WotLK spoilerfication

[Paelos]

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

I agree as well. One small change that's planned in the expansion would seriously unfuck warrior tanks for rage generation. It's not something related to a skill, it's just a change on how dodges and parrys actually generate rage. There are a lot of small changes like that to classes that aren't new talents, but simply tweaks that would help a lot. There is no need to hold onto those for another 4-6 months.

[Dren]

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

Damn it.  I actually thought those changes were for upcoming patches.  These are tied to the expansion?  That's bullshit.  All of those things listed need to be implemented now.

My assumption is that people aren't going to give a crap about heroics.  As soon as the expansion comes out, the climb to 80 will begin or the "I'm starting a DK at 55" will start.  Unless they are just going to continue to use badges for uber items in the new lands, I assume the green drops from standard level 75 mobs will be better than anything I have now.

I want the faction points now.  I won't give a crap after the expansion.

Do they really think some large group of people will just say, "Screw this leveling crap.  I'm going to continue to play the level 70 game?"  I don't get it.  If you are planning on improving the game for the level 70 crowd, do it well before the expansion while people actually give a shit about that portion of the game.

[Ironwood]

I think you'll find, like last time, that most of the stuff goes in WITHOUT the expansion.

Like Talents.  Of which the tank rage one is in.

[Chimpy]

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

Damn it.  I actually thought those changes were for upcoming patches.  These are tied to the expansion?  That's bullshit.  All of those things listed need to be implemented now.

My assumption is that people aren't going to give a crap about heroics.  As soon as the expansion comes out, the climb to 80 will begin or the "I'm starting a DK at 55" will start.  Unless they are just going to continue to use badges for uber items in the new lands, I assume the green drops from standard level 75 mobs will be better than anything I have now.

I want the faction points now.  I won't give a crap after the expansion.

Do they really think some large group of people will just say, "Screw this leveling crap.  I'm going to continue to play the level 70 game?"  I don't get it.  If you are planning on improving the game for the level 70 crowd, do it well before the expansion while people actually give a shit about that portion of the game.

I think they were using the example of old reputations to paint a picture of how the new reputation thing will work. Also, there will be heroic versions of all future 5 man dungeons. I think Blizzard really likes how they turned out on the whole.

[Merusk]

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

Damn it.  I actually thought those changes were for upcoming patches.  These are tied to the expansion?  That's bullshit.  All of those things listed need to be implemented now.

My assumption is that people aren't going to give a crap about heroics.  As soon as the expansion comes out, the climb to 80 will begin or the "I'm starting a DK at 55" will start.  Unless they are just going to continue to use badges for uber items in the new lands, I assume the green drops from standard level 75 mobs will be better than anything I have now.

I want the faction points now.  I won't give a crap after the expansion.

Do they really think some large group of people will just say, "Screw this leveling crap.  I'm going to continue to play the level 70 game?"  I don't get it.  If you are planning on improving the game for the level 70 crowd, do it well before the expansion while people actually give a shit about that portion of the game.

There will be heroics of the new dungeons, and factions for the new lands.  (As there were factions in the release lands.)   You'll care, they were just using BC factions as examples.

[lamaros]

They are not going to put the changes in piecemeal, too much effort that is better spent on getting the expansion out the door.

They are not going to put them in wholesale untill the expansion is nearly out, which is not yet, as it would change the game is so many ways that most stuff people are still doing (raiding, pvping) would need to be rebalanced. They are not going to do that.

[Ironwood]

That's what people said last time.  They were wrong there too.

[lamaros]

Last time the expansion was delayed till Jan instead of the November/December release, and people wanted something!!!!1

If it (delay) happens again then sure. But if WotLK comes out this year you wont see these changes in the game more than a month before it is released.

(Last time it stuffed things sup too: Naxx had a boss that was 5 manned. And last time they didn't have Arena whinging as a possible consequence either).

[Fordel]

There also mucking with base mechanics a lot more this time. At the same time, giving people a chance to roll up DK's early from some kind of pre-order deal would be a huge carrot to dangle if required.

