Help me with a project? (SOE related)

[Numtini]

See if you can find the Kunark expansion that doesn't include everything else.  I would have bought Kunark for 25 or 30 bucks but when the price was 40 and there was no option to get it cheaper with out all the stuff I already own I pretty much said screw it, and decided not to support that business model.

They had an EOF version alone and it was the same price as the EOF package that included the previous expansions. That resulted in a lot of people being told to call the CSRs or so I remember The reality is that the Kunark pack was $40. If they didn't include the others, you were still going to pay $40, but a lot of new players were just plain not going to play the game.

[SuperPopTart]

I've got an uber top secret project in action at work that can be summed up as "Why people quit playing the game!" since it is usually wise to look at that sort of thing, and exit surveys are not nearly as fun as up close and personal comments from people not afraid to say "Because the Elves didn't shit Unicorns." (Imagine that for a moment...)

So, if you wouldn't mind being quoted/linked in an internal document, I'd love your feedback in this fun (?) and easy (for me to process) format:

Game Title:
When You Played:
Your 'Main' Character:
Why You Quit:

Please be honest, unless I'm the reason you quit, then make up some other sort of answer eh? I don't need to get fired for my report.  If you are still playing, twist that into a 'why I still enjoy it' answer if you please.

It's highly likely that I won't be able to share the finished document, but I'll give some kind of feedback when I'm done.

Game Played: EQ1 and EQ2
When You Played: From the beginning until present with multiple breaks in between.
Main Character: 70 Druid
Why I Quit:
1. Because your Guide Program was corrupt. If I could go back and retrieve my series of e-mails during the time I was in that program, you'd be mortified.
2. Because SOE has a serious issue with class balance.
3. Because your customer service is absolutely horrendous.
4. Because the GM's leave the guides effectively without any tools to help "govern".
5. Le Grind. Seriously? Hell levels at every 5th level is total crap. It's the 4th and 6th of each level. We aren't stupid.
6. Exploits. Really? There is an exploit in the Karanas that is STILL there and has been there since launch yet you expect us to not use it and then ban us for it when we do. Hi? Please to take these out of the game. Thanks. Otherwise, just leave people alone.  This goes for a varied amount of other bugs and exploits that you guys "let slip". You are directly responsible for the banning of a lot of accounts due to primarily an oversight on your part.
7. The constant release of expansions. - Listen, honestly, it's great you put out new content but if you'd just improve your current content we'd be blissfully happy. I'd take a graphics engine upgrade and better storytelling over a new expansion any day of the week. Call me crazy but..yeah.

I'll add to this later. However it needs to be said I am as of now a current player and although things are getting better..
They could be much improved upon.

[Lantyssa]

Game Title: Star Wars Galaxies
When You Played: Launch for 13+ months; resub for three or so months ending days before NGE announcement; 1-2 months after introduction of Beast Master during NGE period; board vet since April 2001
Your 'Main' Character: Lantyssa, a Bothan Creature Handler + Ranger/BE/dabbler in everything
Why You Quit: Burnout from leading a PA.  The Combat Rebalance never materializing and game bugs caused a lot of venting of frustrations and people trickling away.  Broken promises (CH revamp of December 2003 starting a three part rebalance that never happened, except for gutting CH power).  The resub was great fun since I was playing JTL, however the ground game wasn't holding me due to its attrocious state and the CU not addressing any of the real problems.  The NGE forcing class roles and levels killed most of my interest for a year and a half.  I returned to try the Beast Master and dabbled with other professions, but it couldn't hold my interested like the freedom of the old system.  Also with all the problems a hybrid BM skill tree had (should have been its own profession), a patch that fixed quite a bit was reverted and made worse in the next incremental publish.  The real problems still aren't addressed (insanely high resource requirements, too much interdependence for every BM required item, terrible grind, significant loss of ability for little gain).


Game Title: Everquest 2
When You Played: January of 2008 for two months
Your 'Main' Character: A Bruiser and a Shadow Knight
Why You Quit: It was an okay game, but the setting didn't really hold me.  Things felt like they were starting to become a grind in the mid-30s.  I'm tired of high-fantasy.  My friend whom I was playing with stopped playing.


