Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[LK]

I'm willing to give this game a chance.  I think that it's different enough to attract a steady flow of people willing to plunk down some green for a diversion.

 

How many times have I heard that?

[Shatter]

The games advertising has already slowed down and its crunch time for people to decide if they want to pay the $15/month or not.   Its only down hill from here

[Ghambit]

Red Alert:
Game population is already dwindling heavily.  Most fleets are already pretty ghost-townish, there's little to no lag anymore (even w/o server upgrades), and LFGs are proving to be more difficult these days.  

Let the crickets ensue.

Cryptic can recover if they crank up their content marketing, but as of today we still dont even have a viable death penalty nor much endgame to speak of.... blah blah blah.  (that's a broken record you're hearing in the background)   But hey!  We got a goovy survey!

[LK]

You can only shit out the same quality of game so many times before people wise up to you.

Sequels to games I've played to death don't get that much dedication from me. I've played a fuck ton of Modern Warfare 2 but Bioshock 2, Mass Effect 2, Gears of War 2, Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 (2...2... TWOOOOOOOOO) are all games I haven't either touched or will get to eventually despite their initial incarnations being Day 1 purchases with massive time invested into them.

What does that have to do with MMOs? They're all the fucking same game. I've already put a large portion of my life into that exact formula.

[Ingmar]

I noticed it is down to $40 on Steam as of yesterday. I was going to wait til it hit $20 to try it, but someone sent me a buddy key so I guess I have 5 days to mess around with it. Their direct downloader sucks, taking forever.

[Shatter]

I noticed it is down to $40 on Steam as of yesterday. I was going to wait til it hit $20 to try it, but someone sent me a buddy key so I guess I have 5 days to mess around with it. Their direct downloader sucks, taking forever.

OMG great idea!! use a shitty downloader and have a good downloader you can buy at the c-store!!  OMG someone hire me quick!

[Ingmar]

I noticed it is down to $40 on Steam as of yesterday. I was going to wait til it hit $20 to try it, but someone sent me a buddy key so I guess I have 5 days to mess around with it. Their direct downloader sucks, taking forever.

OMG great idea!! use a shitty downloader and have a good downloader you can buy at the c-store!!  OMG someone hire me quick!

They sort of already thought of that, their page for the downloader says "You should really probably download this from your electronic retailer instead of us" but as I'm just on a buddy key that's not an option.

[Riggswolfe]

Red Alert:
Game population is already dwindling heavily.  Most fleets are already pretty ghost-townish, there's little to no lag anymore (even w/o server upgrades), and LFGs are proving to be more difficult these days.  

Let the crickets ensue.

Cryptic can recover if they crank up their content marketing, but as of today we still dont even have a viable death penalty nor much endgame to speak of.... blah blah blah.  (that's a broken record you're hearing in the background)   But hey!  We got a goovy survey!

Well, I don't want a death penalty personally. This isn't the right game for typical MMO mechanics IMO. One comment though, this might be the first game where I don't give a shit if the population dies off. Since I can solo 90% of the game easily I don't know that I care how many other players are around.

[Shatter]

Well, for the pvp community that might not work out so well lol

[Riggswolfe]

Well, for the pvp community that might not work out so well lol

True, but unlike WAR I didn't pick up this game in hopes of a good PVP experience. I figure the PVP game will die off one way or the other because there is not much to fight about.

[Shatter]

Love this little gem

Basically one of the developers at Cryptic threatens to not post anymore info on what hes working on if people arent nice about it
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2205591&postcount=40

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys,

This is what happens in game development, it's the reason why we use "Soon" a bunch. I spent a little extra time making it extra cool, so its running a little late... When the video was made, that was the target date.

I'm giving you a update now so you know whats going on. If the thread turns into hate and bile, it will definately be the last time I give you a update on stuff I'm working on

[CmdrSlack]

Yes, because asking people to be civil about things is such a "take my ball and go home" move.

[Shatter]

Yes, because asking people to be civil about things is such a "take my ball and go home" move.

I find it funny that a company that admits its communications in its MMO's, especially CO has been abysmal that they would say something like this.  In other words he could of just said "be nice or we will go back to our normal communications with you"

[Nebu]

Hasn't past history taught developers that releasing information early is ALWAYS a bad idea?  You either subject yourself to unnecessary criticism or you inevitably fail to live up to your own hype. 

If you aren't named "Blizzard Entertainment" wait until things are finished and release a patch note.  You'll thank me later.

[Der Helm]

Yes, because asking people to be civil about things is such a "take my ball and go home" move.

Developers should never be allowed to talk to the unwashed masses that is their own customer base.

[Stormwaltz]

Basically one of the developers at Cryptic threatens to not post anymore info on what hes working on if people arent nice about it

They pay community reps to talk to the players. Any communication from actual developers is due to their personal interest in doing so, and on their time. If they don't feel it's worth their time, they have the right to stop doing so.

