Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm so glad you are taking up my habits.

[Malakili]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYjljdje-g

Has that been posted? Amazing.

Stop using this thread to promote your youtube channel schild.

[Reg]

Hah, I watched that and thought to myself "Man, it's a good thing Schild finally got a job in the gaming industry!"

[Rasix]

I'm so glad you are taking up my habits.

Big diff.  He used words that were his own at some point in the post. 

I don't know that to think of that video.  I just.. I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I just got trolled.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm so glad you are taking up my habits.

Big diff.  He used words that were his own at some point in the post. 

I don't know that to think of that video.  I just.. I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I just got trolled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYjljdje-g&feature=relmfu

 

[Rasix]

Ahh, I didn't know what annoying habit you were referring to.  Apologies.

 

[ezrast]

I don't know that to think of that video.  I just.. I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I just got trolled.

A glance at his channel says you did. He's normal in some videos, parodies himself in others.

[Mrbloodworth]

Ahh, I didn't know what annoying habit you were referring to.  Apologies.

 

Np, I have so many. 

[Malakili]

I'm so glad you are taking up my habits.

Big diff.  He used words that were his own at some point in the post. 

I don't know that to think of that video.  I just.. I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I just got trolled.

Yeah, its parody.

[Furiously]

If you want a fun evening google, "What art do serial killers like".

[Yegolev]

I will actually click on a YouTube link posted by schild.  Anyway, yes, that was hilarious.  "League of Legends!  That's what you're doing to us!"

[Hawkbit]

Is it wrong that I got a lot more excited about the PVP/Arena stuff once they removed stat points/talents?  I'm very interesting to see how it all pans out.  Will it be anything like Bloodline Champions, maybe?

[Count Nerfedalot]

What exactly is an MMO? Didn't we have this argument 8 or 10 years ago?  Way too many folks back then were actively abusing or willingly compliant with the abuse of the term to allow it to refer to just about any online game that had more than a few total players.  As a result, the term has been diluted and degraded to the point where it is basically meaningless, and thus useless for meaningful communication.  Perfect for marketing!   

But to reclaim the original, useful definition, there is more than one characteristic a game must have to be an MMO.  These include, but there may be others:

    World persistence.  Not necessarily unchanging, any changes persist as well.

    Character progression.

    Character persistence.

    Online only play. (duh)

    Multiplayer play (duh again).  This is not exclusive of the ability to play solo, but rather specifically inclusive of the ability to play with others.

    And the most discriminatory and most debated, massive.  IMNSHO massive means the pesisted game world is shared with many other persisted characters AND that a large portion of your game experience occurs in a shared environment where you may randomly encounter other players.  Again this is not exclusive of instancing, but it does exclude games where most or all of the actual play is in instances. So Guild Wars is not an MMO while City of Heroes/Villains is.

A game must have ALL of these traits to be an MMO, not just some or most.  Although you might be able to rationally argue about the necessity of the first three, the last three are part of the label itself and arguing that they are unneccessary is irrational.

[calapine]

You missed following criteria to determine if a game is a real mmorpg or not:

Must have nonconsensual pvp

Full body loot

Must have pre-casting

Must be pre-Trammel

Cala

[tazelbain]

WOW! That was a totally awesome troll.  How did your Kung Fu get so strong?

World metaphor is the item missing from the list.

[eldaec]

    World persistence.  Not necessarily unchanging, any changes persist as well.

Persistent worlds never used to mean worlds that don't change, it was intended to mean whatever you changed, stayed the fuck changed because the world continues to exist whether or not you are there to maintain its existence.

The unchanging thing is the best example of diminishing expectations I can possibly think of.

[Stabs]

I like my definition best.

An MMO is a game that is called a MMO by the people who make it. It's a brand, nothing more.

[Malakili]

    World persistence.  Not necessarily unchanging, any changes persist as well.

Persistent worlds never used to mean worlds that don't change, it was intended to mean whatever you changed, stayed the fuck changed because the world continues to exist whether or not you are there to maintain its existence.

The unchanging thing is the best example of diminishing expectations I can possibly think of.

A million times this.

[Lantyssa]

Yeah.  MUDs had more world persistence than most modern MMOs, and that is kind of pathetic.

[Sjofn]

MUDs had what, 100 people on at a time if they were popular?

My MUD didn't change a whole lot, really, areas would get added or updated but those weren't vastly different from when an MMO does it in an expansion, except they were done by volunteers and you had to hope the QA people were good (my MUD had pretty good QA and Ingmar was the World Bastard for a while, so it usually made sense as a bonus!).

[MuffinMan]

MUDs had what, 100 people on at a time if they were popular?

I don't know about actual numbers but it sure felt like more people than 100 back when I played Gemstone/Dragonrealms on AOL. My parents were sure relieved when AOL went unlimited instead of by the hour.

[Malakili]

MUDs had what, 100 people on at a time if they were popular?