Game Title: Planetside
When You Played: A month or two before the Reserves Program ended
Your 'Main' Character: New Conglomerate
Why You Quit: I'm not big on first person shooters as a primary game.  The Reserves Program ended, so I not incentive for playing casually.  The fee was also raised to $15 a month.  At $5 I would consider it for a semi-persistant world without a huge amount of character development or content, but at $15 there is no way.

[WindupAtheist]

...corrupt... serious issue... customer service is absolutely horrendous... Hell levels... total crap.... Exploits... I'll add to this later.

However it needs to be said I am as of now a current player...

STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE.

[SuperPopTart]

...corrupt... serious issue... customer service is absolutely horrendous... Hell levels... total crap.... Exploits... I'll add to this later.

However it needs to be said I am as of now a current player...

STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE.

lol No way, I'm actually enjoying playing.

[Grimwell]

Thanks  for all the replies so far. I'm going to grab a few quotes for the doc and put them to good use. :)

[schild]

Guides shouldn't exist. Volunteers shouldn't exist.

It's all fucky.

Not liking an inherently flawed program seems a little too hindsight 20/20 when it should've been foresight 20/20.

[HaemishM]

Guides shouldn't exist. Volunteers shouldn't exist.

It's all fucky.

Not liking an inherently flawed program seems a little too hindsight 20/20 when it should've been foresight 20/20.

It was 1999. We might as well have been shitting in the woods and beating two rocks together to make fire in MMO terms.

[SuperPopTart]

Yeah well at least they were consistent. A few years later and I tried again.

Same freaking day.

[Morat20]

Thanks  for all the replies so far. I'm going to grab a few quotes for the doc and put them to good use. :)

Which quotes? We need to know in order to fuel basless speculation.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, while we understand we will likely never see that document, our own comments should be fine with your superiors. 

[eldaec]

Game Title:
EQ1

When You Played:
Around the time Luclin was added in, for a few months.

Your 'Main' Character:
Ranger

Why You Quit:
No fun at all solo, and because I joined so late I couldn't find enough groups or a guild with enough people my level actually playing the game (rather than twinking it)



Game Title:
DAoC

When You Played:
Launch, to 3 years after that.

Your 'Main' Character:
A cleric.

Why You Quit:
ToA.
Tiresome PvE grind.
(RvR had kept me playing until ToA)




Game Title:
Planetside

When You Played:
From launch, for a few months, then again for a month a while later.

Your 'Main' Character:
Mosquito guy.

Why You Quit:
Gameplay doesn't vary enough. Was fun to go back to.



Game Title:
SWG

When You Played:
From launch, for a few months, then again for a month after they patched in cities.

Your 'Main' Character:
Sort of pistoleer, miner, weaponsmith hybrid.

Why You Quit:
Game was complete shit.



Game Title:
CoH

When You Played:
From launch, for 3 years.

Your 'Main' Character:
Mains? In CoH? What now? I played mostly Controllers and Defenders, but a bit of everything except tankers.

Why You Quit:
CoH relies on a steady flow of new content to keep it interesting (both classes and zones). The flow of content slowed to a trickle. I'd seriously consider going back once a few more patches have added enough new stuff for me to try out. For my money CoH remains the best pve mmog running.



Game Title:
EQ2

When You Played:
2006 I think, for a few months.

Your 'Main' Character:
Various priests, In particular a Defiler.

Why You Quit:
It did what it did well, but nothing new, no PvP, and CoH did everything EQ2 did, only CoH did it better.




Game Title:
Guild Wars

When You Played:
From launch, for a few months.

Your 'Main' Character:
Priest

Why You Quit:
Godawful PvE grind, and the PvP endgame absolutely requires organised teams to be interesting, I don't have the time or energy for regular organised PvP teams.




Game Title:
WoW

When You Played:
Beginning of 2007 - duration of the trial

Your 'Main' Character:
Priest

Why You Quit:
Seen it all before. I could appreciate the greater level of polish, but it just felt like a shinier retread of the eq and daoc generation with shorter grind times.





Game Title:
EVE

When You Played:
Started a few months ago - still going.

