Council of Stellar Management Voting Active

[bhodi]

You've always had an irrational hatred for GS, I don't hold it against you :)

I've been updating the war thread pretty regularly, though... or maybe you mean non-GF updates?

[Reg]

I'm thrilled that Jade's visit has made it suddenly OK to spout homophobic bile.  And to think I'd been holding myself back all of this time.

[TheWalrus]

Dont be such a queen.

[Calantus]

Being gay would have given him some normalcy.

[sanctuary]

I don't regret my 2 votes for Goumingdong at all now. CCP

[Quinton]

Yeah, I wound up back where I started, the CSM is going to be a clusterfuck of truly monumental proportions.  Unless CCP realizes what a mess they've made, and has the courage to take the PR hit for simply ignoring them and disbanding it after this cycle.

Only if they can somehow work this in:

"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently."

[eldaec]

6. Pissing match about Jade signing minutes of meeting prior to sending to CCP, followed by persistent protest by Darius that the Chair is equal to the rest of the council and should not have exclusive document signing rights

Admittedly, it's only the first, but still.

Reading the log, it was never entirely clear why CCP would want to recieve minutes.

[lac]

CCP just has to keep it going. As long as they can keep some people interested, it's real and marketable.

[ajax34i]

Several issues are now marked with "CSM have voted to take this to CCP" in this sticky they have.  I did not see any mention of a second meeting, logs or anything like that, perhaps I missed it.  Or perhaps they're not posting logs, ever again.

EDIT:  Oops sorry my bad.  The second meeting's chat log is here.

EDIT2:  Summary:  they picked the 10 most popular issues on the forums and voted on whether or not to send them over to CCP.  That's what's marked in the sticky above..   Sometimes they express their own opinions on the various issues, before they vote on them, if you want to read through all that.

Heh, Amarr:

Inanna Zuni > given that some people just can't be bothered to answer an existing thread , and start a new one, it is probably not unreasonable for whichever of us is promoting a particular proposal to merge them together

[Amarr HM]

Heh, Amarr:

Inanna Zuni > given that some people just can't be bothered to answer an existing thread , and start a new one, it is probably not unreasonable for whichever of us is promoting a particular proposal to merge them together

 

What's this all about?

[Endie]

Those who read through Jade's self-serving diatribes about how 0.0 was static and risk-free will no doubt suffer cognitive dissonance at the fact that 18 outposts changed hands - all due to violence - in the last 12 days.

[Phildo]

Those who read through Jade's self-serving diatribes about how 0.0 was static and risk-free will no doubt suffer cognitive dissonance at the fact that 18 outposts changed hands - all due to violence - in the last 12 days.

More information, please.

[MahrinSkel]

Those who read through Jade's self-serving diatribes about how 0.0 was static and risk-free will no doubt suffer cognitive dissonance at the fact that 18 outposts changed hands - all due to violence - in the last 12 days.

More information, please.

Unfortunately you can't link to Outpost Alert pages until they're a month old, but here's a cut and paste from the email:

   2:0 Malice. picked up a refinery and a factory outpost in Fade with the collapse of Triumvirate. Triumvirate left 50 systems and 13 outposts behind. ESM 26

   
   [<IRON> Imperial Republic Of the North]    [<TRI> Triumvirate.]    2:0
   Imperial Republic Of the North added two more Triumvirate. outposts in Deklein to their collection, bringing IRON to a  total of 6 outposts in Deklein and 8th ranking. ESM 15

   
   [<KW> Kraftwerk.]    [<(None)> (Corps not in Alliance)]    2:0
   Kraftwerk. managed the mischief of [troublemakers], recapturing 2 outposts in Scalding Pass, as Troublemakers split away from Kraftwerk. to form <Sternhagel>. ESM 58

   
   [<.-A-.> Against ALL Authorities]    [<IAC> Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate]    1:0
   Against ALL Authorities captured the Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate Factory in Catch//V2-VC2, the first time .-A-. has owned the station in 22 months. ESM 10[G7]

   
   [<BOB> Band of Brothers]    [<BRUCE> Brutally Clever Empire]    1:0
   Band of Brothers outsmarted Brutally Clever Empire in Fountain, recapturing Fountain//Y-2ANO after 10 weeks at the hands of BRUCE. ESM 29[H2]