I don't know about actual numbers but it sure felt like more people than 100 back when I played Gemstone/Dragonrealms on AOL. My parents were sure relieved when AOL went unlimited instead of by the hour.

Likely because you were actually interacting with players regularly rather than just playing next to them.

[Tebonas]

100 people would have been fine, though. Because they weren't called MMUDs!

[Merusk]

Gemstone/ DR had more than 100 people but they were a vastly different product.  I believe Avalon also had more people on it. 

The most players I ever saw on a free MUD was the Waterdeep mud, at about 150-200 players.  Amazing, since it was run by this little prick of a 16 year old and used more Final Fantasy stuff than D&D.  It was popular because you were way overpowered and FF7 was big at the time.

[MuffinMan]

Gemstone/ DR had more than 100 people but they were a vastly different product.

How so? I'm too young to have played any text based online games other than those two before I started playing The Realm and UO.

[Merusk]

Much more complex combat and other systems than your average MUD who threw the Circle/ ROM/ Smaug/ GODWARS whatever base out there with tweaks.  They built a world, lots of MUDs took parts of standard freely available parts and slapped them together.  (Most MUDs I saw had Moria or the Smurf Villiage, for example.)  Plus events, subsystems and questing that I didn't see on most MUDs.

They were a professional product run by professionals.  It's going to lead to some differences when compared to even the most lovingly cared-for hobbist MUD.

[Count Nerfedalot]

I like my definition best.

An MMO is a game that is called a MMO by the people who make it. It's a brand, nothing more.

some people use words to communicate, others use them to obfuscate.  Your preference is great for the latter usage, not so much for the former.

[Count Nerfedalot]

    World persistence.  Not necessarily unchanging, any changes persist as well.

Persistent worlds never used to mean worlds that don't change, it was intended to mean whatever you changed, stayed the fuck changed because the world continues to exist whether or not you are there to maintain its existence.

The unchanging thing is the best example of diminishing expectations I can possibly think of.

Absolutely agree.  I threw that in to preempt the some of the stupid I'd just recently seen where trolls were arguing that world persistence meant a static unchanging world and that was no fun.    The best persistent world IMO is one that exists and progresses with or without the players.  Players can affect it, but if they don't it should still at least feel like "stuff" would happen and "things" would change over time.  I loved the original Asheron's Call for giving the illusion of that just by having actual seasons that changed the look of the world as time passed.  Of course, then they went and made actual changes to the world that mucked it up. 

[Ingmar]

    World persistence.  Not necessarily unchanging, any changes persist as well.

Persistent worlds never used to mean worlds that don't change, it was intended to mean whatever you changed, stayed the fuck changed because the world continues to exist whether or not you are there to maintain its existence.

The unchanging thing is the best example of diminishing expectations I can possibly think of.

Absolutely agree.  I threw that in to preempt the some of the stupid I'd just recently seen where trolls were arguing that world persistence meant a static unchanging world and that was no fun.    The best persistent world IMO is one that exists and progresses with or without the players.  Players can affect it, but if they don't it should still at least feel like "stuff" would happen and "things" would change over time.  I loved the original Asheron's Call for giving the illusion of that just by having actual seasons that changed the look of the world as time passed.  Of course, then they went and made actual changes to the world that mucked it up. 

The only thing persistent world ever meant was "it stays running when you log out."

[Stabs]

The only thing persistent world ever meant was "it stays running when you log out."

Which is, when you think about it, one of the least important aspects of any game. It can do handstands and fart the National Anthem when I log out and I still won't care because I'm not logged in.

[Paelos]

The only thing persistent world ever meant was "it stays running when you log out."

Which is, when you think about it, one of the least important aspects of any game. It can do handstands and fart the National Anthem when I log out and I still won't care because I'm not logged in.

Uh, no. It's very important if you have a world economy. I care that shit gets traded when I'm not there because I don't want to log in for it to be up on the house.

[Stabs]

The only thing persistent world ever meant was "it stays running when you log out."

Which is, when you think about it, one of the least important aspects of any game. It can do handstands and fart the National Anthem when I log out and I still won't care because I'm not logged in.

Uh, no. It's very important if you have a world economy. I care that shit gets traded when I'm not there because I don't want to log in for it to be up on the house.

Diablo 3 will have a persistent economy. If the definition of MMO is an economy that stays active when you log out then it certainly qualifies.

[calapine]

Diablo 3 will have a persistent economy. If the definition of MMO is an economy that stays active when you log out then it certainly qualifies.

Well, that is NOT the defintion of an MMO though. I don't remember anyone in here claiming that Diablo is an MMO, so I am a bit confused what the argument actually is.

Cala

FakeEdit: I apologise for my semi-troll. I just tried to be witty - I won't do that again.

[Paelos]

I forgot why we were arguing what an MMO is either.

If we're busting chops over semantics we should be doing it over something important, like the expected EULA Blizzard will release with this.

[Amaron]

I forgot why we were arguing what an MMO is either.

Because people who play Diablo single player are doing it wrong?