Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Malakili]

Why is hacking/botting or using character editors a problem in a Diablo game? Its a personal choise to use them. Did a whole slew of people play PUG diablo?

A whole slew of people played on closed battle.net.

[FieryBalrog]

Why is hacking/botting or using character editors a problem in a Diablo game? Its a personal choise to use them. Did a whole slew of people play PUG diablo?

If you ever tried to play Diablo 1 on battlenet, back when everything was stored client-side, you'll know why hacking/botting basically demolish any game you play with non-friends, you were just asking to get kicked in the nuts with instadeath or people trying to bug your character out. Even if you only PuGed sometimes, you often wanted to trade or duel or just play in games where other people were doing shit (to up the difficulty).

Because D2 was a relatively secure environment on closed Bnet- I say relatively because it still suffered from duping, scamming and spamming, but not the gameplay hacks and trainers- you could actually do these things. In fact playing in this environment was the whole charm of the game for me, because of the trades, the duels and the co-op. I can't imagine playing an ARPG solo, ever. That's why Torchlight and TQ just didn't do anything for me- no server side online, no play.

D2 open Bnet was still a shitfest though, which is why no one really used it except for you and a friend to play your single player characters together. Even then you could just go direct IP (I think).

[Mrbloodworth]

Who plays with non-friends?

[Merusk]

So what's going to stop anyone botting?

For that matter, isn't this gambling? You play, hope you get a nice random roll of the dice, and can then take your chips and cash out? Like pure, total casino type gambling?

I had the same thought about bots.  This is going to increase the WOW botting issue by a few ten-thousandfold. There's big, big money to be made here.

Which then raises the Taxation issue.  Kentucky, among other states, has a requirement that online vendors collect sales tax or that the tax payer reports the transaction on their state taxes.   Does this mean that Blizzard should be taking a transaction fee for every item that drops, or just those I sell? After all, I can still sell on E-bay instead of the online AH, so each and every item has an assessed cash value now.  One the company endorses.

I wonder what Senators McConnell and Paul will say when I write them.

[Malakili]

Who plays with non-friends?

  I traded with people I didn't know daily in D2 for years.  I did Cow-Runs with my high level characters often with a couple friends and we'd join cow running groups together so we were playing together but with other non-friends.   My loot farming runs were generally speaking solo though.

[Amaron]

Did a whole slew of people play PUG diablo?

Millions of people played PUG diablo.   Single player is always more but people who only play with known friends are an extreme minority in any kind of lobby game.

[FieryBalrog]

Who plays with non-friends?

You ever want to trade? You have to join a game with a non-friend (though not necessary in D3) and of course be on a closed, secure bnet. That was one of the best parts of D2. You want to jump Act 3? You're probably going to have to get the Durance WP from a PuG. You want to play in a max players game for the increased loot/xp? Join a PuG. Speedrun your character with no friends on? Join a PuG. It was much faster to do Baal runs and so on in PuGs.

And of course you always have the option of playing solo or only with friends too, in private games. Best of both worlds.

Plus ladder runewords.

[Reg]

I didn't do any of that shit. I just played D2 single player and never signed onto battlenet at all.  Obviously, D3 isn't for me anymore.

[Malakili]

I didn't do any of that shit. I just played D2 single player and never signed onto battlenet at all.  Obviously, D3 isn't for me anymore.

Why though?  Whats stopping your from creating a private game and playing solo all the way through and never talking to another soul?  I don't understand how any of this stops people from playing solo or with just their friends.

[Mrbloodworth]

If I wanted to play with friends at a higher level, I edited the character. Much like making a character in DnD. I do not get the appeal of PUG Diablo, or I do as much as PUG MMO.

This is Blizzard making a quasi-MMO. Locking all this down only justifies having the AH, and cash flow after your 60$ from it.

[FieryBalrog]

I didn't do any of that shit. I just played D2 single player and never signed onto battlenet at all.  Obviously, D3 isn't for me anymore.

Why though?  Whats stopping your from creating a private game and playing solo all the way through and never talking to another soul?  I don't understand how any of this stops people from playing solo or with just their friends.

Yea, its the option that I always wanted. I just saw no reason to play a single player character after the first time I tried it (and gave up in Act 3 of course). If I had internet, I wanted to be advancing my character online. And if I didn't, single player Diablo was blah enough that I'd rather just do something else, especially since it would go towards a character I'd probably never play again.

I don't see the need to remove single player though, enough people want it and you just separate it from the online game like in D2. Its guaranteed to lose them some sales.

