WotLK spoilerfication

[Ironwood]

Less wanking, more spoilage.  Kthx.

[lamaros]

mmochampion has most of the general stuff.
ej class threads have most of the detailed class stuff.

[slog]

Read up a bit about Wintergrasp:

#  According to a fixed, rolling schedule, one faction will defend the keep/mine, and the other faction will assault it. Both sides will fight over towers and siege workshops scattered around the zone.
# If the attacking force succeeds in capturing the keep/mine, that faction will defend it during the next rotation. If that attacking force fails to capture the final objective before the next rotation, that faction will be given more resources (unknown to what those might be for now)" to balance out the fight, and give every faction a chance to hold Lake Wintergrasp.

Why is the second mechanic in place? To make it so everyone gets to win at some point.

Wintergrasp looks to have a very good grasp on the PvP problems in WoW, hence my optimism.

/bg Guys we are losing, we need to rally
/bg Noob, we just wait to get more NPCs for next round.

or

/bg Guys, We won the last 2 rounds, and now all these NPCs are just destroying us.
/bg Noob, that's so the sucky alliance can win.  DANCE PARTY TIME!!

[Merusk]

/bg Guys, We won the last 2 rounds, and now all these NPCs are just destroying us.
/bg Noob, that's so the sucky alliance can win.  DANCE PARTY TIME!!

On Alleria it would be the opposite.  Not because the Horde sucks, but because they've been outnumbered about 3:1 forever.  Alliance! Zerg, ho!

[K9]

Having a whole zone dedicated to "world pvp" seems like a smart move. One of the biggest problems with EPL, Silithus, HFP, Achunidoun and Halaa PvP is that it all seems so pointless. Harvesting dust and waiting to be ganked isn't pvp. Capturing some arbitrary town or arbitrary towers while all around you people carry on happily picking flowers and killing elephants seems utterly futile and pointless (added to the fact that there's no bonus to actually holding these objectives). I've never even tried taking spirit towers because I am honestly lost as to why I'd want to. I've done a bit of PvP around HFP, but 99% of the time it's just some 70(s) waiting to 1-shot level 58 and 59s who are doing the quest for daily cash and xp.

Having the whole zone set aside means that they can mess around with destructible objectives and other environmental aspects of PvP that will hopefully make it more appealing.

Finally the fundamental issue with PvP zones is that they need a reason to be populated other than PvP. If wintergrasp is the only (decent) source of top-tier herbs and ore for example, then people will go there. Just creating a zone and saying "hey, look... PVP!" doesn't do much, because no-one wants to be the bored sap who's sitting there for 5 hours on a saturday evening waiting for other poor saps to come have a look. PvP zones need to be populated by default, such that there's a critical mass to get the PvP going. Unfortunately I think that in a faction based game, balanced open/world/ffa pvp is impossible.

[kaid]

If they can make the vehicles fun that should be a big draw. One of the worst parts about pvp is if you are a bit to low level or just don't have the gear you are worse than useless you are an active hinderance to your team. If they do vehicles right if you are undergeared or a bit low level hop in a vehicle and act as a gunner or a driver. Your gear wont' matter then and you will be just as useful as anybody else doing that job.

I think the more resources thing is not so much NPC as it is more vehicle resources so you can have more and better toys.

[Fabricated]

Less wanking, more spoilage.  Kthx.

I imagine we'll get to that when the PVP stuff is put into the beta, but if you wanna see the new stuff:

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/  For items, quests, talent calculators.
http://www.worldofraids.com/   For everything else, like up to the minute patch notes and impressions. There's a lot of cool lore and questline stuff outlined here, as well as previews of the barber shop and so on.

[Fordel]

They have added AP scaling to a few more Paladins spells, notably Consecration and Holy Frisbee. As things stand, this firmly puts Prot Paladins into the standard physical tanking gear with warriors and DKs. Even the weapon, though Prot Paladins will want the slower 1h's due to the 51 pointer not being normalized yet. Subject to change of course.

[Merusk]

Potion Sickness?  Wtf?  So you can only use one potion, ever, in a prolonged combat now?  Sucks to be a mana user.

Event Calendar  Looks like they're finally implementing stuff other sites have offered as 3rd parties or interface mods once more.  This will be a lot easier than goading guildmates into visiting a website or downloading a mod on a regular basis, I hope.

Also..'Locks will now be rogue fodder as Paranoia is gone.  You have to have your VW out and channeling its mend to get any stealth detection.

