How do you fit a Badger Mk II?

[Calantus]

It seems haulers are the only ship where nobody talks about the fittings. What I want is to haul mission loot/salvage from my missioning station to Jita for sale. I'm really only worried about packing it full of crap and not getting suicide ganked on the way. I won't be on autopilot.

[MahrinSkel]

Fill the mids with shield extenders and the lows with nanos and i-stabs.

--Dave

[IainC]

If you'll only be going through Empire you won't have to deal with bubbles so you don't need to worry too much about warp core stabilisers as you'll be warping to zero on the inbound side. Fit a cloak and it will be hard for the bad guys to lock you on the outbound side too.

I'd go with this sort of setup:

Hi-slots:
Cloak
Gun

Midslots:
Medium shield extender
Medium shield extender
Medium shield extender
Invulnerabilty field
EM resistance module
Thermal resistance module

Low slots
Cargo Expander
Cargo Expander
Nanofiber

Rigs (if you must)
Cargohold optimiser
EM Screen
Thermal Screen

What you do is warp to zero and jump through. On the other side you assess the situation and if it appears safe you jump to the next gate as normal, if there are suspicious people around however, you align to the gate, pop your cloaking device as soon as you're moving and then warp when you're aligned and at speed. Chances of a bad guy locking you in time is practically nil.

[Calantus]

Thanks for the suggestions. So the basic idea is mids are for shield tanking, lows are for align time and cargo space, highs for cloak. The mid slot layout that you suggested IainC fits well but I can't perma run it with my skills and I think I'd prefer to be able to just set them on and forget about them than have them idle and having to activate them if attacked. I can't fit more than 3 med shield extender IIs though (by 1.2 PG  ) so the next best cap stable alternative is to replace the invuln with a kinetic hardener. Is there any reason why the nanofiber over an i-stab in the lows? When I plug them into EFT the i-stab lowers align time the most. I think I'd prefer faster align times to cargo space as I'd rather make trips more often than have trips take longer. Also is there any reason for the gun or is it just a space filler?

With the suggestions in mind and my own tinkering I was thinking of this:

HI:
Cloak (which cloak?)

MID:
Medium shield extender II
Medium shield extender II
Medium shield extender II
EM Hardener II
Thermal Hardener II
Kinetic Hardener II

LOW:
Nanofiber II
I-stab II
I-stab II

I will probably start without the cloak for now because I don't have the skills for it yet.

Does that look solid? Any holes in my reasoning?

[Phildo]

If it's for hi sec, you shouldn't ever need to tank for more than 20 seconds so bear that in mind.

[Kamen]

What I want is to haul mission loot/salvage from my missioning station to Jita for sale. I'm really only worried about packing it full of crap and not getting suicide ganked on the way. I won't be on autopilot.

Your not planning on autopiloting makes you far less likely to be a target.  It's more important than any setup you come up with for your indi as MOST suicide victims are afk slow boating to the gate.  Although you can be locked and killed on the other side jump the limited amount of time makes most suicide gankers take the easy approach of scanning inbound afk slow boaters.  Warping to zero is far more important than any high sec fitting you come up with.

I don't know the value of what you are planning on hauling, but unless it's worth a "lot" of money, your mission loot is usually not worth suiciding over.

I've been hauling billions into Jita for 3 years without having been attacked once if that tells you anything.  For really valuable cargo I use my Crane (transport ship) with it's 2 built in warp core stabs.

[Slayerik]

Basically, if you arent afk sneak a damage control in your lows....load up the mids with extenders and maybe an invuln.

The ganks I fail on are usually due to a full rack of med shield ext II's in the mids...or my own fault in some way.





I really dont know why i made the gankin threads as I have probably lost some kills due to it. Oh well, just be samrt and know you are never safe. Your best best are blockade runners, those fuckers are impossible to get a lock on.

[Nerf]

I second the blockade runner, there is really no way to make a t1 indy gankproof, but I'll never even land a scan on a BR.

