Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Ragnoros]

Well I suppose my last post should have been in a greenish hue. No offense meant to anyone.

Start bitching about things like polish when the game is, you know, less than 2 years away?

I think it's good to talk about stuff like this now while the game is so far off that there's actually time to change it.

This. Not that anyone at blizzard likely cares about our fanboy ramblings.

[Ratman_tf]

Well I suppose my last post should have been in a greenish hue. No offense meant to anyone.

Start bitching about things like polish when the game is, you know, less than 2 years away?

I think it's good to talk about stuff like this now while the game is so far off that there's actually time to change it.

This. Not that anyone at blizzard likely cares about our fanboy ramblings.

Not really. I imagine all the important design work is done, and what makes it into the game is what they have time for without feature creeping it into 2057.
That and a bazillion Blizzard fans equals a bazillion times a bazillion suggestions for things they'd like to see in the game. 

[Paelos]

If you're only using two buttons in D2 you ARE doing it wrong. Moreover, you'll get schooled when you hit Act5 NM. Hard.

Just about any stupid thing will get you through normal. And yes, it's kinda dull, especially if you've been there before and you want more combat options and to get to the real loot, which starts to show up in NM. If you want to actually prosper in Hell difficulty, you have to be very dialed in on both build and playstyle. This doesn't even address level of play in hardcore or soloing in 8-player games (in hardcore). Of course, most in search of a trip down nostalgia lane won't care, but the game really didn't get interesting playwise until NM and Act2.

 I"ve had a retro blast the last couple of days taking my old 'zons back into one of the most difficult areas of the game (Act4 hell diff Chaos Sanctuary). Mowed down hordes of ravening enemies, took their shit, and walked the dog. These are very well equipped mid-80s characters, but it's still fun and brings back old memories. Like how old school lightning fury used to slow the screen to a crawl and get all my teammates killed in the CS. Or stumbling into triple boss pack LEBs in the Kurast temples...and beating their asses when your friends bought a farm in seconds. Or having a bowie get trapped on the stairs between two levels of hell with boss packs on both ends. Epic shootout with frantic decoy and valk positioning. Good times all.

Now D3...we simply don't know much and are just hoping for something that pushes all those old Diablo buttons. So far, consider my buttons pushed. Blizzard does this sort of fun very well. I can cope with control schemes as long as they work and are relatively intuitive. Dodge missles? Hell, I was a 'zon. I slowed them or used a decoy. Or dropped a valk on the offending missileers. Those are options. All classes had options. Some better than others, but you learned. That was fun. I think we'll see more of the same in D3 and that's a good thing.

I heard this whole post in the voice of Macho Man Randy Savage, and it made it a lot funnier.

[nurtsi]

I remember playing through Diablo 1 years ago, whenever it came out. Never played D2 though, so I just installed it yesterday. Looks like shit (but I could expect that given the age), I actually laughed at the walking animations made of four frames Anyway, 20 minutes was enough. It's just too old and there was lots of empty space I had to run around in only to find a group of 3-4 mobs that died from one or two clicks.

I reinstalled Dungeon Siege 2 as well. Of course that game is only three years old or something, but it's much more fun to play. I'm guessing there's no random mazes in it, but there's more monsters to kill and you don't have to run around to find them. The town is boring as hell though with stupid lifts. Controlling multiple characters also adds some tactical depth to combat even though it is mostly trying to keep your guys getting killed by the AI. Can't imagine the system working in multiplayer though as I use pause frequently to give orders to my party. The game is a lot more challenging as some of the mobs can splatter your guys with two hits so there's a fair bit of kiting going around. Also, mad props to Gas Powered Games for making the world seamless, not a single loading screen after I clicked 'New Game'.

There's still Titan Quest I haven't tried, but I might give it a go tonight. Are there any other rogue-clones out there (excluding the text-based ones)?

[Reg]

You really didn't play D2 long enough to get to the good stuff but if you can't get past the age and crap graphics you're probably better off waiting for D3.

[Megrim]

I remember playing through Diablo 1 years ago, whenever it came out. Never played D2 though, so I just installed it yesterday. Looks like shit (but I could expect that given the age), I actually laughed at the walking animations made of four frames Anyway, 20 minutes was enough. It's just too old and there was lots of empty space I had to run around in only to find a group of 3-4 mobs that died from one or two clicks.

I reinstalled Dungeon Siege 2 as well. Of course that game is only three years old or something, but it's much more fun to play. I'm guessing there's no random mazes in it, but there's more monsters to kill and you don't have to run around to find them. The town is boring as hell though with stupid lifts. Controlling multiple characters also adds some tactical depth to combat even though it is mostly trying to keep your guys getting killed by the AI. Can't imagine the system working in multiplayer though as I use pause frequently to give orders to my party. The game is a lot more challenging as some of the mobs can splatter your guys with two hits so there's a fair bit of kiting going around. Also, mad props to Gas Powered Games for making the world seamless, not a single loading screen after I clicked 'New Game'.