Warlock pet changes (src)

    * Felhunter: Paranoia and Tainted Blood have been replaced with Fel Intelligence and Shadow Bite.
    * Shadow Bite (Felhunter): Deals Shadow damage plus additional 5% Shadow damage for each damage over time effect on the target. 6 sec cooldown.
    * Fel Intelligence (Felhunter): Increases total Intellect and Spirit of party and raid members by 3%. Lasts until cancelled.
    * New Talent: Improved Felhunter (Affliction) - Your Felhunter gains mana equal to 50/100% of the damage done by it's Shadow Bite ability, and increases the effect of your Felhunter's Fel Intelligence by 1/2%.
    * Felguard: Health increased by 10%.
    * Succubus: Health increased by 20%, armor increased 22%.
    * Imp: Health increased 20%, Armor increased 16%, mana regeneration increased 200%.
    * Voidwalker: Health increased by 20%, Damage increased by 16%. The amount of attack power the Voidwalker gains from it's master's spell damage has been increased by 45%.
    * Consume Shadows (Voidwalker): Duration reduced to 6 seconds, and effect increased 66%. Now also greatly increases all nearby allies stealth detection while channeled.
    * Summon Dreadsteed/Felsteed: Mana cost removed, global cooldown removed.
    * Bane now also reduces the cast time of your Haunt spell.
    * Infernal: Cooldown reduced to 15 minutes, down from 1 hour. Duration reduced to 1 minute, down from 5 minutes+. Health increased by 30%, damage increased by 60%, and armor increased 30%.
    * Doomguard: Health increased 20%, mana increased 24%.
    * Avoidance (Felguard) - Now reduces damage taken from area of effect attacks by an additional 80%.
    * Avoidance: Now automatically learned for the Succubus, Imp, Voidwalker and Felhunter at level 10.

[Ingmar]

Potion Sickness?  Wtf?  So you can only use one potion, ever, in a prolonged combat now?  Sucks to be a mana user.

They seem to be more mana management type abilities into the game (example: that new pally evocate). Also, if I was a betting man, I'd say that this change heralds a good sized increase in the relative amount that a single potion will restore at 80. I'd happily trade away getting to use more than one potion in a fight for a potion that heals enough so I can actually see my health bar move. When you're hitting 20k fully buffed, a 1500-2500 super healing potion is ... insufficient.

[Fordel]

Paranoia did jack shit 98% of the time anyways.

[SurfD]

Paranoia did jack shit 98% of the time anyways.

Thats because smart rogues do it from behind.

Paranoia suffers from the problem that it is still tied to the stealth detection mechanic, which works as a FRONTAL viewing cone.  A level 10 rogue should, if the data the people had on the Elitist Jerks druid site is true, be completely undetectable if they approach a level 70 character from behind, because you can ONLY detect stealthed units if they are in that cone infront of you.

Paranoia, or any other ability that allows stealth detection basicly just allows you to spot a rogue (or cat druid) coming from farther away if you happen to be facing in their general direction.

[Fordel]

Yeaup, so you end up trying to do that retarded spinny jump dance to avoid the rogue and try to see him before the opener.

It almost never works. 

[Chimpy]

Potion Sickness?  Wtf?  So you can only use one potion, ever, in a prolonged combat now?  Sucks to be a mana user.

They seem to be more mana management type abilities into the game (example: that new pally evocate). Also, if I was a betting man, I'd say that this change heralds a good sized increase in the relative amount that a single potion will restore at 80. I'd happily trade away getting to use more than one potion in a fight for a potion that heals enough so I can actually see my health bar move. When you're hitting 20k fully buffed, a 1500-2500 super healing potion is ... insufficient.

The 2 minute cooldown on potions was more than enough of a penalty to those who either require mana for DPS or for healing. Welcome to the World of Meleecraft in PvE as well as PvP again. It is possible that this, like tinitus (the anti-drum stacking debuff which has a 2min CD) was intended as a nerf to Haste potions (or destro pots, tho most casters get more bang for their buck from chugging Mana Pots).

[Paelos]

I just want them to make the bosses in each dungeon not require 6 different group setups for 6 bosses. That shit is annoying as hell. Oh, this boss requires 3 tanks, oh this needs 2, oh this needs 1, this needs 8 healers, this needs 6, etc.

[Merusk]

I just had a thought.. this also seems aimed at trying to keep a lid on Herb prices since inscriptions and potions use them.  If we continued with the same chug-a-potion gameplay the prices for high-end Glyphs, scrolls and potions would be ridiculous.