[Dren]

I'm not going to pretend I understand their resource loading, but I do know something about risk management:

Two scenarios:

1.  Balance all of the non-expansion related changes from now until release of WotLK. 
           Risks:
                -Poor staff moral, or increased costs due to new hires/contracts.
                -Inconvenience current players (the players that have stuck with the game regardless of other issues.)  Low risk of sub loss.
            Advantages:
                -Actually interest old players to resub before the expansion only to be retained by the expansion after release.
2.  Dump everything onto the public at the expansion release.
           Risks:
               -Players returning to play the new expansion (already known to be fickle) are faced with a multitude of issues that may cause
                early sub cancellations.
               -Resources will be strained trying to balance all changes all at once along with all new content.
           Advantages:
                -Lower resource drain during the year allows for the expansion to release sooner.

Scenario 1 seems to be a clear winning in my mind.  We'll see what they do.

[dusematic]

That was dumb.

[Dren]

That was dumb.

Care to elaborate Troll?

[Simond]

Alleged spoiler referring to what is going to (presumably) be the in-game WotLK launch event: http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs329&d=08273&f=wait_what184.jpg
 

[dusematic]

That was dumb.

Care to elaborate Troll?

They want people to buy the expansion.

[Chimpy]

Alleged spoiler referring to what is going to (presumably) be the in-game WotLK launch event: http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs329&d=08273&f=wait_what184.jpg
 

I bet he attacks from the cliff above the gate like all the alliance people do.

Frickin wall jumpers!

That or just watlzes in the river entrance.

[Simond]

Same thing's supposed to happen to Darnassus as well...but it's not like anybody, you know, actually cares about that glorified treehouse. 

[Fordel]

Would Orgrimmar cease to exist? Or just be a pile of rubble? That seems really  , since Org is used heavily by the horde.




Like Simond said, I could totally see Darnassus being turned into a crater and no one even noticing for a week.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Would Orgrimmar cease to exist? Or just be a pile of rubble? That seems really  , since Org is used heavily by the horde.




Like Simond said, I could totally see Darnassus being turned into a crater and no one even noticing for a week.

If Arthas has an anti-mangina policy I may have to vote for him in november

[Simond]

Would Orgrimmar cease to exist? Or just be a pile of rubble? That seems really  , since Org is used heavily by the horde.

I could see them flattening it and using it as an excuse to rebuild/redesign the zone, probably tied to some sort of SSO/Gates of A'Q daily quests thingy.

[Sjofn]

However, they bring very little beyond DPS and a touchy, non-recastable CC to 5 and 10-mans.

I find in my five and ten mans, this is considered enough. :P

I'm insane and survival specced though, so I'm probably not a great hunter gauge anyway. The only reason I don't play her more than my other 70's is because we have DPS out the ass and not so many tanks and healers (and I have two of each DON'T JUDGE ME <sob>).

[Fordel]

Seven hunters and Three Shaman does not a Kara raid make.


Yet.

[lamaros]

That was dumb.

Care to elaborate Troll?

THEY'RE DOING A BETA. 2 IS KINDA THE POINT OF THE BETA OMG?

[kaid]

Well given past "invasions" of undead I expect the razing of a city will involve 1 maybe 2 elite mobs that run into the city every hour only to get brutally slain buy the guards or bored people at the AH. The rest of the invasion will mill around outside the city thinking menacing thoughts.

[K9]

Well given past "invasions" of undead I expect the razing of a city will involve 1 maybe 2 elite mobs that run into the city every hour only to get brutally slain buy the guards or bored people at the AH. The rest of the invasion will mill around outside the city thinking menacing thoughts.

Clearly you never saw Highlord Kruul invade Ironforge or Stormwind (don't know if he did any horde cities).

[dusematic]

Dude I hope they fix Shadow Priests.  Even read a dev comment about how you "never see shadow priests in top end pvp."  I guess the problem is we'd be too uber with the mana and health regen if our damage was too competitive.  We have zero survivability.  The changes to the talent treet look prety decent.  They appear to have nerfed our mana regen and buffed our damage.  We'll see. 