There's still Titan Quest I haven't tried, but I might give it a go tonight. Are there any other rogue-clones out there (excluding the text-based ones)?

Titan Quest gets a very big 'meh' from me. Dungeon Siege 2 is probably the best D2 clone available atm - try playing it without party members, because iirc that was one thing they really screwed up from 1, the party control ai. It was just terrible. With one character it's pretty much D2 but prettier, and multi works fine as long as everyone is using a solo character each.

That, plus the Pokemon part of it rocked.

[Mrbloodworth]

On random thought - does Blizzard have something against free camera / PoV movement? First Starcraft 2 provides a mostly fixed perspective, now Diablo 3 does the same thing.

For any other company but Blizzard, people would be asking why they hadn't paid attention to the genre for the past 10 years.

As a side note, allowing a fully controllable camera would mean they would have to put more in to the models and textures, limiting a camera, in any game, means that potential views are known, and assets can be made to maximize, or minimize potential "well thats ugly". Having a fixed view also allows for known framing of "scenes" such as the one from the video, where the little minions were crawling up the sides of the walls from the void beneath.

So, its part design, and part cinematic experience. In most Isometric games, the models and assets are less than that of other games (to a point) and you can put the detail where its needed.

[Trippy]

As I mentioned earlier the gameplay video shows him zooming in and there's that mini in-game engine cutscene with Cain that has the camera zoomed in and pointing parallel to the ground.

[Yegolev]

There could be occasional camera movement without allowing players to control the camera freely.  I recall someone saying that free cameras are a noticeable performance hit.  I'll be fine with a static camera.

[WindupAtheist]

What's a good D2 barbarian build?  I never know WTF to do with one.

[Mosesandstick]

Which version of D2? Makes a massive difference.

[MrHat]

I always like that skill where you rape corpses for potions.

[Hoax]

Titan Quest gets a very big 'meh' from me. Dungeon Siege 2 is probably the best D2 clone available atm - try playing it without party members, because iirc that was one thing they really screwed up from 1, the party control ai. It was just terrible. With one character it's pretty much D2 but prettier, and multi works fine as long as everyone is using a solo character each.

That, plus the Pokemon part of it rocked.

Somebody's never played Darkstone, in fact if my memory of that game serves right Margalis might want to try it out also I think the control scheme was a great deal different.  It wasn't a fixed camera, I at least remember that much.  Pretty good game, also cool that people were able to mod it.  Sadly no b.net is no b.net, same issue Titan Quest had.  Fuck Gamespy, I couldn't even believe that shit still existed.

[Ingmar]

I'd just like a build of D2 that doesn't look like complete ass on my widescreen monitor.

That's the other problem I'm having. 800x600 is ugly as hell on a 1920x1200 monitor.

[DeathInABottle]

If you're only using two buttons in D2 you ARE doing it wrong. Moreover, you'll get schooled when you hit Act5 NM. Hard.

Just about any stupid thing will get you through normal. And yes, it's kinda dull, especially if you've been there before and you want more combat options and to get to the real loot, which starts to show up in NM. If you want to actually prosper in Hell difficulty, you have to be very dialed in on both build and playstyle. This doesn't even address level of play in hardcore or soloing in 8-player games (in hardcore). Of course, most in search of a trip down nostalgia lane won't care, but the game really didn't get interesting playwise until NM and Act2.

 I"ve had a retro blast the last couple of days taking my old 'zons back into one of the most difficult areas of the game (Act4 hell diff Chaos Sanctuary). Mowed down hordes of ravening enemies, took their shit, and walked the dog. These are very well equipped mid-80s characters, but it's still fun and brings back old memories. Like how old school lightning fury used to slow the screen to a crawl and get all my teammates killed in the CS. Or stumbling into triple boss pack LEBs in the Kurast temples...and beating their asses when your friends bought a farm in seconds. Or having a bowie get trapped on the stairs between two levels of hell with boss packs on both ends. Epic shootout with frantic decoy and valk positioning. Good times all.

Now D3...we simply don't know much and are just hoping for something that pushes all those old Diablo buttons. So far, consider my buttons pushed. Blizzard does this sort of fun very well. I can cope with control schemes as long as they work and are relatively intuitive. Dodge missles? Hell, I was a 'zon. I slowed them or used a decoy. Or dropped a valk on the offending missileers. Those are options. All classes had options. Some better than others, but you learned. That was fun. I think we'll see more of the same in D3 and that's a good thing.