Your 'Main' Character:
n/a

Why You Quit:
So far I like the shiny, I like the lack of elves, I like the pvp, I like the casual-friendly advancement system, I like that advancement gives options rather than purely power, I like that the EVE community are not all completely retarded.

[apocrypha]

OK my dates are very hazy, but I'll do my best.

Game Title:
DAOC

When You Played:
Early 2002 to mid 2003 (just before ToA hit)

Your 'Main' Character:
Played a Hib Bard until ToA hit and then our guild swapped to Albion en masse and I then played a Cleric, a Reaver and a Necromancer pretty much equally. DAOC was when I started 2-boxing too (hi buffbot!), a habit that stuck, so all of the MMORPG's I list here have at least 2 mains.

Why You Quit:
The PvP got worse and worse, month on month. Got utterly bored of spending hours waiting for a group and then dying in 2 minutes to an uber 8-man gank squad. The large-scale aspects of PvP that used to be so fun (keep taking and defending) disappeared, being replaced with alarm-clock relic raids and "perfect" gank groups. It became so elitist and inaccessible that only a tiny % could get any fun out of it. Also the community relations in the EU were awful. GOA did a very poor job of liaising with the EU players and we were mostly left with the feeling that Mythic considered us 2nd class subscribers compared to the US. I know now that GOA's hands were mostly tied, but that doesn't change the dismissive and arrogant way they communicated with us. Made worse by the closure of the official forums and leaving us to rely on BarrysWorld ffs - it's as if CCP suddenly announced that there would only be Wrangler from now on and he was only going to post on SHC! And then when ToA was announced - lots of crappy PvE grinding to enable you to carry on competing in PvP I decided enough was enough.


Game Title:
Asheron's Call 2

When You Played:
Mid 2003 til slightly later 2003... only played for 3 months I think.

Your 'Main' Character:
A Tumerok Hive Keeper and a Lugian Sage I think.

Why You Quit:
Everything was broken. Really. After DAOC it just felt like nothing worked properly. Even the chat ffs! It had been running for about 6 months I think when I picked it up but it felt like it was a beta. I just remember being constantly frustrated with the server performance and bugs.


Game Title:
SWG

When You Played:
Launch until roughly mid-2004 (before JTL hit)

Your 'Main' Character:
Well how do you define SWG characters? Thanks to the retarded Jedi unlocking system any resemblance between my characters at the end and at the start was totally gone. I started off with a Creature Handler and a Doctor but they became, over time, Pistoleer, Commando, Chef, Dancer, oh god all sorts of crap. I was always happiest with the CH, but look what happened to them :(

Why You Quit:
Really, does anyone still need to ask why anyone quit SWG? Worst MMORPG experience I've ever had. A game with such promise, so many awesome things about it shredded to pieces by moronic development decisions and utter contempt for it's players. 4 years afterwards I'm still bitter. There are so many things to list that this will turn into an essay all to easily, so I'll stick to the main, glaring ones. Hologrinding. Please, whoever decided that this was a good idea, leave the games industry now, forever. Community relations - again, this is crucial. Why don't game companies realise this? The SWG community relations were so bad that... well... heh, NGE (although the NGE hit after I left, it's the shining example of the whole problem). Surely I don't need to elaborate. Totally broken classes that never got fixed. Droid handler being the obvious example but the other crafters stand out too - couldn't compete on the market as crafter without being maxed, at which point you got killed by beetles, doh! Nerfing like nerfing has never nerfed before... Creature Handlers the world over know what I mean here. At the end of the day SWG should have been the first WoW. It should have had 2 million subscribers and be launching it's 10th expansion pack today. But it lost it's main developer too early (Raph, we don't forget and we never forgive, nothing you touch will ever get money from me again), it was tainted by a total lack of connection with it's players and it was destroyed by some of the worst decisions ever made in the MMORPG industry. Can't believe I still miss it so much and that I still harbor so much ire. Let it go man, let it go.


Game Title:
EVE Online

When You Played:
April 2004 to now, with a 12 month break 2005-2006.

Your 'Main' Character:
My mains are a Caldari and a Gallente, 45m SP's each, with a range of specialties.

