Remember that other upcoming MMO? Last class in WAR revealed.

[Murgos]

One thing I really noticed in the open beta was how strongly you were channelled onto paths, at least in the newbie zone. No wandering off wherever you felt like it. That feels very gemey to me. "This way to your next points pinata". In contrast, in the WoW newbie zones, you can wander where you want and get into trouble.

Really?  WoW was about as linear a feel as anything I've ever played.  Go here now, okay you're done there now go over there, once you're done there move over to that spot.  Just because there is a 5-10 second pause as I go to those different areas in AoC doesn't make it feel any less open to me.

[Venkman]

In WoW you could choose to follow the quest path. In AoC Tortage area, you don't have much choice. The first, err, 5 levels I think it is, you go from beach down path to gate down path to Pick village, back up path to gate, gate through gorillas to Tortage front gate. Then is when you start the WoW cycle of following the quest markers if you want.

It's actually a pretty good premise for first time users. It focuses the user just on what they need to know at that exact moment. You need to know how to walk, then talk, then use a weapon, and are somewhat restricted from doing anything else. You could walk up the beach to kill the sailers before talking to the chick in shackles. But in order to progress to Tortage (the first quest you get, which is an automatically-begun dialog), you need to talk to her anyway.

It only feels restrictive the third time through.

[eldaec]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

Don't see the problem. Collision Detection for enemies only.....problem solved.....

That would be incredibly dumb in a PvP game.

Why?

Only problems with this I can think of are the stack problem, which is easily solved by not pussying out on aoe code like SB did, and instead letting aoes hit an unlimited number of targets within the radius; and alternating retreating front lines to screw up melee targetting - which is easily solved by a damage multiplier on retreating targets.

I can see more issues in an open PvP game where you don't know who the enemy is, but that doesn't apply here, or does it?

[Hellinar]

Really?  WoW was about as linear a feel as anything I've ever played.  Go here now, okay you're done there now go over there, once you're done there move over to that spot.  Just because there is a 5-10 second pause as I go to those different areas in AoC doesn't make it feel any less open to me.

One of the things I enjoy in WoW is exploring areas long before I am "supposed" to. So I don't follow the official trail much. In WoW there usually isn't much to stop you wandering where you like, at least outdoors. As Darniaq says, in AoC its pretty much a physical constraint. But I only played till level 13. If it broadens out after that, OK.

[Lantyssa]

The pre-20 game is very different from the post-20.  There are plenty of places to wander about once out of Tortage.

For those that think AoC doesn't allow exploration before then, have you been through all the Undertombs, the Archeon Ruins, and White Sands?  Those are all decent-sized areas this early in the game with lots of nooks and crannies.  They're not huge, but you'll find the next areas too large.  If you haven't seen the Gorilla Queen on an isolated island, I'm not sure you've done all the exploring you think you have.

[Signe]

With the exception of some bosses who generally don't give you anything when you defeat them, there isn't anything to do in those nooks and crannies, for the most part.  The one thing that I hate in game, are doors that you can't open!  I'm glad to find interesting looking places but it would be nice if there were also interesting things about them.  Maybe if you could start a quest in them or find an NPC with a story... anything would be better than pretty stream, interesting ruins, useless boss.

[Slayerik]

I care as little about WAR as most the people in this thread....from the looks of it. Autoattack, no thanks.

Might as well change the name to "WAR...How will it Instance compared to AoC"

[Signe]

I'm looking forward to WAR.  I very much like the look of it.

[Rasix]

Yes, back on subject:

I really hate elves.  I don't think I care much for white lions with elf ears either.

Enjoy your Siegfried and Roy class. Big axes can't save this one.  If I end up playing WAR, Order is definitely out of the question. 

[Signe]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

[Kirth]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

Bad news...

Greenskins are genderless, they reproduce via spores or something.

[eldaec]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

Bad news...

Greenskins are genderless, they reproduce via spores or something.

Orcs are genderless, but it is 40k Orks you are thinking of with the spores.

Orks are sentient fungus. The precise mechanics of reproduction have been retconned more than once, but they have, at times, involved the release of spores.

Orcs method of reproduction has never been officially determined, similarly the relationship between Orcs and Orks is officially unknown (as is the wider relationship between the Warhammer fantasy world and the 40k universe)

[Hoax]

Actually there are female orcs in Blood Bowl. True story.

[Murgos]

I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

 

[Signe]

I know Orcs and Gobs are genderless.  That doesn't mean I don't want slutty armour for them or that I won't give sexy girl names like Pusetta and Snoterella.

[Murgos]

Bad news...

Greenskins are genderless, they reproduce via spores or something.

I'm kind of wondering if you realize she's talking about this in slutty armor.  Reproduction ain't in it.

[Fraeg]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

  and all... but Squig Herding to victory is the path for me  and the dorf engineers are really really fucking cool.'

I have to admire or give props to a company that does pvp with so many classes that don't have a direct equivalent in another team/realm.  Balance is a nightmare, but I think they learned from some of Daoc's major balancing issues.

I do need to upgrade my computer :P

And i dont' know wtf people are talking about when they mention "all the instancing in WAR"

[Numtini]

Why is every genderless race male?

[Trippy]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

and all... but Squig Herding to victory is the path for me  and the dorf engineers are really really fucking cool.'