Paranoia did jack shit 98% of the time anyways.

Works fine for what I use it for.. guarding shit in AV.  Can't approach my back if you have to come through an entrance.  If I'm in another BG, I just face the opposite direction of my pet, and it's on aggro... but who plays anything BUT AV these days anyway? 

[Ingmar]

Potion Sickness?  Wtf?  So you can only use one potion, ever, in a prolonged combat now?  Sucks to be a mana user.

They seem to be more mana management type abilities into the game (example: that new pally evocate). Also, if I was a betting man, I'd say that this change heralds a good sized increase in the relative amount that a single potion will restore at 80. I'd happily trade away getting to use more than one potion in a fight for a potion that heals enough so I can actually see my health bar move. When you're hitting 20k fully buffed, a 1500-2500 super healing potion is ... insufficient.

The 2 minute cooldown on potions was more than enough of a penalty to those who either require mana for DPS or for healing. Welcome to the World of Meleecraft in PvE as well as PvP again. It is possible that this, like tinitus (the anti-drum stacking debuff which has a 2min CD) was intended as a nerf to Haste potions (or destro pots, tho most casters get more bang for their buck from chugging Mana Pots).

Again, I don't think we should jump to conclusions until we see what other mana efficiency changes are coming, and especially when we see what happens with everyone using spirit gear at 80. My resto druid already goes through entire kara runs without even drinking, let alone taking a potion, and it is nearly the same with my elemental shaman. Were they to bring the other classes up to that level of mana efficiency, the potion change wouldn't hurt in the slightest.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Potion Sickness?  Wtf?  So you can only use one potion, ever, in a prolonged combat now?  Sucks to be a mana user.

They seem to be more mana management type abilities into the game (example: that new pally evocate). Also, if I was a betting man, I'd say that this change heralds a good sized increase in the relative amount that a single potion will restore at 80. I'd happily trade away getting to use more than one potion in a fight for a potion that heals enough so I can actually see my health bar move. When you're hitting 20k fully buffed, a 1500-2500 super healing potion is ... insufficient.

The 2 minute cooldown on potions was more than enough of a penalty to those who either require mana for DPS or for healing. Welcome to the World of Meleecraft in PvE as well as PvP again. It is possible that this, like tinitus (the anti-drum stacking debuff which has a 2min CD) was intended as a nerf to Haste potions (or destro pots, tho most casters get more bang for their buck from chugging Mana Pots).

Again, I don't think we should jump to conclusions until we see what other mana efficiency changes are coming, and especially when we see what happens with everyone using spirit gear at 80. My resto druid already goes through entire kara runs without even drinking, let alone taking a potion, and it is nearly the same with my elemental shaman. Were they to bring the other classes up to that level of mana efficiency, the potion change wouldn't hurt in the slightest.

Indeed, not only are shadow priests getting a huge spirit bump with new and improved talents but the last one will give 36% mana/health on a 3 minute timer which is an extra pot or two in itself.

[Ingmar]

I should say, 'wouldn't hurt in the slightest unless you're an alchemist.'   

[Fordel]

My Empire! 

[Merusk]

I'm currently dumping all the mana pots I can before the bottom drops out of the market. "What, 30g for a stack of 5? SUUUUURE, I know it's a hell of a deal! Here you go!"   

[lamaros]

Meh, inflation with WotLK will likely mean prices still go up overall.

[Register]

I just had a thought.. this also seems aimed at trying to keep a lid on Herb prices since inscriptions and potions use them.  If we continued with the same chug-a-potion gameplay the prices for high-end Glyphs, scrolls and potions would be ridiculous.

Works fine for what I use it for.. guarding shit in AV.  Can't approach my back if you have to come through an entrance.  If I'm in another BG, I just face the opposite direction of my pet, and it's on aggro... but who plays anything BUT AV these days anyway? 

Don't know about your server, but on Dreadmaul herb and potion prices have been plunging because supply exceeds demand. Felweed prices just dropped to 4g a stack, super healing to 7-8g and super mana at 9-10. My herb/alchem don't even bother with AH any more - if I needed money I just go to the isle of the ATM.. erm Quel Danas ahem.