[Slayerik]

Looking at my last post, I wont even edit out the drunkedness.

[MahrinSkel]

I second the blockade runner, there is really no way to make a t1 indy gankproof, but I'll never even land a scan on a BR.

Thirded.  This is one place Minmatar really shines, the automatic racial bonus to inertia is like having an old-style iStab or two of the new ones.  Tweaked out with rigs, a Prowler can outrun a standard interceptor (mine is nearly as fast into warp as a shuttle, but it is *pimped*, about 250-300M worth of pickup truck).  And you can AFK a Mastodon right into Jita with 3 billion on board (I've done it), because you can build a shield tank that compares well with a BS (native resists on both are equivalent to a HAC).  Even the t1 Minnie Mammoth can be tanked to take a couple of BS broadsides, and the Badger should be at least as good (but slower to go into warp so you might take a third or even a fourth).

If you're routinely running high-value cargo, there's just no other way to go than the BR.  A t1 industrial just doesn't have the native stats or the grid/CPU to stand up to a ganker, and it can't reach warp fast enough to avoid taking a few broadsides.  For a one-time thing where you're going to be micro-managing every second you'll be fine (especially if you go in the wee small hours right before or after DT).

--Dave

[Nerf]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, as it might lose me some money, but i-stabs don't help, at all.

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

This is why freighters will warp sideways, the turning animation is just that, an animation.

[IainC]

Thanks for the suggestions. So the basic idea is mids are for shield tanking, lows are for align time and cargo space, highs for cloak. The mid slot layout that you suggested IainC fits well but I can't perma run it with my skills and I think I'd prefer to be able to just set them on and forget about them than have them idle and having to activate them if attacked.

HI:
Cloak (which cloak?)

MID:
Medium shield extender II
Medium shield extender II
Medium shield extender II
EM Hardener II
Thermal Hardener II
Kinetic Hardener II

LOW:
Nanofiber II
I-stab II
I-stab II

I will probably start without the cloak for now because I don't have the skills for it yet.

Does that look solid? Any holes in my reasoning?

You don't need to/can't run the tank permanently anyhow. Remember that every time you jump all your active modules deactivate so you'd have to turn it all on as soon as you break cloak on the other side anyway. As you don't plan on being there very long having a tank that only lasts a minute or two isn't an issue. Your tank is only there to keep you alive for as long as it takes Concord to pop your attacker.

You won't be able to fit a covops cloak to an Indy so fit either of the others depending on your skills. The difference between them is the cost and the speed nerf while cloaked, 90% for a t1 cloak and 75% for a t2 version. As speed isn't important to you, you may as well go with the T1 option.

I'd also put cargo expanders in the lows, otherwise why use an indy? you could get almost as good a cargo capacity from a passively tanked Raven with a rack of Cargo Expander IIs in the lowslots.

[Endie]

Came expecting battle badger thread, left disappointed. 

The badger is a great ship, just not so much for hauling cargo.  You can fit it out with a stuff tank and a gun and roamin comedy gangs with it.

GF's Dwaggy solo pvps with his:

Highs: 1x Named light neutron blaster, 1 Small energy neutralizer
Meds: 1x Warp scrambler, 1x web, 2x ECM Multispectrals, 2x Small capacitor boosters with 150's
Lows: 2x Small armor reps, 1x EANM

He slowboats up to miners in highsec, steals their ore then kills them when they aggress.  Apparently, droneboats are to be avoided, but barges, mining cruisers and destroyers etc are fine.  Video is here, but I can't see it since I am behind a firewall here.

A more sensible use for the badger II is to take advantage of its weirdly massive CPU.  You can, for instance, sit one in a gatecamp with remote sensor boosters and make inties literally instalock.  This was my plan for the next time we took cloaking ships to Curse: a badger can fit a cloak easily, and my idea was to combine that with a bunch of remote sensor boosters so as to catch the cloaking mission runners and travellers in the area.