[Malakili]

If I wanted to play with friends at a higher level, I edited the character. Much like making a character in DnD. I do not get the appeal of PUG Diablo, or I do as much as PUG MMO.

This is Blizzard making a quasi-MMO. Locking all this down only justifies having the AH, and cash flow after your 60$ from it.

Diablo 2 was always a quasi MMO to most of us, I think.

[Reg]

I very much doubt that.

[FieryBalrog]

If I wanted to play with friends at a higher level, I edited the character. Much like making a character in DnD. I do not get the appeal of PUG Diablo, or I do as much as PUG MMO.

This is Blizzard making a quasi-MMO. Locking all this down only justifies having the AH, and cash flow after your 60$ from it.

Diablo 2 was always a quasi MMO to most of us, I think.

At least, it was the only way I enjoyed it. I had way more fun MFing and setting up trades and co-oping than I did playing solo which I did when I first got the game. I just couldn't get through Act 3, lol. That shit was terribly designed.

With their rudimentary non-stories and combat, ARPGs to me are mediocre games unless you're playing co-op or playing the economy. The rest of the game serves as an interesting framework for doing that. Since it was impossible for games like Torchlight to have an economy (and in Torchlight's case, no co-op either) it killed a lot of my interest in it.

[Mrbloodworth]

What economy? It was Diablo.

[Malakili]

What economy? It was Diablo.

Are you serious?  Its like we didn't even play the same game.

[FieryBalrog]

What economy? It was Diablo.

I guess you're not going to believe me when I say I spent about half my time in the chat channel or in trade games.

[Mrbloodworth]

What economy? It was Diablo.

Are you serious?  Its like we didn't even play the same game.

It seems we did not.

[Reg]

I absolutely believe you. What I don't believe is that you and Malakill are a majority.  I'm sure that Activision has all kinds of market research about this. Have they made any of it public?

[Mrbloodworth]

Only thing I read about when I Google "Diablo 2 economy" is some catassing for ladder games/rewards where players made a trade system using the battle.net system.

I find that somewhat retarded, now its built right in. Meanwhile the rest of us now are hamstrung with the removal of all flexibility in the game, in order for Blizzard to cash in. No longer can i join friends games that have higher characters, Nope I have to spend more money to buy a new toon, or grind it out. Now, all Diablo sessions will have to be started and stopped depending on the full group of people and availability. I'm sure this will help those that "Earned it" feel better. Also, why do I get the feeling there is going to be a huge button on my screen while I play for the AH?

[Mosesandstick]

I played D2 as a quasi MMO and I think this is a bad, bad move. At least they can make sure everybody gets to enjoy endless Meph runs.

[Malakili]

I absolutely believe you. What I don't believe is that you and Malakill are a majority.  I'm sure that Activision has all kinds of market research about this. Have they made any of it public?

I haven't seen any of it.  I do know that sites like http://d2legit.com are still active 11 years after release.  I never did real money stuff, but clearly there is a market for closed battle.net items still, and its serious enough that people are willing to pay cash.  The ladders are still very active as well.  I'm sure a lot of people still play off line, especially with mods like Median XL.  But it seems to me closed battle.net has always been "Where its at" with Diablo 2.  

[FieryBalrog]

I absolutely believe you. What I don't believe is that you and Malakill are a majority.  I'm sure that Activision has all kinds of market research about this. Have they made any of it public?

Well I don't think we were a majority either. However, that in itself doesn't mean anything. A lot of people play single player just because to them multiplayer means you have to play with other people and they don't know anyone to play with. Or they think single player is the "default" or the "story mode", or whatever. So what really matters is how many of them will buy the game, click "play game" and just play solo while barely caring that they're technically online now. Basically, its meant to be the Xbox Live experience where most users are seamlessly online all the time anyway, even if they're not actively engaging in multiplayer.

Starcraft 2 shows how its done; although you can boot it up in offline mode, people who play single player aren't going to go out of their way to do that. They just click on the single player tab up top and play that, even though they're still connected.

There will certainly be a set of consumers who are angry or turned off by the inability to play offline, they probably don't think that's large enough. I would tend to agree given how SC2 worked out.

[Malakili]

Only thing I read about when I Google "Diablo 2 economy" is some catassing for ladder games/rewards where players made a trade system using the battle.net system.

I find that somewhat retarded, now its built right in. Meanwhile the rest of us now are hamstrung with the removal of all flexibility in the game, in order for Blizzard to cash in. No longer can i join friends games that have higher characters, Nope I have to spend more money to buy a new toon, or grind it out. Now, all Diablo sessions will have to be started and stopped depending on the full group of people and availability. I'm sure this will help those that "Earned it" feel better. Also, why do I get the feeling there is going to be a huge button on my screen while I play for the AH?