Horde dominate AV on my server, and the honor is better... but then you get stuck with excess AV marks that you can't clear with "for great honor" because you don't have enough of other marks. For me I just queue a random other BG or two with AV, hop in and if there's a decent chance of winning I skip AV totally. Other wise its a hop to AV when its up - seems vaguely unethical to jump ship, but it helped preserve my sanity through weeks of BGing...

[lamaros]

Don't know about your server, but on Dreadmaul herb and potion prices have been plunging because supply exceeds demand.

What, you're on my server?

[Register]

Don't know about your server, but on Dreadmaul herb and potion prices have been plunging because supply exceeds demand.

What, you're on my server?

Hrm... my current char is Iselen, what's your char's name? The BG gearing is almost done, missing the wand which I can complete by this weekend, and for trinket I am not quite sold on 30k honor for the battlemaster trinket. I could either rep up and get the sorcerer's alchemist or just get the zangamarsh pvp trinket.

Alternatively, I might be jumping on to my pally though to see if I can catch the next wave of overpowered FOTM.

[lamaros]

I have a pally called Compoundname, though I don't play him much. Just infrequently collecting stuff for my DK.

I'm going to assume your character is Alliance, seeing how the name is not familiar. However maybe my memory just isn't as excellent as I think it is.

[Merusk]

Don't know about your server, but on Dreadmaul herb and potion prices have been plunging because supply exceeds demand. Felweed prices just dropped to 4g a stack, super healing to 7-8g and super mana at 9-10. My herb/alchem don't even bother with AH any more - if I needed money I just go to the isle of the ATM.. erm Quel Danas ahem.

My Horde server (Zul'jin) is averaging about 20g for a stack of super mana pots right now.  My Alliance server (Alleria) is higher than that (but I'm not sure how much as I'm on the Horde toon atm) because of the extremely high number of Raid guilds based there.

[lamaros]

Don't know about your server, but on Dreadmaul herb and potion prices have been plunging because supply exceeds demand. Felweed prices just dropped to 4g a stack, super healing to 7-8g and super mana at 9-10. My herb/alchem don't even bother with AH any more - if I needed money I just go to the isle of the ATM.. erm Quel Danas ahem.

My Horde server (Zul'jin) is averaging about 20g for a stack of super mana pots right now.  My Alliance server (Alleria) is higher than that (but I'm not sure how much as I'm on the Horde toon atm) because of the extremely high number of Raid guilds based there.

Dreadmaul is pretty dead insofar as raiding goes (Only one guild in Sunwell, and wiping on K every week. Everyone decent has stopped raiding for now or transfered to bigger guilds on other servers), it's much cheaper than many other places.

[Register]

I have a pally called Compoundname, though I don't play him much. Just infrequently collecting stuff for my DK.

I'm going to assume your character is Alliance, seeing how the name is not familiar. However maybe my memory just isn't as excellent as I think it is.

Nope - undead lock. My alliance lock was a gnome on Blackrock which I leveled to 60 during the period of WoW's launch - it was a lesson I learned in a painful manner, I swore then that if I leveled a second lock it would be undead.

Will be surprised if you noticed me as I am very low-key in game. The char is not on any cutting edge guild, and I don't chatter much on general or trade either. I do try to speak out in BGs, which is what I did mostly in this server - if the bg chat is completely silent its usually a very bad sign to me, chances are we will lose on that bg.

[lamaros]

Ah, BGing is one thing I have not done (apart from one single AV to get the Spear while leveling). so maybe my memory is not entirely useless.

[K9]

Tranq Shot will soon be able to dispel enrage mechanics (i.e. Warrior Enrage, Rogue's Hunger For Blood, etc.). It should also be able to dispel Druids' "Owlkin Frenzy" effect. Also going to lower the cooldown.

In addition, Tranq Shot will also be able to dispel magic effects, and we're removing that from Arcane Shot.

We regret creating a dispel mechanic that also did damage, so we're re-designing that mechanic. It didn't fix any of Hunter's issues, anyways, and made them better against classes they were already good against (casters).

 

[Merusk]

   

[Hawkbit]

I've played a Hunter main since Nov 04 and even *I* knew adding dispel to Arcane Shot was entirely too OP.

[Merusk]

Yeah, that's kind of my problem with it.  It just underscores the whole "We don't know what the fuck we're doing with hunters." vibe I've always gotten.  It's like they throw things out there and then see what happens.

[K9]

Does anyone know what to do with hunters?

You guys yo-yo from roflstomping over pretty much everything in BGs to geting curbstomped in arenas. I really don't know why hunters struggle so much in Arenas.