Massive update (PvP in June)

[Miasma]

I like my PvP in first person shooters where it belongs.  I can tolerate MMO PvP when it gets stripped away and turned into a crappy FPS type thing via battlegrounds but it's not very fun.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Who knows, really. I wont really care if I turn orange on accident anyways. If you get griefed excessively, l2report maybe...who knows.

Contradictions ftw.

PVP'ers, man where do I begin. First off you're the minority and when I say minority I don't mean more people like pve I mean there's like...10 of you. Now I don't mean people who enjoy pvp, no there are 'millions' of people who enjoy pvp. I myself love pvp(and here's the important part) on occassion, you see i play call of duty, medeal of honor before that, I play team fortress and the occasional mmo pvp and you know what? it's fun. On occasion it may even be considered a skill but then you have pvp'ers.

pvp'ers don't want skill based fair pvp, they want to gank. Oh, they say it's gank or be ganked, they say they don't mind other players having the ability to screw them over but that's not what they want and that's not what they believe will ever happen with regularity.  They want to fuck people over, plain and simple. There could be a myriad of reasons for it really, who knows and that's not really the point. What is the point is that you, pvp'ers are walking contradictions. You hide behind the labels of skill and fair but in the end you're only hurting yourselves.

First pvp'ers will say they want pure open no rules pvp and then when rules are introduced, they find ways to fuck people over within those rules. Then, when you say you don't like the rules it's lrn2play gtfo. It's a huge contradiction and in the end you are failing to realize your true desires, why not just say "i'd like to fuck people over, make a game where that's my objective" and boom you'll have nirvanah.

MMO will always be a horrible place for 'meaningful' pvp plain and simple. MMO's are never balanced, be it classes(i wonder how many tos are on the pvp servers) or be it gear which does NOT take skill to aquire. If you are playing an mmo for pvp you are doing it wrong, if you want to whip out that digi-cock and say you're the man then do so in other made for conflict games but in an mmo it only gives you negative points.

You, the pvp'er are the extreme minority and the shame is, you're also the loudest.

[Viin]

The pvp hate is funny. I'm actually on Slayerik's side - I think if you can't handle figuring out how to survive in the system without a tutorial telling you everything you should do, then it's not for you. And that's OK. But some of us actually enjoy exploring the system (pvp and pve) and learning it's ins and outs. Stale, simple systems are boring. Deep multi-branched systems are interesting. (Caveat: as long as they are logical and make some sort of sense - complexity for complexity's sake is retarded).

And that's why there is segregation. No big deal, that's just the way it is.

Also, no we aren't all into ganking. We just like to participate in a system where things can be surprise vs everything structured into some kinda online football game.

[schild]

Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.

[Slayerik]

You don't want to be like Nija. He's an exploitive, griefing jackass with a completely singular playstyle. If you want to be more like Hoax, go play spreadsheets in space.

But the problem is, you actually think I'm a carebear when I'm on a PvE server specifically because I want to BUILD A CITY AND THEN GO PVP IN THE BORDER KINGDOMS. I pvped as much as ANYBODY in SWG. I, in fact, built my entire city placement around easy access to PVP. But shortsighted design decisions fucked all of that up (I'm talking way prior to NGE).

Point being, you are indeed a generic frothing mouthbreather and need to tone that shit the fuck back. Also, cluebat, motherfucker.

Edit: We give grief titles to people we like and people we devestatingly hate, not one-note predictable white noise.

Oh I have played Eve for years. I like my fantasy setting FFA PVP though, sorry.

Problem with you is you judge a server type that you haven't played on. You can say as much as you want that you 'know how its going to be' but you don't.

You are just as predictable, but in your self-rightous own ways. There is your cluebat, motherfucker.

[Falconeer]

That's the PvP+ mindset.
You may not like it but it has dignity. It reeks of trolling but it's just a way of playing games. Which is 100% optional when a game has 2 different kind of servers.

I think people fail to understand that PvP+ servers/rulesets (not just in Conan) are supposed to be PAINFUL. There is NO WAY any kind of PVP+ experience can be easy, relaxing, peaceful, predictable. Basically, when you embark on a PvP+ experience you don't don't DON'T argue about the rules. It's a different beast and your opinion isn't requested. Rules are there, wrong or right fair or unfair it doesn't matter anymore. Rules are there and you play by it knowing in advance it will be glorious and painful.