Why You Quit:
Well I'm still playing, but I took a 12 month break to play WoW and that was promoted by a number of things. Mostly I got fed up of the crappy PvE content and (bit of a theme for me here) poor community relations at the time. PvE in EVE is fairly tedious and repetitive and when I unsubscribed I wasn't involved in PvP at all and I basically just got bored. I was also pissed off when CCP launched EVE in China because they sent all their best devs there to oversee that project. IMO this was when EVE's decline really started and I don't think it's ever recovered from that. The vision has gone and CCP's ideas are becoming more and more random, e.g. the entire ambulation thing, which is most likely (after Factional Warfare when if that turns out to be shit) to lead me to unsubscribe again. I've been pulled back into EVE again, mostly because of boredom with WoW, but also because of PvP. EVE really does have the best, deepest, most involved, most player-skill-based and generally awesome PvP of any game ever and I don't see that changing because no other developer has the balls tbqh.



Game Title:
WoW

When You Played:
2005-now, with a 6 month break from late 2007.

Your 'Main' Character:
Heh, lots. Currently got 3 lvl 70's, all Horde, a mage, a shaman and a paladin. Soon to have a hunter, priest, druid and warlock at 70 too.

Why You Quit:
The 6 month break was because I was burned out, simple as. I'd joined a raiding guild and just hated it. I found raiding incredibly tedious and detested the drama whores that came along with it. Left a nasty taste in my mouth so I took a break and blew people up in EVE. Came back for some gentle PvE in a highly polished game and am still bumbling happily along, with absolutely no desire to ever raid again :)

[UD_Delt]

Game Title:
EQ2

When You Played:
Release to Still Playing with a brief WoW break

Your 'Main' Character:
Chars of note: Every tradeskill class to 70+ at least twice.
Adventure: 71 Swash, 70 Bruiser, 70 Warden, 54 Inquisitor, 53 SK, 52 Necro, etc...

Why You Quit:
The first time I got banned because I trusted a friend with the account and he decided to bot the shit out of my tradeskillers. I did manage to get the account back though (minus all of my level 70's) and subsequently started another so I could 2-box.

What's going to make me quit:
I'm probably going to quit shortly if you don't fix the fucking exchange. When it was run by SOE it was great and I could have seen myself playing EQ2 for years to come. Live Gamer on the other hand is a complete clusterfuck and has destroyed the SE server economies. Populations are already way the fuck down and getting worse. I'll be joining the crowd shortly if things don't improve in the next month or two. And please tell Live Gamer to fuck the hell off for asking for suggestions for improvement. Is it too much to fucking ask that it just work like the station exchange did? Are they really that fucking retarded that they never even bothered to use the old site? Fuck! Yes, it pisses me off that SOE fucked this up so piss poorly.

And please quote me on the entire above paragraph.


Edit: I've also played UO, EQ, DAoC, AC2, SWG, and WoW but none to the extent of EQ2.

[Nevermore]

I'm late to the party but what the hell.  I'll just do the games I paid for and ended up quiting.

Game Title: Dark Age of Camelot
When You Played: From a couple of months after launch to right before the release of New Frontiers
Your 'Main' Character: Based on most frequently played: Bonnie McGee, Minstrel
Why You Quit: Mythic's refusal to do anything about buffbots

Game Title: World of Warcraft
When You Played: Started at release, ended two months later
Your 'Main' Character: Allekto, Feral Druid
Why You Quit: I really liked the game from 1-59, but once I hit 60 it was very obvious the end game would be nothing more than grinding raids for phat lewts and/or grinding other crap for faction increases.

Game Title: Guild Wars
When You Played: Played it at release.  Stopped playing it for the most part maybe six months later or so, though I do still fire it up for an hour or two every couple of months, give or take.
Your 'Main' Character: Don't really invest enough into characters in this game to really have a 'main'.  Played Necromancer, Ranger, Mezmer(sp?) and Assassin more than other classes, though.
Why You Quit: While the game is entertaining, it's not really an MMO.  The game feels like a 3D Gauntlet you can play over the internet with friends.

