DC Online to show its face

[Dtrain]

Well, we all know that B+R are gay spelled GAI, and there's a heart over the I, but look at this picture:



Robin looks like he's 12 and Batman looks juiced.

I have a worry... about the butman.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Lest we forget...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJWpmPGCR1c

[Nebu]

It's bad enough that we live in a society where men want women to all look like 12 year olds... now they want their superheros to look like 12 year olds too?  Oof.

[Numtini]

Well, we all know that B+R are gay spelled GAI, and there's a heart over the I, but look at this picture:

The local drag king troop do a great homoerotic batman and robin thing to the Partridge Family's "I Think I Love You."

[HaemishM]

Lest we forget...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJWpmPGCR1c

Goddamnit, I HAD forgotten much of that. And I was happy with that outcome.

[WayAbvPar]

God I forgot Clooney was Batman. Thankfully it didn't scuttle his career.

[UnSub]

The DCUO (I so want to call it DUCO) trailer.

The combat looks choppy and unsynchronised.

Being able to run up a vertical plane (i.e. the front of a building) does look cool though. Also the Crackdown associations I've heard about it are a positive thing.

My big question is about targeting - how do you switch from targeting Bizarro to targeting the truck over his head in the heat of battle, especially in a target-rich (i.e. lots of cars, trucks, etc) environment? MMO targeting schemes tend to be clumsy, console targeting schemes also tend to be clumsy without softlock... see where I'm going?

[Count Nerfedalot]

My big question is about targeting - how do you switch from targeting Bizarro to targeting the truck over his head in the heat of battle, especially in a target-rich (i.e. lots of cars, trucks, etc) environment? MMO targeting schemes tend to be clumsy, console targeting schemes also tend to be clumsy without softlock... see where I'm going?

Well, something like AC's targeting implementation might be a solution.  Rather than just a TAB key to cycle through targets, they had three (or was it four) sets of keys for cycling through various target types: enemies, friends, objects, etc. 

One potential issue though. I haven't seen anthing specific to DCUO yet, but one problem with having some interactive objects in a game world is the frustration of it not being obvious WHICH objects you see are or aren't interactive.  So the table and chair are interactive, but the TV, refrigerator and armoire aren't? wtf? 

[UnSub]

My issue with having different keys cycle through different types of objects is that it doesn't work well for a PS3 version.

I'd suspect that soft lock and a crosshair for most ranged attacks could work, but I don't know if they've taken that direction.

Oh, as an internet rumour: SOE is still deciding the payment model for DCUO, but current thinking is against having a sub fee and instead having a box fee and additional costs for downloadable content.

EDIT: too many wordz

[Falwell]

Well most of the character models turned out much better than I'd hoped after seeing the initial screenshots. Bane, Batsy, BBB, and Ollie in particular. Joker stilll looks like ass though.

Saw a lot of "clunky" moments in that clip. Poor animations and movement. I guess the big question is how far out is this? If this still has another 2 years to cook, I'm far less concerned. If they plan on pushing this out within the year, well, now I'm worried.

[Ragnoros]

If i was Sony I would not have released that video.

Fucking animations people. I don't care how much bump-mapped-pixel-shaded whatever the fuck you have. If the first time shit starts to move it looks unrealistic, fake or just plain bad it's going to be immersion breaking. More then most any art direction.

And tell that to the guys over at Cryptic also. Superheros are all about movement and action. THIS MUST NOT LOOK STUPID!

Go look at the old Justice League Cartoons. The art was very simple, but they rarely spared any effort on the animations, they were always well done.

[MisterNoisy]

Go look at the old Justice League Cartoons. The art was very simple, but they rarely spared any effort on the animations, they were always well done.

Seriously - cel-shaded Bruce Timm-style visuals and fast action combat = low system overhead, a familiar look and fun gameplay.  Why they went the 'ZOMG look at the innumerable misshapen polys (WTF is with that Joker model?)' route I have no idea.  Batman: TAS, JL/JLU visuals would have been just fine, but they went with the gawdawful shit they demoed instead.

[UnSub]

Based on that clip, I'd say it would be foolish to launch before 2010.

That gives them time to see what ChampO does and theoretically rip off the best parts.