   
   [<BOB> Band of Brothers]    [<MC> Mercenary Coalition]    1:0
   Band of Brothers wrath against Mercenary Coalition played out in full, as BOB took MC's last outpost in Period Basis. BOB hold 1st place in the rankings. ESM 52 [C9]

   
   [<IRC> Intrepid Crossing]    [<FIX> Firmus Ixion]    1:0
   Intrepid Crossing rocked the boat at Firmus Ixion's new haven in Oasa, taking the GK3-RX refinery outpost and leaving FIX with an Administrative Outpost. ESM 47[D9]

   
   [<ME> Majesta Empire]    [<-RZR-> RAZOR Alliance]    1:0
   Majesta Empire blunted RAZOR Alliance's hold on Branch, capturing the Branch//K-8SQS conquerable factory.
ESM 08[D3]

   
   [<PURE> Pure.]    [<DSTNY> DeStInY.]    1:0
   Pure. sealed the fate of DeStInY., taking their last outpost in Deklein, for a total of 3 in a few short weeks. As DeStInY. collapses, Pure. rise to 5th place in the rankings.

   
   [<RED> Red Alliance]    [<ATF> Atrum Tempestas Foedus]    1:0
   Red Alliance captured the eastern Admin Outpost in Pure Blind//P-2TTL from Atrum Tempestas Foedus. ESM 56[D3]

   
   [<RED> Red Alliance]    [<TRI> Triumvirate.]    1:0
   Red Alliance captured the western admin Outpost in Pure Blind/EC-P8R from Triumvirate. , RED now have the opportunity to control this key gateway. ESM 56[F8]

   
   [<-RZR-> RAZOR Alliance]    [<PURE> Pure.]    1:0
   RAZOR Alliance slowed Pure. expansion in Branch, capturing the QCWA-Z refinery. ESM 08[D7]

   
   [<SOLID> Solidus Alliance]    [<IAC> Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate]    1:0
   Solidus Alliance toasted success at taking the Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate's conquerable refinery in Catch//5-N2EY . IAC are showing a steady decline. ESM 10[F7]

   
   [<T-VRS> Project Alice.]    [<TRI> Triumvirate.]    1:0
   Project Alice. picked up their first outpost from Triumvirate.. A factory in Fade//L-C3O7. ESM 26[C6]

   
   [<X.I.X> Legion of xXDEATHXx]    [<FIX> Firmus Ixion]    1:0
   Legion of xXDEATHXx conquered a Firmus Ixion refinery in Oasa//BQ0-UU. ESM 47[E8]

This being for 5-19 to 6-1

[TripleDES]

I finally came to the conclusion that CSM must be an ironic in-joke or something, by name and execution. You know, stellar management.

[eldaec]

I enjoyed how the entire first hour of the second meeting was spent complaining about how last time they spent too long on process, bureaucracy, and dick waving.

Irony thy name is Stellar.

[bhodi]

EXCITING times in the world of the council!

There have been two logs since we last saw..

http://www.eve-csm.com/meetings/chatlogs/20080531councilofstellarmanagementlogs.rtf
Not much happened of note here...

Jade Constantine > okay lets focus down to a vote on this issue then chaps
Inanna Zuni > and chapesses!
Jade Constantine > I always mean women too when I say chaps
Inanna Zuni > :: growls ::

[ 2008.05.31 19:24:30 ] Inanna Zuni > (I note Hardon supported this in his temporary absence)
[ 2008.05.31 19:24:39 ] Bane Glorious > hehe
[ 2008.05.31 19:24:43 ] Bane Glorious > you said hard on

HOWEVER, in the latest one...
http://www.eve-csm.com/meetings/chatlogs/20080608councilofstellarmanagementlogs.rtf

FINALLY some drama!
Here's an increasingly entertaining thread about it.

After a power outage, I just got around to finishing my reading of the chatlogs, and I'm pretty ****ed off at the conduct of the meeting. The chair decided to arbitrarily mute a member of the Council who had done nothing wrong "til the vote", and then proceeded to re-mute her twice more without ever actually letting the block off until after the vote had already taken place. And this was on the basis of two "formal warnings" for conduct that is entirely normal in a text-based meeting - the first was for calling a point of order, and the second was for taking marginally longer to type a comment than it took Jade to ask for silence. This is abuse of power of the highest order on the part of the chair, and I'm incredibly disappointed to see it.