I've seen devs post things in anger and frustration that they should not have ("Shut up and send me by ten bucks a month, little man; "I disagree with what you said"). This was not one of those posts.

But then, I'm a dev. Take it with a salt lick.

[Fordel]

Dev's need to understand that once they START posting, they can never, ever, ever stop. If you aren't willing to make that commitment, don't post at all, just let your CM's know what you intend or whatever.

[Malakili]

Dev's need to understand that once they START posting, they can never, ever, ever stop. If you aren't willing to make that commitment, don't post at all, just let your CM's know what you intend or whatever.

Frankly, the problem is that anything said by a dev/CM is going to be analyzed into the ground.  It can be a measured and rehearsed statement about an upcoming patch, and an offhand comment over coffee about a random topic having to do with the game, and both are going to be treated basically the same in terms of legitimacy by the community.

I mean, people seem to forget that developers are just people working at their job.  I mean sure, they care and are emotionally (as well as probably financially) invested in the outcome, but its all very odd when I give it some real thought.  Not that I think it will change, but in some ways, I wish it would.  Personally, I prefer when communication is limited, as the speculation and insanity really wears on me.  Frankly, I generally try to avoid official forums unless there is a really specific bit of information I am looking for anyway.

[Calandryll]

Players are going to get upset when a company publishes a date and then misses it. That's par for the course and it's never going to change. Players are going to post when they are upset, and unless they are breaking the board TOS if you want to post you just have to take your lumps and move forward.

As far as devs posting, it depends on the company. Most good ones will have devs post as a part of a larger community strategy rather than just because they enjoy it. So in some cases, posting may actually be part of their job. I've never been a fan of just letting any dev who wants to post just go for it at their own discretion. And I say that even as a dev.

That said, I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the dev's post either. Sometimes it's good to remind players that we're imperfect humans.

[Shatter]

Players are going to get upset when a company publishes a date and then misses it.  

Then post a date and meet it for a change?  I wiah I had the option to just miss a due date in my job

[Sir T]

Players are going to get upset when a company publishes a date and then misses it.  

Then post a date and meet it for a change?  I wiah I had the option to just miss a due date in my job

Impossible. Anyone that's worked on any kind of software development project knows that the due dates that management demand are completely arbitrary and you might as well be reading Tea leaves. Software projects slip for any number of reasons. The fact that they are dealing with people that act like spoiled kids when a deadline slips is completely irrelevant to one of the most basic laws of software development.

In fact I'm sure a part of the reason a lot of games ship in an unfinished state is simply that management force games out the door by a certain date, finished or not.

[Malakili]

Players are going to get upset when a company publishes a date and then misses it.  

Then post a date and meet it for a change? 

Yeah, releasing a game on an arbitrary date when it isn't finished yet  because you had previously arbitrarily set that date has really had great results.

[Kageru]

I was reading one interesting thread on the STO boards where someone was picking apart their financial statements. The interesting thing being that Atari/Cryptic are in a fairly poor financial position and that they have another MMO slated for release in 2011. Limited ability to engage new staff, two existing games desperate for content and a third in development... surely that's not sustainable.

I'm assuming that CO is at best revenue neutral and that STO will be seeing some massive drops in subscriptions.

[Malakili]

I was reading one interesting thread on the STO boards where someone was picking apart their financial statements. The interesting thing being that Atari/Cryptic are in a fairly poor financial position and that they have another MMO slated for release in 2011. Limited ability to engage new staff, two existing games desperate for content and a third in development... surely that's not sustainable.

I'm assuming that CO is at best revenue neutral and that STO will be seeing some massive drops in subscriptions.

What sub plans is STO offering?  With Champions JUST about to hit the end of its 6 month subs period, its about to see another critical period of probably drop off.

I'm wondering what time lines we are looking at for STO.  Is it just the free month  + the yearly special thing? Or did the off other recurring plans as well?

[Triforcer]

I've seen devs post things in anger and frustration that they should not have ("Shut up and send me by ten bucks a month, little man; "I disagree with what you said").

Oh, cmon.  The second one singlehandedly justified the existence of the entire Lum the Mad diaspora, and remains the single greatest post ever.  

But those were back in the hardcore days of the genre, when devs could tell players to STFU and re-name troublemakers "a homosexual."  Sure, the second thing never actually happened, but the point is that in those wild west days 10 years ago IT VERY WELL COULD HAVE.  

[Xilren's Twin]

I noticed it is down to $40 on Steam as of yesterday. I was going to wait til it hit $20 to try it, but someone sent me a buddy key so I guess I have 5 days to mess around with it. Their direct downloader sucks, taking forever.

No kidding.  I gave up on that one and downloaded the beta client from another site that was much faster and it patched up just fine.  Just google it up.

[Calandryll]

Players are going to get upset when a company publishes a date and then misses it.  

Then post a date and meet it for a change?  I wiah I had the option to just miss a due date in my job

I'd love to meet the person who has never missed a date or made a mistake at their job.