[mutantmagnet]

Based on that clip, I'd say it would be foolish to launch before 2010.

That gives them time to see what ChampO does and theoretically rip off the best parts.

One MMO waiting on the launch of another mmo?

Is this comedy night at f13? 

[Margalis]

By the way in the clip they showed you can see Joker concept art and it does match the in-game art. They just drew him to look like a retard. Why not just copy the cover of the Killing Joke?

Yeah the animation was terrible, while flying people didn't animate at all and much of the movement was really jerky. I suppose the models themselves were average but uninspired.

I wonder why they didn't show The Agency instead. That's been in development for a while now.

[HaemishM]

Not overly impressed with the video myself. The models do look better in motion (except the Joker who is just epic fail incarnate) but the animation was choppy and reminded me of the worst parts of COH combat. The fact that they mostly showed existing characters the player can never take control of makes me concerned about the individual customization options. The trailer was only better than the assy screenshots by a marginal amount. Needs more cooking and thinking, less "ZOMGJIMLEE!!!"

[Nevermore]

Not overly impressed with the video myself. The models do look better in motion (except the Joker who is just epic fail incarnate) but the animation was choppy and reminded me of the worst parts of COH combat. The fact that they mostly showed existing characters the player can never take control of makes me concerned about the individual customization options. The trailer was only better than the assy screenshots by a marginal amount. Needs more cooking and thinking, less "ZOMGJIMLEE!!!"

That's pretty much how I felt.  Most of the models looked pretty good (exceptions being the Joker was ass incarnate and Robin looked like crap as well) but once they started moving around the game looked very choppy and slow.  Will you even be able to make your own characters?  From the video it looks like it might be more of an online Freedom Force type game, where you pick preexisting characters and log into instanced missions with and against other players.  It doesn't look like there's any persistent world.

[UnSub]

It is, apparently and despite 3 years in development, still early days for DCUO. One article I saw talked about the next build adding in pedestrians and other such things to the city environment.

And yes, I felt Jim Lee was oversold. Especially since he's been giving a lot of work to his Wildstorm artists to do instead of doing it himself (not that he needs to do it himself, but he's a comic book artist and as close as DCUO comes to name talent, so you'd expect that he would be doing it).

[UnSub]

Based on that clip, I'd say it would be foolish to launch before 2010.

That gives them time to see what ChampO does and theoretically rip off the best parts.

One MMO waiting on the launch of another mmo?

Is this comedy night at f13? 

I don't get your point.

EDIT FOR ... SOMETHING: SOE announce that DCUO has been internally released! What's that? All other companies call this 'alpha'?

[mutantmagnet]

My point is that waiting on other MMOs before releasing yourself is a hilariously dumb strategy. Every mmo I've kept tabs on has gotten massive delays (hey to you Darkfall, TCOS and now Mythos). Any team is grossly incompentent if their project can't follow through on a plan until someone else releases first.

Not only are you giving up on the first mover's (possible) advantage you may be putting your budget in jeopardy by sitting on your hands.

[stu]

Lest we forget...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJWpmPGCR1c

                                                       Batgirl

                                         What should we do now?

                                                       Robin
                                         Pray!

[UnSub]

From here:

Cao: Our goal with DC Universe Online is to feel like they've stepped into the DC Universe. Not only have they stepped into the DC Universe, but they've stepped into the DC Universe through the eyes of Jim Lee. Look at any of his most recent works - Batman: Hush, Superman "For Tomorrow". It's cool, it's edgy, and it's perfect for the demographics we're aiming for with this game.

Having seen the screenshots... no. Lego Batman looks more edgy than DCUO.

Also, apparently the writers of the series Jim Lee worked on mean nothing.

[HaemishM]

Also, apparently the writers of the series Jim Lee worked on mean nothing.

Well, he did found Image Comics. I can't think of a place where writers mattered less than early Image.

[Falwell]

New article(s) about this in USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2008-07-21-dc-universe-lee_N.htm

Basically a short Q&A with lee about the game and his MMO history. Nothing very revealing, but noteworthy none the less.

[UnSub]

IGN has some more videos.

Pretty. Superspeed running looks really good, especially flipping over vertical surfaces.