I have to admire or give props to a company that does pvp with so many classes that don't have a direct equivalent in another team/realm.  Balance is a nightmare, but I think they learned from some of Daoc's major balancing issues.

I do need to upgrade my computer :P

And i dont' know wtf people are talking about when they mention "all the instancing in WAR"

Stop talking about your Beta experience.

[Triforcer]

Although the Dorf Engineer thing really fascinates me, I'm all for being a gob or an orc.  I'm hoping for slutty goblin armour, too. 

  and all... but Squig Herding to victory is the path for me  and the dorf engineers are really really fucking cool.'

I have to admire or give props to a company that does pvp with so many classes that don't have a direct equivalent in another team/realm.  Balance is a nightmare, but I think they learned from some of Daoc's major balancing issues.

Every class has a karmic pairing.

Sorc=Bright Wizard (Glass cannon)

Swordmaster=Black Orc (progression mechanic tank)

Magus=Engineer (turrets)

Witch Hunter=Witch Elf (combo melee DPS)

White Lion=Squig Herder (pet DPS, although the first is melee and the latter is range)

and so forth.  Check out Massively's weeklong WAR feature for the latest rundown on everything.  Although given how supposedly different WoW racials made identical classes, even a few different skills might make the gameplay of the karmic twins different.

[stray]

I rather like that... Hopefully it keeps on working if/when Skaven or whatever make it in.

[FatuousTwat]

Why is every genderless race male?

Haven't played Mass Effect?

[Falconeer]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

Don't see the problem. Collision Detection for enemies only.....problem solved.....

Fixed in the last patch. You can duck and get past any player in a non-pvp context. In pvp, it's more than fair to block people.

That would be incredibly dumb in a PvP game.

[Brogarn]

I'm having serious fun in AoC but that does not wipe out any desire to play WAR and I'm very excited about it. As a DAoC fan, I'm anxious to see what Mythic's next game looks like and how it plays.  I also really like what I'm reading on Massively. Can't wait!

[Megrim]

Why is every genderless race male?

/flex

 

[Lantyssa]

|--- Macho --- Male --- Female ---|
        +1           0             -1

This diagram shows how male falls in the middle of the gender spectrum and represents genderless entities.

[Lakov_Sanite]

|--- Macho --- Male --- Female ---|
        +1           0             -1

This diagram shows how male falls in the middle of the gender spectrum and represents genderless entities.

ow, my penis

[kaid]

In 40k the orks are all a bunch of spore thingies that bring their ecosystem with them wherever they go the squigs and fungus they eat goes as well its the ork way of terraforming built into them by the brain boyz before the plague killed off their really smart ones.

In warhammer fantasy I am not sure if they were ever explicitly said to have no females but other than the cheerleaders for bloodbowl I have never seen any mention about any female orks at all.

Still it almost kinda make sense though why orks get goblins on their side as well since instead of making a male and female model they got orks and goblins. I am torn I really want to play an goblin shaman or squig herder but I also want to try a dwarven engineer. I know the magus plays a similar role to the dwarf but I just could not have as much fun yelling they are sappin mah sentries with a magis.

Yelling they are sappin mah flaming demon in TS will just get me laughed at.

[Ookii]

I couldn't imagine AoC without instancing, you wouldn't ever be able to kill a goddamn thing.

[Triforcer]

I couldn't imagine AoC without instancing, you wouldn't ever be able to kill a goddamn thing.

How did every other MMO survive with only one instance of each outdoor zone until AoC taught us that not instancing was impossible?

[Murgos]

I couldn't imagine AoC without instancing, you wouldn't ever be able to kill a goddamn thing.

How did every other MMO survive with only one instance of each outdoor zone until AoC taught us that not instancing was impossible?

Either near instant respawns or obscene camps.  Either option pretty much sucks.

[Venkman]

Exactly. AoC's instancing is all load balancing related, like EQ2. It isn't a terrible implementation in the outdoor adventure zones. It just sucks in the instances with the Bosses, for which we have been taught that keeping those as public spaces sucks and leads to server calendars, killstealing and ninjalooting. Which happens in AoC. Again, it's like 5 years ago all over again.

[Triforcer]

I couldn't imagine AoC without instancing, you wouldn't ever be able to kill a goddamn thing.

How did every other MMO survive with only one instance of each outdoor zone until AoC taught us that not instancing was impossible?

Either near instant respawns or obscene camps.  Either option pretty much sucks.

Sorry, I'm not buying that.  EQ, UO, LOTRO, SWG, and WoW seemed to do ok. 

[schild]

None of them "did OK."

Everyone bitched and moaned about it there also.

[Triforcer]

I'm not talking about dungeon or boss instances, I'm talking about outdoor grinding zone instances.  None of those games had them.

In WoW, for example, I liked world pvp.  I would hang out in the same couple zones and continually meet the same cast of characters.  It felt like a community.  Whereas in AoC, you are in a different instance every night,and you can't build any interesting PvP rivalries because POOF!!! Your opponent is gone.


And on the PvE side....trying to get a PUG group to come to the same place at the same time was bad enough.  Now there is a dimensional axis to that retardery.  A couple weeks ago, before I cancelled, I spent ten minutes teaching five people who didn't understand instances that although we were all in the same place, THEY WERE ALL IN DIFFERENT FUCKING DIMENSIONS.