I know some of you will never understand this but if you think you are a PvP+ kind of player, hence you want to play on a PvP+ server, check your whine-o-meter. If it scores anything over zero then you should think again. No matter how much you want to bend it, PvP+ is not for you.

Seriously, I am not trying to offend anyone or giving out badges. I am the disfunctional one, as such mindset got shaped back in the days when complaining was not an option (it was "play like this or don't play at all"), I just think that some people think they like the idea of open pvp, but when they face it and truly understand what it means, it's too late to admit they were wrong so the complaining or "constructive criticism" kicks in. PvP+ players are indeed half-masochists and they are ok with the rules of such servers, because everything adds to the challenge. Conan is great because it offers (it should) a fair amount of controlled and consensual PvP content even on PvE server. So just DON'T roll on PvP servers if you are not ready for pain. It sounds harsh but it's exactly how it is, and in my opinion it's exactly how it is supposed to be.

Whoever rolls a toon on a PvP+ server/game and starts complaining about anything is like someone going to a BDSM club for the first time thinking he/she knows it all plus it's a very cool thing to do, only to get all moral and leave in terror and disgust when things get serious and blood starts flowing. They don't have a clue about what they really want.



P.S: Yes, we are the minority. So what?

EDIT, cause I read it later: Lakov, your post is so full of fail it doesn't even deserve a reply. Geez, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor and Team Fortress in the same sentence with PvP? You sound clueless.

[Slayerik]

Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.

Generalize much? Jesus christ.

[Falconeer]

Schild, don't be clueless and generic you too. You should know that you are out of your element when it comes to open PvP.

"I read the book, saw the movie" isn't the same thing that actually doing it.

[tazelbain]

I think its funny to call AoC a PvP game when the PvP end game hasn't patched on to most of the servers.

EDIT:  Wrong thread, please mentally copy and paste this message into the other AoC is awesome/sucks threads.

[schild]

Falconeer, you totally missed the point, which I didn't expect. There are changes being made to the way classes work because of the PVP servers. The players on those servers and the servers themselves should be totally ignored in regards to OP and Imba. It should be based off the PvE game since that is the _VAST_MAJORITY_ not just a small number - but VAST MAJORITY - of what is going on. The mindset just makes people sound retarded on forums because they constantly feel the need to talk and defend their positions. Funcom is in the wrong here for listening to that subset. I'm not saying the PVPers are wrong. They're just predictable and frothy.

Edit:

P.S: Yes, we are the minority. So what?

In short, you don't get to vote. This isn't real life. This is a business. One where minority and majority make ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. Minorities should be treated as they are, not worth enough money to matter.

[Viin]

Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.

I agree a lot of PvPers are asshats and whine like babies. But then, there's always some group of players who whine the loudest .. which is why I avoid game forums in general.

When you have pvp built into (on top of, part of) a primarily pve game: yes, you will see this. Most changes are done in relation to the PvE game (it is the majority of the players after all) often with not-thought-of consequences for the PvP game they "supposedly" support.

Changing skill/item balance means you have to re-figure out how to kick Class B's ass with a Class D character in Situation Y. In general, PvE players only have to worry about one side of the equation (themselves), so they don't get as annoyed by it. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but any "group" of players you find that has a high ratio of teenagers and asshats to mature players is going to look bad to everyone else. Doesn't matter if it's WoW, EVE, AoC, chess, checkers, or Risk.

That doesn't mean *all of us* are asshats, it's just that a lot of the vocal pvper's are.

In short, you don't get to vote. This isn't real life. This is a business. One where minority and majority make ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. Minorities should be treated as they are, not worth enough money to matter.

Then why have a PVP+ server at all? If they aren't going to support the playstyle then they shouldn't have even bothered.

Edit: From a business standpoint, I'd be curious to know if AoC would have the reputation appeal it does if it launched and marketed without any PvP (including guild, etc on PvE servers).

[schild]

Then why have a PVP+ server at all? If they aren't going to support the playstyle then they shouldn't have even bothered.

PVP+ servers are humanity's last hope to quarantine those motherfuckers.

Edit: Actually, I agree. They shouldn't have bothered.

[Slayerik]

I'd really like to see how many thousands of AoC players are on PVP servers now. Since we are such a minority and don't even deserve having our input into a PvP game.