[ajax34i]

For hauling, I'd go:

High:  cloak (none if you can't fit a cloak, and it's the prototype cloak, only thing that fits on regular ships)

Meds: 
3 named Medium shield extenders
EM Hardener I
Thermal Hardener I
Invulnerability Field I

Lows:
all Expanded Cargohold II

With this you should be able to put in 4 Giant Secure cans for an extra 25% haul capacity.  Should be able to move 16600 m3 or so.

I don't go for T2 modules (other than the cheap cargo holds) or rigs because an industrial will pop in one shot if they decide to attack you.  I also don't carry more than 30 Mil or so, ever.

[Kamen]

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

I've heard a lot of debate about this, and with some extra time this morning I tested it with my Bustard.  Having jumped through a gate and remaining cloaked I started a timer after selecting "warp to zero" and stopped it when warping starts.  I tried to be as consistent as possible, and retested each at least five times.   I wanted to do a test with five empty low slots but I had to run to work.

5 Cargo Expander II - 21 seconds
5 Nanofiber Internal Structure II - 15 seconds
5 Internal Stabilizer II - 13 seconds

[Nerf]

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

I've heard a lot of debate about this, and with some extra time this morning I tested it with my Bustard.  Having jumped through a gate and remaining cloaked I started a timer after selecting "warp to zero" and stopped it when warping starts.  I tried to be as consistent as possible, and retested each at least five times.   I wanted to do a test with five empty low slots but I had to run to work.

5 Cargo Expander II - 21 seconds
5 Nanofiber Internal Structure II - 15 seconds
5 Internal Stabilizer II - 13 seconds

Interesting, contrary to everything I've read about it but I suppose it's possible they changed it.
In that case, I retract my previous statement and reccomend a mix of istabs and nanos.

[Jayce]

He slowboats up to miners in highsec, steals their ore then kills them when they aggress.  Apparently, droneboats are to be avoided, but barges, mining cruisers and destroyers etc are fine.  Video is here, but I can't see it since I am behind a firewall here.

This guy is my new hero.

[MahrinSkel]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, as it might lose me some money, but i-stabs don't help, at all.

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

This is why freighters will warp sideways, the turning animation is just that, an animation.

Actually, you're wrong.  New i-stabs don't help as much as the old ones, but they do in fact increase your acceleration rate and cause you to reach warp faster.  Nano's do as well, not quite as much but they also increase your MWD multiplier (this is why polycarbs are better than the MWD-boosting rigs, you get MWD speed bonuses as well as faster acceleration).  Minmatar racial ship bonuses act like an old-style i-stab, reducing both weight and inertia (which is why the Fenrir is the best 0.0 freighter, reaching warp in about half the time).

If you want to test this, pick a slow warping ship with at least 3 lows and time your warps with them empty, filled with high-end named or t2 i-stabs, and with nanos.

--Dave

EDIT: Should have read further, Kamen actually did the test.  With T2 polycarbs (expensive as hell) I got my Prowler down to a <2 second time to warp.  Even if they're sitting there with blinking guns and a rack of sensor boosters, odds are I'm gone by the time they get a lock.

[JoeTF]

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

I've heard a lot of debate about this, and with some extra time this morning I tested it with my Bustard.  Having jumped through a gate and remaining cloaked I started a timer after selecting "warp to zero" and stopped it when warping starts.  I tried to be as consistent as possible, and retested each at least five times.   I wanted to do a test with five empty low slots but I had to run to work.

5 Cargo Expander II - 21 seconds
5 Nanofiber Internal Structure II - 15 seconds
5 Internal Stabilizer II - 13 seconds

Interesting, contrary to everything I've read about it but I suppose it's possible they changed it.
In that case, I retract my previous statement and reccomend a mix of istabs and nanos.

Huh?!
Agility defines how fast do you accelerate. Agility in EVE is mass*inertia multiplier. I-stabs are -20% inertia, nanos are -12.5% to mass. Where was the surprise?

