WotLK spoilerfication

[Ironwood]

Vigilance (new) - Focus your protective gaze on a friendly target, increasing their chance to dodge by 5%. In addition, any time they are hit by an attack your Taunt cooldown is refreshed. Lasts until cancelled. This effect can only be on one target at a time.

For some reason, this one really pumps my nads.

[lesion]

It reminds me of the Champion thing that priests were supposedly going to get for BC. I wonder if it stacks from multiple warriors?

[Ironwood]

It would have been handy on that AQ boss that needed two tanks and multiple taunts.  You could throw it on the other tank and play ping pong.

:)

[Fordel]

Actually, I see Sudden Death as the counter to Stay of execution - with the Sudden Death proc you can execute regardless of the target's current health.

i.e.
Sudden Death (new) - Your melee critical hits have a 10%/20/30% chance of allowing the use of Execute regardless of the target's health state.

It can certainly be interpreted that way, but my gut feeling is the rogue talent will just provide blanket immunity to execute (based off of nothing tangible mind you, straight outta my ass.)



The Vigilance ability does seem custom built for taunt fights, Bear Boss in ZA is a perfect example. It's also seems to be extremely handy for that DPS'er that just can't reign it in for a 5 man... of course this will just give them an excuse to be even larger Aggro whores 

[Register]

I think that there are many new / changed talents that specifically addresses the glaring weakness of the class in PVE/PVP. It's great that Blizzard is paying attention to the class issues.

PVP wise I see the boosting of alternative melees to make then more viable compared to Warrior/Rogue.

Feral druids is given cat form feral charge, adding of a stun finisher, passive infected wounds for stacking snare plus melee haste debuff and beserk for dps burst and CC immunity. Enhance Shamans are given CC immunity with Shamanistic Rage and their lower tier enh talents are greatly improve, they also get the spirit wolfs pet i.e. Thrall's ability in WC3 finally. Not sure how they can make Ret pally's more competitive though...

[Fordel]

By Re-Designing the class... again...   

Not just Ret, the whole damn thing. They can start by making all three specs work off of AP instead of this shitty spell/melee hybrid shit. Then they can rework Holy entirely so its more Friar, far less pretend priest. Prot would just need some minor tweaks, some trimming in the Prot tree would be keen as well. Ret (and our new Melee Healer Holy tree) would benefit dramatically from a proper combat system. Seal Judge Seal is just haphazard at best.

[Ragnoros]

Check out:
Sudden Death (new) - Your melee critical hits have a 10%/20/30% chance of allowing the use of Execute regardless of the target's health state.

Can imagine the screenshots, 3k MS, 2K white melee then 10K execute for death in 2 seconds - you dont want to be anywhere near a warrior with full rage bar...

While thats fine for kill videos n screen caps it's total crap for arenas.

I'm not claiming to be a good arena warrior, in fact I am a bad one. However I will say that one of the first things I was told is that execute is very often NOT your friend. Because a warrior who dumped all his rage into execute and left his target at 2% hp now has no rage to intercept, pummel or snare him, so if said target happens to walk out of melee range or w/e you are screwed and generally he will be fully healed or long gone before your slow rageless ass can do jack squat about it.

[Ratama]

I'm not claiming to be a good arena warrior, in fact I am a bad one. However I will say that one of the first things I was told is that execute is very often NOT your friend. Because a warrior who dumped all his rage into execute and left his target at 2% hp now has no rage to intercept, pummel or snare him, so if said target happens to walk out of melee range or w/e you are screwed and generally he will be fully healed or long gone before your slow rageless ass can do jack squat about it.

You're absolutely right; unless Execute scales much better in WotLK, that talent's actually going to be a bit of a pooper.

If I could somehow change my arena partner's Execute to "Only at 10% life or less, and min 50 Rage", we'd win more games; also, watching someone recover from single-digit % life to full is frustrating as hell.

Even in PvE... unless you're taking a lot of AE damage, or tanking, and have more rage than you can spend on your DPS rotation, spamming execute at  is actually a DPS decrease.

[Ragnoros]

Don't get me wrong, I'm pumped for the new expansion. Warriors did get some very nice changes in their Prot tree. Trainable Shieldslam and other changes should go a long way towards making non prot speced warriors useful tanks again. I know right now trying to tank in arms or fury is a damn pain, as you just can't generate enough threat to keep up with well geared players.

But lets look at what shaman got for the expansion.

Hex!!! They have been wanting a CC FOREVER AND EVER. Not only will this boost their utility in five/ten mans greatly, it's going to be uber for arenas. HUGE HUGE buff.
Quite frankly unless hunters get a talent to buff their IQ or pallies get something incredible like perma bubble this will be the biggest buff any class gets for the expansion.