Most of the "in game" Diablo 2 economy stuff was done through the battle.net chat channels.  Stuff like "Looking for Harlequin Crest, offering three SOJS"  This stuff was non stop 24/7 in any of the trade channels.

[FieryBalrog]

Only thing I read about when I Google "Diablo 2 economy" is some catassing for ladder games/rewards where players made a trade system using the battle.net system.

I find that somewhat retarded, now its built right in. Meanwhile the rest of us now are hamstrung with the removal of all flexibility in the game, in order for Blizzard to cash in. No longer can i join friends games that have higher characters, Nope I have to spend more money to buy a new toon, or grind it out.

Diablo 2 wasn't WoW, in that you could play with much higher level characters and you'd quickly rise to match their level- I never used edits because I played on closed bnet, but we were mostly able to play together. Diablo 3 has a similar implementation according to the Jay Wilson interview on diablofans. I do understand where you're coming from, but if they had a single player they definitely weren't going to have LAN anyway as Starcraft 2 shows.

Now, all Diablo sessions will have to be started and stopped depending on the full group of people and availability. I'm sure this will help those that "Earned it" feel better. Also, why do I get the feeling there is going to be a huge button on my screen while I play for the AH?

The AH is an option from the main menu. It's not going to be in game at release (same interview). The devs might add the ability to access it in game after release.

[Mrbloodworth]

D2

"Hay want to play a game?

"Sure!, what level or part you want to play?"

"Lets play level 20ish"

"OK!" *Edits toon*

*Plays game happily all evening with 3 friends.*


D3

"Hay want to play a game?

"Sure!, what level are you?"

"Im at level 30"

"Shit, give me 5 hours, oh never mind there is a level 30 necromancer for 15$, one moment"


*Plays, but has guilt.*

[Malakili]

Diablo 2: The end game is all that mattered.
Diablo 3: The end game is all that will matter.

[Mosesandstick]

How many alts did you have?

[Malakili]

How many alts did you have?

Me?  I had a high level character of each class and a couple separate accounts just for mules, but it seems like mules won't be needed now with shared stash space available.

[Mrbloodworth]

I like the last comment in the Diablo Economy article:

what happened to playing for fun

why is there such a non gameing fun any more

How many alts did you have?

As many as I wanted!

[Margalis]

Wow.

The appeal of Diablo was already largely based on gambling, but at least it was fake gambling! I'm not sure what's worse, if people can make real money off of this or if people just think they can and grind for hours for $1.50.

Also to me it really diminishes the thrill of picking up loot if you have an auction house that lists a ton of items that are way better than what you just picked up and you can sell what you just picked up to get one of those AH items. In essence enemies now drop randomized amounts of cash rather than items.

To me random loot drops are always better than currency drops. (Or things that are easily converted into currency and where there are plenty of items for sale) It's fun to get random stuff and make due with what you find. I find one of the most fun things in games is working within constraints - maybe you really want a weapon that does X but you find one that does Y so that pushes you down a path you wouldn't have considered.

I'm not a huge fan of Diablo to begin with, my interest has now flatlined.

[Malakili]

Wow.

The appeal of Diablo was already largely based on gambling, but at least it was fake gambling! I'm not sure what's worse, if people can make real money off of this or if people just think they can and grind for hours for $1.50.

Also to me it really diminishes the thrill of picking up loot if you have an auction house that lists a ton of items that are way better than what you just picked up and you can sell what you just picked up to get one of those AH items. In essence enemies now drop randomized amounts of cash rather than items.

To me random loot drops are always better than currency drops. (Or things that are easily converted into currency and where there are plenty of items for sale) It's fun to get random stuff and make due with what you find. I find one of the most fun things in games is working within constraints - maybe you really want a weapon that does X but you find one that does Y so that pushes you down a path you wouldn't have considered.

FWIW Hardcore mode is not going to have the real cash AH.  I'm also greatly looking forward to that mode, HC has always been almost like a separate game for me.

[Outlawedprod]

Sir, your application for Clan DIABLO-EL33t-PK has been rejected.  After review of your application you did not pass our credit score evaluation.  Please re-apply when you have corrected this.  We look forward to adding a strong applicant such as yourself to our group.


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[Margalis]

I look forward to the day when literally no older games work because they can't contact a DRM server or retrieve server-stored data.

[Yegolev]

I think they already shut down Meridian59.