Maybe, just maybe, this game was designed to retain a solid niche of players...those liking MMO PVP. Maybe Funcom had the foresight (lol) to know that when it comes to PVE guys, they would lose them to WOTLK or w/e. The game was always advertised as brutal, mature, bloody. Claiming they should just overlook PVP balance in a game that will (someday) have a PVP endgame is some of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say dude. Get a grip.

[schild]

If that was the plan, every server would have been PVP+ or at least everywhere outside of town would've been PVP. But, oh, hey, that's not the situation. Shock. Awe. Balance is never coming. It's just completely unrealistic. Too many classes, not to mention balance has no place in MMOGs, not like you would be happy with at least. Inevitable truths, etc.

[Viin]

Actually, with the guild PVP stuff that could be what they were originally planning. The end-game could very well be guild driven game play.

Depending on how well that is received by the PvE servers, it could dictate what that end game is. If everyone hates it and they just want to do raids, then I bet we get a PvE expansion in a year. We'll see how it pans out.

[Falconeer]

Oh hey, I didn't miss points. I probably derailed, which is different. of course I wish for a functioning and possibly balanced PvP server/mechanic. But if this can't be the case, and a known PvP+ players tell you learn2playn00b then you should know it's not forum trolling. It's an hymn to what he is. Like it or not, minority exists and are often proud of their ways. That is what I was, pompously, trying to explain.

Personally, I am the same kind of player Slayerik is. Just without the l33t and the proud parts. Sign that in our sekrit super-minority loud club there's room for differences.
And no, doesn't matter how sensible your ears are to the PvP-Masoch voices. They are not the loudest nor the most obnoxious players out there. Not in my experience.
Nerf a raider, he'll squeal like a live animal being skinned. And they come in packs.
Nerf a PvPer, he'll adapt. Which was the whole point of the original l2play.

[Venkman]

The game started as PvP. The "endgame" for most of the game was intended to be PvP. As such, balancing the PvP first makes sense. But only in that context.

It's better than balancing the PvE and pissing off the PvPers you managed to attract with PvP that is at least trying something different than Arenacraft.

Whether it turns out better, or some chunk of the players leave, time will tell.

But there isn't much precedent for it as far as I can tell, not on the RPG side anyway.

[Lakov_Sanite]

AoC is as much a pvp game as EQ or wow, period.

Don't try to pretend it's mature or bloody or anything different. Omg you can cut someone's head off and there's tits...oh and the quest text was changed from kidnapped and tortured to kidnapped and raped. omg so adult.

MMO's are NOT pvp games, they are pve designed games with PVP switches and do you know why? because pve makes them money.

Now, some people are have differing opinions, they love to catass to 80 on the most overpowered flavor of the month class, they love to constantly reroll or re-spec to give them that little edge to pwn teh newbs. Some people love to grief and gank and tell people to lrn2play. That's fine, it's a big world and everyone has their opinions.

here's the part that blows you frigging mind:serious pvp'ers in mmo's are exactly the same as non pvp'ers.

you see it's all about time sinks and what we choose do to with them. I've heard slayerik say he hates rep grins but i bet you the minute tos get the nerf stick hard he will reroll to something better and that's ok. for pvp'ers it will always be flavor of the month or adapting and spending your time maxxing talents or grinding honor or getting corpse camped all day. For pve'ers its farming and raiding and gathering consumables and rep grinding. They are both different in their ways but also both timesinks and how people wish to spend their time.

There are however several problems with this co-existance. First off balance, it is highly improbable to ever balance anything when it comes to a game involving both pve-pvp, can't do it. Oh you can come close but it'll never be an equal play experience I.E all classes equally viable and useful and not needing three diff sets of gear. 

the pvp'ers say balance be damned because to them it just means rolling up another class or re-speccing and they like that. and the pve'ers believe balance is everything because to them it is.

None of this is anything you don't know but I think the biggest point of contention and what people don't understand is that if you want a game to be successful you have to make, design and yes balance it for pve first. pvp is and will always be a minority and one of aoc's major failings is it's trying to be everything to everyone, anyone who plays can tell it was designed as a stock pve game first but marketed as 'teh hardcore' later.

edit:darniaq, you say the game was built as pvp first? i call bullshit, everything from the ground up screams its another eq clone. it was 'marketed' as a pvp game perhaps but that was funcom pissing on your head and telling you it was raining.