Elemental: Thunder is very fun sounding, how useful it will be is questionable. AoE is always good tho. Astral shift should be useful for avoiding gibs. Between Hex, Totems and Healing I would now much rather a Ele Shaman then a Mage in my Five/Ten man.
Enhance: Imp Shamanistic Rage is damn nice, would take this over bladestorm for sure. Spirit wolves should be fun too. Dunno how effective tho. Likewise thanks to Hex, Totems and Heals I would take a Enhance shaman over a rogue or fury warrior any day.
Resto: Spirit link will have thousands of uses. Ancestral Awakening is sweet and will keep them solidly in the best multi target healer spot, as even spamming heals on a Main Tank they will be healing the whole raid. And once again Hex = Uber.

While I will admit I don't know how much a shamans DPS/Healing is dependent on spec. It just seems like a good shaman would bring more to a team then any pure DPS or Healing class could ever hope to.

Mind you this is mostly due to the fact that hybrid classes have been getting a lot of love over the last couple years--which they needed--and it looks to continue in the expansion. I think blizz and the playerbase is going to run into the problem that a good well geared hybrid class is going to do it's main job as good as any pure class, and just bring so much utility to a group there will be little to no reason to bring a pure class over a hybrid.

[Ironwood]

Since the change from Atrocity to Cripple, Locks now have a new CC as well.

They can Seduce, Banish and Cripple.

Awesome.

[Fordel]

Hex - Transforms the enemy into a random critter, reducing the target's movement speed by 75%. While moving, the hexed target cannot attack or cast spells. Only one target can be hexed at a time. Only works on Humanoids and Beasts.



While certainly leaps and bounds superior to having no CC at all. It's really just a fancy snare from the wording.



I have a hard time seeing Cripple going in as is currently.

[MrHat]

Hex - Transforms the enemy into a random critter, reducing the target's movement speed by 75%. While moving, the hexed target cannot attack or cast spells. Only one target can be hexed at a time. Only works on Humanoids and Beasts.



While certainly leaps and bounds superior to having no CC at all. It's really just a fancy snare from the wording.



I have a hard time seeing Cripple going in as is currently.

[Fordel]

While moving.

[Simond]

If it's anything like NPC Hex, you get the "wander around aimlessly" bit like polymorph.

[Merusk]

Still no word on hunters, eh?

I'm expecting the uber: "Hunters now can rename their pets more than once."

Yeah, that'll make them AWESOME.

[Fordel]

If it's anything like NPC Hex, you get the "wander around aimlessly" bit like polymorph.

The NPC Hex is just Polymorph with a different name. This Hex specifically mentions movement speed reduction, which would be moot if it was just Poly 2.0. There is also no mention of 'heals the target while hexed' like Poly, nor that it breaks on damage, which would make it flat out superior to Poly if it just turned you into a critter to wander around.

It's much more similar to a Mages Slow then Polymorph, outside of the fact you'll be a chipmunk or frog while Hexed.


Of course blah blah Alpha blah change blah etc. 

[Dren]

If it's anything like NPC Hex, you get the "wander around aimlessly" bit like polymorph.

The NPC Hex is just Polymorph with a different name. This Hex specifically mentions movement speed reduction, which would be moot if it was just Poly 2.0. There is also no mention of 'heals the target while hexed' like Poly, nor that it breaks on damage, which would make it flat out superior to Poly if it just turned you into a critter to wander around.

It's much more similar to a Mages Slow then Polymorph, outside of the fact you'll be a chipmunk or frog while Hexed.


Of course blah blah Alpha blah change blah etc. 

I highly doubt they will have you swinging your weapon or casting as a .... frog.  My guess is that they just wrote that description wrong or in a confusing way.  I suspect it to be exactly like the NPC hex we've all seen before.  Yes, it will be better than Poly on the surface.  It might have a shorter duration though or something to balance.  Who knows...

[Chimpy]

I still say 95%+ of this stuff is utter BS.

This is coming from hearing everyone go on and on about how BC was going to be this time last year, and everyone being dead wrong.


The only thing that is believable is that hunters have not had anything leaked yet, as blizzard still doesn't have a single person who understands jack shit about the class on the dev team. Simple shit like "feed pet works in combat" and "more than 3 stable slots" and "Viper sting needs a cooldown that makes sense in regards to the length of the sting" kind of stuff.