Regardless, I never said players are wrong for getting upset. In fact, that was kind of my point. They are paying us money, if we tell them a date and we miss it, there are consequences. That doesn't mean they should be disrespectful. But developers shouldn't be surprised when players get upset either. None of this is new.

The better thing to do is to not post dates until everything is locked down. But then players get mad at that too. :)  And even then something can go wrong at the last minute.

[Murgos]

Then post a date and meet it for a change?  I wiah I had the option to just miss a due date in my job

Oh nos!  Patch got pushed back because large engineering projects are hard!  Oh, My Entitlements!  What'll I do?

[Grimwell]

Since we are on this tangent here, I think that as the MMO industry continues to mature, we will see fewer and fewer companies interested in allowing developers to post. That is a path fraught with danger as people who are not trained to have public speaking or writing ability tend to get 'off message' in a matter of letters and make the PR folks skeetchy.

The Communtiy folks aren't quite as skeetchy, they typically pour a little more booze in the coffee and get ready for a long day. :)

[01101010]

Since we are on this tangent here, I think that as the MMO industry continues to mature, we will see fewer and fewer companies interested in allowing developers to post. That is a path fraught with danger as people who are not trained to have public speaking or writing ability tend to get 'off message' in a matter of letters and make the PR folks skeetchy.

The Communtiy folks aren't quite as skeetchy, they typically pour a little more booze in the coffee and get ready for a long day. :)

Everytime I read this, I get an image:

Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers developers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

[Shatter]

Since we are on this tangent here, I think that as the MMO industry continues to mature, we will see fewer and fewer companies interested in allowing developers to post. That is a path fraught with danger as people who are not trained to have public speaking or writing ability tend to get 'off message' in a matter of letters and make the PR folks skeetchy.

The Communtiy folks aren't quite as skeetchy, they typically pour a little more booze in the coffee and get ready for a long day. :)

Its pretty sad when a company, and in this case pretty much every MMO company cant communicate to their subscribers effectively.  The whole idea of we would rather say nothing then give something has been old for a long time.  How many years have MMO's been on the market and this many years later no company has stepped up with an effective communication protocol, in fact it just gets worse as the industry gets larger. 

[Grimwell]

I'm going to counter that the heavy amount of developer interaction we have seen over the last decade is an anomaly, even in game development. It is not typical for the people who create a product to have such an active level of participation with their customers.

It is my personal and professional opinion that this deeper level of communication is a good thing; and one of the ways that MMO companies demonstrated that they were ahead of the curve even before we know how to say "Web 2.0" as a buzzword. I am also pragmatic enough to know that as time goes on more and more companies will not be willing to have it.

I'm also realistic about the impact of such open communications. When you talk to your customers on such an intimate level, their expectations of authority over your work rise and they become insistent about elements of your work due to this heightened level of connectivity. If your favorite band puts out a song you don't like, you don't pay for that download. If your favorite MMO release a patch you don't like, you can go to their forums, voice your negative views about the patch and then /sign a 'petition' to revert things back to the way they were before.

That kind of customer voice scares people. As MMO's become a mature business, the number of people who are scared will increase.

It does leave a nice spot for companies who are willing to have the deeper communications, warts and all - and I think it will bond them to their customers if they can manage to be honest and straightforward while they do it.

[Murgos]

ITT more information is bad and it's the developers fault for providing it.

[Shatter]

When I pay a monthly fee I expect there is someone working on something related to the game im paying for whether it be fixing bugs, developing content...whatever.  Just like if I pay a guy to put in a new furnace, I expect to be informed and up to speed on the progress of that project until completion.  People expect this type of service since its common...most of the time when you pay money for something constant information about it is part of that process, somehow MMO's seemed to have eluded this practice and have been getting away with it for over 10 years.  We pay $$ each month, thousands of people yet we can go for months in virtual information blackout.  I find it hard to segregate my paying an MMO company for "work" yet getting nothing back in terms of time lines, communication or planned development vs hiring someone to do a job at home or at work.  

[Murgos]

When I pay a monthly fee I expect there is someone working on something related to the game im paying for whether it be fixing bugs, developing content...whatever.  Just like if I pay a guy to put in a new furnace, I expect to be informed and up to speed on the progress of that project until completion.  People expect this type of service since its common...most of the time when you pay money for something constant information about it is part of that process, somehow MMO's seemed to have eluded this practice and have been getting away with it for over 10 years.  We pay $$ each month, thousands of people yet we can go for months in virtual information blackout.  I find it hard to segregate my paying an MMO company for "work" yet getting nothing back in terms of time lines, communication or planned development vs hiring someone to do a job at home or at work.  

You're confused.  You are, at the same moment, deriding the STO developers for not providing you with more information and deriding them for providing you with information.

Which is it?  Do you want to know what content is being worked on and when you can expect to see it or do you want them not to tell you anything until it's done?

You need to wipe your chin, you have some froth on it.