God, this really, really makes me want to reinstall the game.  I miss my lvl 97 amazon a LOT.

[Mrbloodworth]

As I mentioned earlier the gameplay video shows him zooming in and there's that mini in-game engine cutscene with Cain that has the camera zoomed in and pointing parallel to the ground.

There could be occasional camera movement without allowing players to control the camera freely.  I recall someone saying that free cameras are a noticeable performance hit.  I'll be fine with a static camera.

Was going to post, user controlled camera, and a scripted one, are completely diffrent things, and what i said before still apply. Its still a controlled environment, and known views are known, placing detail where you need it.

Even if there is a freely user controlled cam, its going to be LOD-vile, and culling goodness.

[Falwell]

Here is a decent video interview with Pardo. 7 minutes long and goes into how long it's been in development, where it stands now etc.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview

[MrHat]

Hrm.

This is looking very God of War like actually.

[Ratman_tf]

Here is a decent video interview with Pardo. 7 minutes long and goes into how long it's been in development, where it stands now etc.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview

Release date! 

[photek]

Hrm.

This is looking very God of War like actually.

Or God of War is just heavily influenced by action-RPGs like D2 perhaps. I also was reminded of GoW when he smashed the wall with the Thunderclap-like ability. Not like any way is a bad thing, God of War freakin rocks also.

[Grand Design]

Release date! 

Tease.

[Margalis]

If you have a fixed camera at that angle it makes it easy to cull geometry against the viewing frustrum. (The cone of vision) In a FPS if you are at the start of a level looking ahead nearly everything will be in the viewing frustrum, and culling has to be done based on occlusion, pre-compiled viewing data, etc. Some engines even force you to place "portals" that help define what is viewable depending on where you are standing rather than pre-calculating it without help. With an isometic view only a little bit of the level is viewable at any given time. Basically you could divide the map up into little zones and

As far as not playing far enough to get the good stuff in Diablo 2, can anyone say *what* the good stuff is? You have to beat the game once first? No thanks.

[Grand Design]

Haters, this is how you bitch about Diablo III.

[lesion]

I kinda agree with that but if I see "cartoon'ish" one more time I'm going to start breathing fire.

[dusematic]

I agree.  D3 is looking a little too WoWish for my tastes.  I want a dark and brutal world of death and hell and rape and piss and shit and moaning and murder.

[Grand Design]

Its a bit tainted with the anti-WoW sentiment, but I'm not exactly a WoW fan either.  I would agree that Blizzard is probably wary to venture far from the art direction of its cash cow, but art is secondary to gameplay in my mind.  Its certainly not something to petition or boycott over, but thus are the times.  Giant shoulder pads and social unrest.  If it actually influences the art direction, that would be interesting.

[MrHat]

I'm sure they'll provide an option to add graininess and/or turn off the bloom stuff going on.

[Ratman_tf]

Haters, this is how you bitch about Diablo III.

Spoiled brats. In my day we played with ascii graphics and liked it!

[Grand Design]

> I smell a Wumpus.

[dusematic]

I love WoW.  I think most D2 nerds do.  But D2 shouldn't look so much like WoW.  They need to step back, take a deep breath, and think about this.  Some of those screenshots look almost exactly like Stratholme in WoW.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I love WoW.  I think most D2 nerds do.  But D2 shouldn't look so much like WoW.  They need to step back, take a deep breath, and think about this.  Some of those screenshots look almost exactly like Stratholme in WoW.

I'd love some comparison shots between D1-D3 and wow. I even like wow but the last thing i thought when i was watching that footage was wow. I think people are....what's that word....stupid?

[Margalis]

It does have a very clean look. Putting back the light radius stuff would make it look a lot more like old Diablo, as would some more texture and blood on the floors and walls. Diablo dungeons looked like slaughterhouses, this one looks like a cathedral.

[Ratman_tf]

Needz moar pentagrams. 

[Ratman_tf]

I'd love some comparison shots between D1-D3 and wow. I even like wow but the last thing i thought when i was watching that footage was wow. I think people are....what's that word....stupid?

Between Diablo 1-2 and Diablo 3 screens, the colors are more saturated and the textures are reminiscent of some WoW/Warcraft 3 textures. It helps that D3 is almost assuredly running at higher screen resolution than D2, and thus we can actually make out more details.

Considering I like the asthetics of WoW, and D3 (IMO) seems to be about between WoW and D2 art direction-wise, I'm rather happy with the graphics.

[Margalis]

Personally I think the graphics look great, but I can see how they are a bit of a departure for fans of the series. Since the gameplay itself looks to be basically the same a new artstyle is a bit odd in some ways.

Diablo 2 had a dark, gritty, and dare I say generic western look.