[kaid]

The hex power has a one minute cool down so while it is strong you cannot chain hex somebody. This would be very useful in pve on the initial pull to lock one mob down. In pve it would be handy but pvp CC is I believe 12 seconds max so while nice given the recast time it would not be to crazy.

Combine that with the ability for druids to root indoors you should be less locked in with heroic 5 mans on class composition and worring about not having enough CC.

[Fordel]

10 seconds is the max for PvP CC currently.


A one minute cool down on Hex would make 'Poly 2.0' seem much more likely. The wording is still strange though.


Druids *finally* being able to root indoors is going to cause a lot of hilarity, in that most people don't understand your not supposed to stand beside a rooted mob. Going to see a lot of people thinking it'll work like shackle and getting exploded by a heroic mob or something. 

[lamaros]

I thought it was 8 seconds or something?

And,

The only thing that is believable is that hunters have not had anything leaked yet, as blizzard still doesn't have a single person who understands jack shit about the class on the dev team.

Relax.

[Register]

Hex - Transforms the enemy into a random critter, reducing the target's movement speed by 75%. While moving, the hexed target cannot attack or cast spells. Only one target can be hexed at a time. Only works on Humanoids and Beasts.

While certainly leaps and bounds superior to having no CC at all. It's really just a fancy snare from the wording.

I have a hard time seeing Cripple going in as is currently.

Hex sounds like snare + silence on melee - you have to stand still for them to hit you.

Cripple's description is pretty insane - the snare is very nice, but the super long duration silence (20 sec!?!) sounds completely over the top.(Pacification removed from cripple though) If it goes in as its current state, Cripple = I WIN over caster classes.

[Fordel]

All CC in PvP combat has a max duration of 10 seconds, was changed a patch or two ago to try and help the dominance of certain classes being able to completely lock out other certain classes.



Yea, even with a 10 second duration in PvP, Cripple might as well be a 'autogib caster' button. Of course, maybe they are reworking silence mechanics for WoTLK! Maybe? Please?

[Calantus]

"Viper sting needs a cooldown that makes sense in regards to the length of the sting" kind of stuff.

Unless you're thinking of making the cooldown longer you can fuck RIGHT off.

[Simond]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=9499.0
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=9484.0
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=9454.0


From the PvP one:

Siege Vehicles
The Demolisher

    * The Demolisher has both short and long range attacks
    * It is meant to bombard players and buildings from a long distance, it's also equipped with a ram to siege buildings.
    * It can hold up to 3 passengers, passengers are exposed and can be targeted individually. However, players can cast while the vehicle is moving if they're in it.


Forsaken Catapult

    * The catapult is faster than the demolisher but its range is slightly lower.
    * It does slightly less damage.
    * It cannot hold any pessenger.


The Siege Engine

    * This is the siege weapon with the longest range.
    * The gunner is sitting in the turrent and has full control of the turret.
    * The driver is only moving the vehicle.
    * The passengers in this vehicle are fully protected but can't shoot other enemies.
    * It's also got a very powerful ramming attack


Flying machine

    * Flying Machines can bomb enemies, they're swift but very vulnerable to anti-air attacks.


Goblin Shredder

    * The shredder is an anti-air vehicle.
    * It will use anti-air rockets, they're long range homing missiles.
    * This is a personal armor suit, if the vehicle is destroyed the player just jumps out and keep fighting on his own.
    * You can use your sawblade as close range melee attacks.
    * The shredder can jump into the air just like rocket boots for players. This can also be used to jump over walls.
    * The shredder is very vulnerable to siege damage.

Oh, and the new BG is the D-Day Landings.

[Merusk]

Fuck me, some nice changes on those listings.

    * There will be a 10/25 players mode for each raid dungeon.
    * Heroic dungeons will be made slightly easier, at least devs are going to make sure you don't necessarily need a specific class like a prot warrior to complete it.
    * Some dungeons were too long in Burning Crusade and completing a dungeon shouldn't take more than an hour.
    * Attunements to enter Heroic instances will be removed.
Reputation

    * You will be able to earn reputation toward a specific faction by becoming its "champion", for example by wearing a Cenarion Circle tabard while running Hellfire Ramparts you will earn reputation for both Honor Hold/Thrallmar and Cenarion Circle. Obviously tabards reputation requirements will be changed to something like friendly/honored.

 

Hell, and even more.

    * Most of the shaman totems, Unleashed Rage, and Battle Shout are some of the buffs changed in WotLK to affect the whole raid instead of the party.
    * There is a plan to give player access to two talent specs to switch between them without having to respec all the time. More details in the future.