[Morfiend]

I am just worried that they are trying to implement all this big shit, when so much of the core game is still not working correctly. Many class feats are so horrible or just straight up dont work. Core crafting elements are broken.

They really need to get all the class feats working first, and THEN start balancing. Otherwise its a moot point.

I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.

[Brogarn]

I am just worried that they are trying to implement all this big shit, when so much of the core game is still not working correctly. Many class feats are so horrible or just straight up dont work. Core crafting elements are broken.

They really need to get all the class feats working first, and THEN start balancing. Otherwise its a moot point.

I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.

Agreed completely. I find the entire idea behind PvP consequences intriguing, but seriously. Fix your shit first.

[Miasma]

The majority of people are going to hit level 80 within the next couple months, they are scrambling to try and give them something to do so they don't quit.

[squirrel]

I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.

Yup. PVP is irrelevant when the core game is fucked.

[d4rkj3di]

I'm fully confident that everything on the list in the press release will be bugged/broken/exploitable anyway. And I'll continue to play right on through, happily entranced by boobs and decapitations.

[Morfiend]

The majority of people are going to hit level 80 within the next couple months, they are scrambling to try and give them something to do so they don't quit.

I understand this. Very well. But they have started putting balance notes in the patches, and I would say upward of 30% of the feats in the game are ether completely broken as in dont work AT ALL, or are so pathetic as to have 0 impact.

If they start balancing now, its going to throw everything out of wack for when this shit does work.

[Falconeer]

blah EQ WoW switches blah.

Clueless much. I guess you were gone fishing when MMORPGs first came out. So, clueless. As in you really don't know what you are talking about but you like the sound of your clueless fingers typing. Stop making a fool of yourself.

[Slayerik]

you see it's all about time sinks and what we choose do to with them. I've heard slayerik say he hates rep grins but i bet you the minute tos get the nerf stick hard he will reroll to something better and that's ok. for pvp'ers it will always be flavor of the month or adapting and spending your time maxxing talents or grinding honor or getting corpse camped all day. For pve'ers its farming and raiding and gathering consumables and rep grinding. They are both different in their ways but also both timesinks and how people wish to spend their time.

Don't fucking tell me what I'd do in a game. I don't reroll shit. I rolled ToS cause I liked the idea of it (i never even played Beta) and when it gets nerfed, I'll still be playing it because its a cool class. I'll be fighting with my friends so it doesn't matter if I'm nerfed to oblivion I'll still make myself a useful part of the team, you can count on that.

I don't have the hours to re-roll even if I did wanna 'chase the OP' - WTF is the point anyways? You know how many classes I had in Wow? One, a priest.

UO - Tank mage like everyone :)
Neocron - PSI mage
SB - Mino Barbarian
AO - Meta Physicist

Anyways.....
I stick with what I roll. For better or worse. Especially now that I have a 40 hr/week job, a wife and 2 kids.

[Tarami]

Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this year, anyone got any details on that? 

[shiznitz]

Yeah, I'm an ass.

I'm usually so surrounded by so much PvE love here I get a little pissy at times. My last like 5 posts have pretty much been shit.

Everyone got annoyed by your flame but me. I thought it was all in good forum fun.

That out of the way, I was trying to point out how AEs - something that AoC thrives on as opposed to what was a throwaway spell in UO - will destroy the fugitive system as currently described.

[Threash]

Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this month, anyone got any details on that? 

Fixed it for ya, you messed up on the scary part.

[Tarami]

Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this month, anyone got any details on that? 

Fixed it for ya, you messed up on the scary part.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Kirth]

Here I'll give you a glimpse of the future, a random note from a patch after the fugitive system goes in:

• Players were receiving hits on there fugitive rating when sending or receiving a tell from a lower level player. This should be fixed now.

Drastic Enhancements Coming!  

[Venkman]

edit:darniaq, you say the game was built as pvp first? i call bullshit, everything from the ground up screams its another eq clone. it was 'marketed' as a pvp game perhaps but that was funcom pissing on your head and telling you it was raining.

I said the game "started" as PvP. No idea when they switched to the more PvE-centric approach that launched, but I suspect it was around when WoW hit the three million mark in US+EU territories. They also completely changed the first part of the game sometime in early 2007 to be more casual-inviting. Lots and lots of changes.

What is today feels like a diku clone.