However, combat still looks really, really choppy and unfocused.

[Evildrider]

The game looks like it still needs some definite work. 

I'm not sure if the whole DC thing will draw me in though.  Right now I'm still looking forward to Champions Online.
However I wish there was a Marvel MMO coming out still. 

[eldaec]

Video makes it look like CoH junior.

[UnSub]

At some point I plan to write something up about DCUO vs ChampO vs CoH/V somewhere.

DCUO just keeps pounding the "fight alongside Jim Lee's Batman!" angle - it's all IP focussed. That's nice for the first 15 minutes, but what players get into is developing their own character(s).

Plus the combat looks quite stationary when it comes to actually fighting. ChampO's comparative video looks a bit smoother and more AOE focused.

[eldaec]

DCUO just keeps pounding the "fight alongside Jim Lee's Batman!" angle - it's all IP focussed.

Apart from the obvious problems of a MMOG heavily focussed on stories already told, I really think they are overestimating the number of people who know or care who the fuck Kim Lee is. I for one have no clue, and no wish to be enlightened.

[Evildrider]

DCUO just keeps pounding the "fight alongside Jim Lee's Batman!" angle - it's all IP focussed.

Apart from the obvious problems of a MMOG heavily focussed on stories already told, I really think they are overestimating the number of people who know or care who the fuck Kim Lee is. I for one have no clue, and no wish to be enlightened.

Most people into comics are going to know who Jim Lee is, and that's going to be the biggest target audience for this game.

[Engels]

Geeze, the city art looks identical to CoH. Were they even trying? Gameplay doesn't look as good as CoH, but its impossible to tell from that rather lame demo.

[eldaec]

Geeze, the city art looks identical to CoH. Were they even trying?

I hear they hired Wim Lee.

[Venkman]

This is the funny part about all the paid-media coverage. Almost none of them are pointing to the very obvious ripoffs of CoH. They've got the same archetypes, the same origin choices, the same categories of abilities, the same types of abilities, the special effects even look the same (SuperSpeed looks almost exactly the same iirc), and heck, even the world itself does too.

However, having said all that, I didn't hate CoH. They were on the edge of being almost awesome, kinda like AoC, but with some dumb adherence to bad ideas. if SOE can keep the console-esque controls, make this work on the PS3 too, and don't screw it up with the old skool grind thinking, they might have a hit. The IP will move boxes, but the superior gameplay will keep players. As long as its superior.

[Margalis]

Most people into comics are going to know who Jim Lee is, and that's going to be the biggest target audience for this game.

Jim Lee hasn't done a whole lot of significant work in comics since the 90s and his current reputation is that of a slacker. Creating a hugely expensive game with a target audience of "people who know who Jim Lee is and think his involvement in a project is awesome" is incredibly dumb.

Marketing a game to people as "Batman is cool", sure that works. "Jim Lee is cool" not so much.

This is the funny part about all the paid-media coverage. Almost none of them are pointing to the very obvious ripoffs of CoH. They've got the same archetypes, the same origin choices, the same categories of abilities, the same types of abilities, the special effects even look the same (SuperSpeed looks almost exactly the same iirc), and heck, even the world itself does too.

I listen to the 1up podcasts and I think those guys honestly don't know all that much about CoX. Nor should they really, it's a niche game in a genre that apart from one title is niche itself.

[Venkman]

I was thinking more of the article in PC Gamer this month. Same difference really though. If anyone knows anything about MMOs, enough to be talking about any other than WoW that is, they've heard of or played CoH. Even aside from recognizing the similarities in all of the details, it being a generic comic MMO by itself would be enough of a comparison. It'd be like making a fantasy MMO before WoW and not at least referencing EQ1.

You've got a point though. In popular media, WoW is often seen as year zero for MMOs, with "B.C." being everything through EQ2, and "A.D." being anything that follows (unless it was developed prior to WoW and is an obvious throwback like VG). We joke about the newbies seeing WoW as the "first" in the same way veterans joked about newbies saying "UO" was the first in the same way newbies were mocked for thinking Bohemian Rhapsody was that pretty cool song from Wayne's World.

Damned kids. Get off my lawn!