what SB was is that in AoC you need to schedule all Keep assaults.

I can see players stocking up now for the inevitable land rush that follows, so they can build a Keep and other buildings/walls all roughly at the same time before getting attacked.

What we don't know is the details like:

How long do the recipients of a siege letter get before they need to respond?
Can they back out by paying off the attacker?
What if any are penalties for a failed siege?
What prevents siege spamming?

While it does vaugely remind me of SB, it sounds more like the Lineage 2 siege system.  Basically, in L2, you had to defend your keep during the weekend for something like 4 hours.  Guilds had to pre-register which side they were one.

That being said, I don't see this working well for 6+ months, if ever.  You can't just throw this stuff together like you would a PvE instance.  It takes a lot of time to flesh out the expoits, and you can't take shortcuts like you can with PvE mobs.  A good example is LOS exploits.  In PvE, you make the mobs teleport.  In PvP, you have to fix the actual problem.

[Venkman]

Yea, I'm wondering what their timeline is for this.

Again, its part of the game they want players to mange themselves

I personally love it. I'd actually have extended to everywhere altogether, including group. It reminds me of UO, where you better damned well pay attention.

They'd only need to make a few spells single target to balance it out. Or better yet, single target line of sight with manual targeting. I still don't get why games that have collision detection don't do this. Processor intensive? Aren't arrows line of sight manual targeting in AoC already? Man I gotta break beyond my Mage and Priest love...

[Mrbloodworth]

i love it too. i was wondering if anyone read my post, lol.

[Brogarn]

i love it too. i was wondering if anyone read my post, lol.

I read it and it sounds cool to me as well. I'm not an FFA PvP'er, but I was absolutely in love with RvR. This added bit of managing your spells or whatever depending on your surroundings is at the very least, intriguing.

[Lakov_Sanite]

i have to say this game doesnt seem to be designed well with friendly fire in mind. it seems like every caster is loaded down with aoe's and what about melee swinging their big broadswords? im not against the idea of friendly fire, i do like it but could it really work well with all the spells and abilities in aoc as is?

[Mrbloodworth]

Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.

[Slayerik]

i have to say this game doesnt seem to be designed well with friendly fire in mind. it seems like every caster is loaded down with aoe's and what about melee swinging their big broadswords? im not against the idea of friendly fire, i do like it but could it really work well with all the spells and abilities in aoc as is?

Sounds like it requires practiced tactics / skills. Use your knockbacks/stuns/aoe roots to keep range.

and makes single target DPS quite valuable as well if someone breaks the ranks. DD nukes and rangers could be key in battles due to not wanting to nuke your friends. This is all in theory at this point, but...hmmmmmm

[Venkman]

Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.

Green plz. Pure casters in other games melee when everyone else is dead and they don't want to go down without a fight. And even then it's usually evadeevadeevade because few games require casters to train in the weapons they only need for the stat adjustments anyway.

[Threash]

Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.

Green plz. Pure casters in other games melee when everyone else is dead and they don't want to go down without a fight. And even then it's usually evadeevadeevade because few games require casters to train in the weapons they only need for the stat adjustments anyway.

That was his point i think.  I havent played a caster in aoc but i think hes saying swinging your staff/dagger isnt a total waste of time.

[Venkman]

Shit, you know what i missed? The "as in other games", the "as" part. Take that out (or ignore it, as in my case) and it sounds like sarcasm.

Here's me, going to lern2read.