Your other stuff about PvP is mostly spot on if you just concentrate on the PvP activity of fighting. What I was referring to the motivation behind PvP at all. Sure you don't need any per se. Throw some Arenas and a point system and the players will glom right on, bitching about fotm and gear all the way. But AoC was trying for something deeper, things like resource control, fighting over cities you built, etc. None of that made launch. None of that may ever actually make the game itself. They may find their audience only wants PvE with the occasional ganking. This could go any number of ways.

There's no one type of player any more than there is only one type of PvP. If there was, WoW would have them all and no new game would ever need be.

[LK]

The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific "wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Oh hay.  http://travian.wikia.com/wiki/World_Wonder

[schild]

The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific "wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Oh hay.  http://travian.wikia.com/wiki/World_Wonder

Wonders have been around in RTS and Civ games far longer than Travian had them. Not to mention they were, technically, the endgame in those a swell

[Falconeer]

More on PvP massive battles numbers, Legendary Battlekeeps, Alliances and customized flags and cloaks.

Kingship revealed - Huge upgrade planned!
Posted: - 13.06.2008

We will be doing a lot of improvements and additions to Age of Conan in the weeks to come, and we will be sure to tell you about it. But let’s also take this opportunity to gaze deeper into the glass ball, to see what awaits us in the future – later this year!

Okay, so we’re not ready to give you all the juice on it just yet – this is, after all, some months away from going in the game. But we want to lift the veil a little bit, as we feel that this is such a powerful community builder that it deservers some anticipation!

The tentative name for this update is Kingship, but that might change as we move close to patching it onto the servers. This is basically an update that will introduce some very groundbreaking new features into Age of Conan, such as guild alliances, legendary battlekeeps, and so-called Wonders of the World. And some other, secret stuff!

The Kingship upgrade will also be rooted in the Powerpoints system, and we will be introducing several new features and content. Here is some of what you can expect!

Guild alliances

We want to allow guilds to get together and form alliances, creating strong accumulations of power that can take on some of the biggest challenges on the server, and we will be employing various tools for them to create a strong common identity for the alliance.

Here is a list of some of those tools:
Alliance flag – you will be able to acquire a flag that you can carry around on your back, and this flag can be customized for you alliance.
Alliance cloak – you will also be able to acquire a cloak that you can customize for your alliance, showing everyone what gathering you hail from.
Alliance chat – of course, just as with guilds you will be able to share a common chat channel with all members of all the guilds in the alliance.
Alliance name – you will be able to select a name for the alliance, and that name will be shown after your guild name and your character name.
A guild alliance will be quite a political entity, and this among other things involves holding elections to choose alliance leaders and such. Rest assured, guild alliances will have plenty of tools at their disposal when they set out to conquer the known world!

Legendary battlekeeps

Already in the game your guild have the opportunity to build player cities and eventually also conquer battlekeeps. We will, of course, be improving these functionalities as well as we move ahead in the coming months. Kingship will also expand on this feature.

Situated next to the three big cities – Conarch, Khemi and Tarantia – will be something called legendary battlekeeps. Massive constructions that can be seen from inside the major cities themselves, and there will only be three of these in total in the online world – one for each capitol city. Conquering these battlekeeps will be the ultimate challenge!

Guilds will effectively have to team up with each other and become alliances if they want to have any chance of conquering a legendary battlekeep. These will be gigantic battles, and we are aiming for over 300 players to be involved in the battle simultaneously!

That also means we will be doing some technical improvements to the massive battle system to allow for this great number of players in one battle at the same time.

Wonders of the World

These battlekeeps will all have different benefits to provide the alliance that owns it, and they will all be visually very different from each other. You can customize and build upon your legendary battlekeep, just as you would with the “ordinary” battlekeeps.

Another feature we will be introducing with this upgrade is Wonders of the World. These are powerful constructions rooted deep in the identity of that nation (e.g. the “Golden Lion of Tarantia” for Aquilonia) and they look epic and magnificent. Each nation has two of these wonders, and they can be built in the legendary battlekeep for that nation.

Building these wonders is a huge effort for anyone in the alliance, and will involve a lot of team work. Once you have built the shell of the wonder in your legendary battlekeep, other guild alliances can steal it and bring it to their city – so you need to protect it!

The benefits of owning one, two or more of these wonders (can you steal all of them?) is beyond anything you can imagine, but those details are to be revealed at another time!

Looks a few days old but I missed it.