Game Title: Eve Online
When You Played: Started around the beginning of March 07 (due to the War thread, actually) and finally let my sub run out around December 07 (I think)
Your 'Main' Character: Mel'pomene
Why You Quit: Casual play in Hi Sec was boring as hell and I just didn't have the time to commit to organized PvP in 0.0.  Plus I apparently suck mightily at the isk-making aspect of the game since I was perpetually broke even though I rarely lost ships.  To illustrate just how bad I am: I was never able to afford to buy and outfit a battleship despite having the skills to pilot one towards the end.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Interesting read, it seems that the vast majority of SWG players quit during the "golden" era of the game. If this small sample of players is representive it is easy to see why the CU and NGE were done from the SOE/LEC prespective.

[eldaec]

Interesting read, it seems that the vast majority of SWG players quit during the "golden" era of the game. If this small sample of players is representive it is easy to see why the CU and NGE were done from the SOE/LEC prespective.

Actually, you are describing exactly why the NGE should never have happened. To wit, the people who wanted Star Wars Pew Pew, or even those who just wanted a game that wasn't shit, had already left. SOE were taking money from a group of mining fanatics, Sim Beru obsessives, and bizarre cantina fetishists. Regardless of what was intended, these were the people playing the game, so to spend time and effort taking out functionality they used and enjoyed, in order to give them something they didn't care about, was the single most ridiculous decision in the history of computer gaming.

Count how many people in this thread are saying they started playing SWG because of the NGE.

There's your problem.

[Sky]

I'm on record and (unlike schild, heh) stand behind my opinion that playing right after the NGE went in was the most fun I had in SWG. At least they tried to make a fun, actiony, starwarsy experience. Too bad they couldn't make that goal all the way, would've been a great game with a great license.

[Samwise]

Interesting read, it seems that the vast majority of SWG players quit during the "golden" era of the game. If this small sample of players is representive it is easy to see why the CU and NGE were done from the SOE/LEC prespective.

I left during the "golden" era in large part because I saw what was coming and didn't like it.

[Lantyssa]

Also because of the horrendous, game-stopping bugs, broken promises, et. al. that we went on and on about in the SWG threads.  The game failed spectacularly on many, many levels, over many years.  The NGE was just the ultimate insult as Eldaec said.  It cut off the one group of customers left -- those absolutely loyal to the game despite everything before.

[Ratman_tf]

Hologrinding.

Got me a ton of credits, but wasn't so good for the game in general.

[Count Nerfedalot]

With all the bugs and broken systems at launch, SWG proved the adage about being able to crap in a box and still sell it so long as it had the Star Wars logo on the box. The NGE was shipping another box of even smellier poop and telling the customer they had to eat it before they could play any more.

The "golden" era was tarnished brass at best.  The folks responsible for the mess from Raph on down to the database coders were awol.  And the summer interns left trying to keep the servers up were obviously clueless and totally incapable of actually fixing ANYTHING, much less redesigning the thing.  Everything they touched, they broke, and any adjustments they made to design or balance made things less fun or balanced.  The CU and later the NGE were desperate attempts to do anything but finish the damn game that they shipped since the B-team left to do it obviously wasn't up to finishing what the A-team had started.

btw, anyone know if they STILL have to reboot the servers every single day just to keep the database from asploding?

[sam, an eggplant]

Dunno, but WoW and AoC both run oracle backends and do fine with weekly scheduled maintenance periods. Some of that performance is cheaper/faster commodity hardware but the real reason is that they batch up changes on the app servers and then commit to the DB every so often instead of making every single autoattack a separate transaction. In other words, they weren't designed by rabid spidermonkeys.

[Surlyboi]

Nevermind gutboy, he's just looking for reasons to justify why he plays that POS still.

[Morat20]

btw, anyone know if they STILL have to reboot the servers every single day just to keep the database from asploding?

I wouldn't doubt it. :) From all appearances, their DB schema was done by programmers and with half the hardware and licenses they really needed. Since none of the "revamps" really removed anything, just obfuscated and added to it, I'd bet money their DB schema is even more convulted, unoptimized, and harder hit than before.

Motto of the story: Hire real DB experts to design your DB, and don't fucking cheap out on the licenses.