It got to hopeless in my 2v2 arena team that I just rerolled a dranei mage.  He's pretty cool but I stalled out at like level 40.

[Fordel]

ShadowPriests suffer directly from poor scaling (by design) and their mana regen mechanic. If SP scaled any better, they would out regen their own mana consumption.


This caused the side effect of poor showings in the later Arena Seasons. The First couple of seasons SP's were effective and arguably overpowered when paired with Locks. As stats went up, SP's stayed the same, and are now melee food.


The Pattern has repeated itself at least twice now. Some Classes start off 'ahead' due to strong baseline abilities, while others require gear to scale them up to normal. As the gear advances, the 'ahead' classes stay more or less on their baseline, while the gear to scale classes scale dramatically further and further.


Overly simplified, Weapon Upgrades mean more for melee then Caster upgrades do for casters (and feral druids, which act like AP casters in terms of scaling).


I very much doubt this will be fixed with WoTLK, so be sure to get 'yours' early on in the expansion cycle if your a 'ahead' class 

[dusematic]

Good post, thanks dude.

[Calantus]

Dude I hope they fix Shadow Priests.  Even read a dev comment about how you "never see shadow priests in top end pvp."  I guess the problem is we'd be too uber with the mana and health regen if our damage was too competitive.  We have zero survivability.  The changes to the talent treet look prety decent.  They appear to have nerfed our mana regen and buffed our damage.  We'll see. 

It got to hopeless in my 2v2 arena team that I just rerolled a dranei mage.  He's pretty cool but I stalled out at like level 40.

Shadow priest is not a class, fuck off and die.

This post brought to you by "I wish hybrids would shut the fuck up about their pet spec and play the spec that works when they PVP".

EDIT: I am quite happy to note that this post was my 2000 post, it is a good post and worthy of that distinction.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I play a shadow priest, i love my shadow priest. If I want to pvp then I should go disc since shadow is not a pvp spec nor honestly do i want it to be. I'm happy many classes have their pve/pvp specs.

[dusematic]

Dude I hope they fix Shadow Priests.  Even read a dev comment about how you "never see shadow priests in top end pvp."  I guess the problem is we'd be too uber with the mana and health regen if our damage was too competitive.  We have zero survivability.  The changes to the talent treet look prety decent.  They appear to have nerfed our mana regen and buffed our damage.  We'll see. 

It got to hopeless in my 2v2 arena team that I just rerolled a dranei mage.  He's pretty cool but I stalled out at like level 40.

Shadow priest is not a class, fuck off and die.

This post brought to you by "I wish hybrids would shut the fuck up about their pet spec and play the spec that works when they PVP".

EDIT: I am quite happy to note that this post was my 2000 post, it is a good post and worthy of that distinction.

lol ur gay

[K9]

In its current incarnation Dispersion (the shadow 51pt talent) seems like CLoS on crack.

[Chimpy]

At least shadow priests had a day in the sun. Season 1 and 2 the shadow priest+lock team was like mage+rogue is now.

[dusematic]

That's what Calantus was saying.  The trouble is, I cam back to the game late, and didn't have good gear until season 3.  I tried going Disc but it was too frustrating doing the gear grind again.

[Dren]

That was dumb.

Care to elaborate Troll?

They want people to buy the expansion.

Huh?  Care to point where my post says they don't?

Or are you saying they'd rather have those that are currently not subbed, continue to be unsubbed until the expansion because they will be more likely to purchase the box? 

You're right.  3 months or more of resubscription plus purchasing the expansion when it comes out just doesn't make sense.

[Dren]

That was dumb.

Care to elaborate Troll?

THEY'RE DOING A BETA. 2 IS KINDA THE POINT OF THE BETA OMG?

Not sure why you are yelling or acting like a valley girl.  Beta's do not guarantee complete success.  In fact, they rarely do.