Edit:
Mahrin: No matter how I check, EFT says you cannot go under 2.3 sec on Prowler. Do you use implants?

Edit2:
Oh, with full Nomand set it goes down to 1.7 sec. Still, at least on paper 3 warp disruptor Stiletto is able to lock you in 0.4 sec. Well, at least on paper, something tells me that results on TQ/sisi might be different (fucking CCP's lazy coding).

[Slayerik]

I'm probably going to regret saying this, as it might lose me some money, but i-stabs don't help, at all.

When you jump into a new system, your alignment position is null, so as soon as you point somewhere, that value replaces the null.

If you're using WTZ from cloak, i-stabs do fuckall to make you warp faster, nanofibers will help immensely, since the only thing you're waiting on is to get up to speed.

This is why freighters will warp sideways, the turning animation is just that, an animation.

Actually, you're wrong.  New i-stabs don't help as much as the old ones, but they do in fact increase your acceleration rate and cause you to reach warp faster.  Nano's do as well, not quite as much but they also increase your MWD multiplier (this is why polycarbs are better than the MWD-boosting rigs, you get MWD speed bonuses as well as faster acceleration).  Minmatar racial ship bonuses act like an old-style i-stab, reducing both weight and inertia (which is why the Fenrir is the best 0.0 freighter, reaching warp in about half the time).

If you want to test this, pick a slow warping ship with at least 3 lows and time your warps with them empty, filled with high-end named or t2 i-stabs, and with nanos.

--Dave

EDIT: Should have read further, Kamen actually did the test.  With T2 polycarbs (expensive as hell) I got my Prowler down to a <2 second time to warp.  Even if they're sitting there with blinking guns and a rack of sensor boosters, odds are I'm gone by the time they get a lock.

Blockade runners own my suicide ganking face.

[Nerf]

I was talking about warping from cloak after a jump, although if agility increases acceleration as well as turning speed then I may still be correct about the whole turning = only an animation after loading in.

And anything under 5 seconds or so means that we aren't touching you, suicide ganking doesn't just require locking, but the scan time as well, which is about 5 seconds.

I've never gotten a scan off on an active BR, even with my dedicated scanning char loaded up with sensor boosters.

[MahrinSkel]

I was talking about warping from cloak after a jump, although if agility increases acceleration as well as turning speed then I may still be correct about the whole turning = only an animation after loading in.

The turning is only an animation, my Fenrir routinely enters warp aimed sideways.  Not sure if Agility/Mass have any effect on animation speed or not.  But they certainly affect time to warp, which is a good stand-in for everything related to vector changes.

The down side is that you also slow down faster, which can be an issue when you're gunning for the edge of a bubble and they get webs on you.

--Dave

[Nerf]

I think they affect animation to a certain point, but I'm still not sure if what I read about zoning in with a null vector is true.  If agility affects accel, then it might be, that would explain why the web instawarp trick works on freighters.

The test would be to uncloak and move a wee bit, and then try it to see if it still instawarps or takes time to turn.

[bhodi]

When you are stopped, you will get up to speed equally fast in any direction.

The ship animation does not reflect what's actually going on; it takes no additional time for your ship to 'flip around' and go the other direction than it would to continue in whatever direction your ship is facing. If you go into warp while still performing the 'turn animation', you'll go into warp sideways.

[Hoax]

This seems like a good place to ask, does it matter when you activate a MWD or are you better off activating it once you are already nearing your unboosted max speed?  I feel like the latter is better on a instinctual level, but I might as well know the truth.

[IainC]

This seems like a good place to ask, does it matter when you activate a MWD or are you better off activating it once you are already nearing your unboosted max speed?  I feel like the latter is better on a instinctual level, but I might as well know the truth.

Do you mean in relation to warping or just generally?
If you mean in relation to warping then you don't want to hit your MWD at all. You warp at 75% of your speed. MWD increases your max speed and thus raises the warp threshold.

If you mean in general then I don't believe it makes a measurable difference.