And of course, hunters are still in "what should we do with them land"

Hunter

    * All kind of pets will have their own talent tree. A tanking talent tree, a DPS talent tree, and an utility talent tree. Each kind of pet family will have its own talent tree and its own unique ability.
    * The shot clipping will be removed from Steady Shot, you'll be able to use it without "interrupting" your autoshot. Hunters will be able to just smash their button.
    * There are going to be new pets in WotLK.
    * The skill points for each pets are being changed to the new "Pet talents" and will disappear.

*sigh*  Not that the steady shot change isn't nice, but it only affects those who didn't have clue 1 about the class in the first place.  I *STILL* run across hunters doing the old aimed-multi-arcane-aimed rotation.  "Steady shot doesn't do enough damage" they say.  Mother-fuck-me.  Clueless asswipes.

The other changes.. eh, maybe they'll be nice but we'll have to see what the pet 'talents' are.  I don't expect too much variety here, I think it's just a way to try and fix the "two stable slots for pets one for taming" problem.  I'm happier as a warlock or a druid nowadays anywho.

[Sjofn]

C'mon now, the pet talent thing is probably going to be awesome. I look forward to messing with it on my hunter. Of course, I've always thought hunters were rad and the people whining about how omg the class sux so bad waaaaah were crazy. This is probably because my first character was a paladin.

Maybe I can trade in my paladin and become a hunter pet. :(

[Paelos]

Hunters suck.





Reroll.


Everything else sounds fine. "Oh attunements were a bad idea?" Glad to see you caught on you assheads.

[Merusk]

C'mon now, the pet talent thing is probably going to be awesome. I look forward to messing with it on my hunter. Of course, I've always thought hunters were rad and the people whining about how omg the class sux so bad waaaaah were crazy.

Hunters are rad for soloing.  They have a ton of tools and survivability, and if played hyper-extensively well they can be a damn tough opponent in PVP, capable of taking-down anything.

However, they bring very little beyond DPS and a touchy, non-recastable CC to 5 and 10-mans. I accept that for its awesome solo ability and a potential in PVP unmatched by other classes (IF you have the skill for it) they bring little to the table that other classes don't do better in that environment.   I'd rather take a Warlock or Mage or - now with root being castable indoors even a boomkin - before a hunter... and I love the damn class.    If I had to give-up some of the hunter's DPS for a warlock's poorer DPS, solo ability and utility I'd do so gladly.   

Also, now that I play a warlock they truly, truly are "just roll your face on the keyboard to win" in pvp.  It's sickening.  At 66 I've taken-down folks 3 and 4 levels higher than me in just green quest gear (so long as I get no/ few resists).  That's just not right. My power can only grow in these last 4 levels and acquire endgame gear and it's never as hard as it was as a hunter.  Not even the least little bit.

[K9]

The new arenas look like caster slaughterhouses. They're tiny and offer no obviously good means of escape. I know pillar humping blows, but a small open room seems to go too far the other way.

[Dren]

Two talent specs to switch between!  Exactly what I've been asking for.  My Paladin, Warlock, Druid, Mage, Priest, Shaman, and Warrior thank you!  My Rogue really has nothing to say.

[Ironwood]

What are we doing to reassure ourselves that this is right ?  Most of those changes look like pie in the sky shite.

[MrHat]

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

[Merusk]

What are we doing to reassure ourselves that this is right ?  Most of those changes look like pie in the sky shite.

It has as much cred as any of the preview stuff from BC when they held panels with the designers. (which is where these were glommed from)Considering I can't think of anything from those panels that DIDN'T make it in, it adds a lot of cred with me at the least.

Here's my big problem.  They really really shouldn't have held back so many of these changes for the expansion.  I'd still be playing if they had kept patching in all this good stuff at a regular pace.

I have to agree.  The removal of heroic attunements and the "Champion of xyz" thing at the very least should have been included in a live patch.

[Kitsune]

I've never really gotten the class hate on anyone.  As long as any group I made had healer and tank covered, I'd let in anyone; hunters always did fine.  They may not be a super-optimal class for having in the group, but I never objected to the benefit of their traps, and they pulled their weight in DPS.  The only times I got annoyed are when people were trying to get 'creative' with their class and fucked things up for the group.  A priest who would manadump offensive spells on every fight, get aggro, and run around in circles screaming for heals before dying.  A paladin with some bizarre talent mix who was trying to tank with no shield and using Consecration for aggro (back when it was a talent) who died repeatedly because he couldn't actually take the damage and burned all his mana on the Consecrations.  I'm fine with people being experimental, as long as it actually works.  When it obviously isn't working, though, it would be nice if they stopped being fuckups and tried a new tactic.