Also, on the issue of abstentions, it's a total non-issue, and the fact that a minute was spent on it is wasteful, let alone an hour. Abstention = AFK = absent from meeting, except as regards quorum and replacement by alternates. If "Aye" > "Nay", the motion passes, and if "Nay" <= "Aye", the motion fails. Abstentions have no weight whatsoever - Serenity is appallingly wrong when he says that they be counted as Nays, and Ankh is understandably wrong(but still wrong) when she says that majority-abstain is a failed vote. If eight of you abstain and one Aye vote is cast, the motion is passed. It's the same as what happens if, say, 90% of eligible Eve accounts choose not to cast a CSM ballot - we don't throw out the results, we simply record the votes of those who chose to cast a vote, and go from there.

a few choice quotes:

[2008.06.08 18:06:26 ] Hardin > I completely agreed with the fact that a returning member should not interrupt or interfere in a debate in progress
[ 2008.06.08 18:06:46 ] Hardin > but do feel that when the agenda moves on to the next item on the agenda
[ 2008.06.08 18:06:54 ] Hardin > that the duly elected csm rep
[ 2008.06.08 18:07:02 ] Hardin > can once again participate in the debate
[ 2008.06.08 18:07:16 ] Hardin > That is how my experience or real world meetings works

[ 2008.06.08 21:57:12 ] LaVista Vista > How much time have we wasted discussing nothing?
[ 2008.06.08 21:57:22 ] LaVista Vista > How much of it is TOTALLY pointless?

[lac]

Four hours. That bullshit lasted for four hours..

[ajax34i]

I think the second and third times he was trying to unmute her but either typed the wrong command (mute) or there's no un-mute function.  Likely that there's no un-mute, and the only way to un-mute someone is to mute them again but with a very short expiration timer (one minute?) so that in fact it runs out and the person can type again.  It's a beautiful UI.

I liked the part where it turns out that the meeting minutes haven't been published because CCP hasn't signed off on them, and they tell CCP to "do your job." 

It's a pretty lousy setup for this CSM term.  First CCP forces them to have the live meeting merely weeks after they've been voted, then they schedule the release of their Factional Warfare expansion within the same time-frame, which of course means that they're too damn busy to do any of this CSM stuff. 

IMO, typical CCP behavior; despite being a company with (now) multiple departments, they still cannot do more than one thing at a time, and the "Soon" crap is still happening.

[Endie]

This is the bit that I find most revealing:

I would just like to point out one thing about the 'chat log' posted here.

The chat log came from a member of the Committee who had channel rights, which is why it contains a note about Inanna being muted by Jade.

Unfortunately, the other members of the Committee, who do not have channel rights, did not see that notification and therefore had no idea that Jade had gagged Inanna and Jade didn't inform us.

I only became aware that Inanna had been gagged when she mentioned it to me in a separate convo.

I am deilghted that the "Fuck, Jade is a self-obsessed, self-serving shithead" constituency is growing exponentially.

Edit: "[ 2008.06.08 19:47:50 ] Bane Glorious > i just want to talk about spaceships please"

And people thought that Goons would be the disruptive ones?  By my maths there are now 4 solid and one likely votes of no confidence in the chair.

[ajax34i]

Yeah, there are many many threads about it all over the E-O forums now.

[Simond]

Oh hey, I was right again? 

[Phildo]

Simond, you're prophetic!

[Fordel]

It takes a special kind of douche bag to flat out deny something written, while said something is plain for everyone to see.


"THE SKY IS GREEN FUCKERS, GREEN!"


 

[Endie]

Someone on Goonfleet spotted this thread and posted it in the warroom.  Schild is currently being quoted verbatim and at length, while receiving the maddest of furious props.

We're also getting a running commentary on Jade's shenanigans: he seems to be pretty close to the edge, and having lost votes on his powergrabs (to do with voting procedures and alternates, clearly in an attempt to railroad stuff in the absence of some of the five members now ranged against him) twice in a row, has now scheduled an identical vote for Sunday while appealing directly to CCP to ignore the previous decisions of the council of which he is the chair?!?

Edit: and he forced the council to vote on his pet destructible stations idea, despite it getting a paltry total of well under a hundred approvals, tops, from a playerbase of hundreds of thousands.

[lac]

The ccp guy in charge of that crap will squish him the first good chance he gets, this boat is going nowhere with that mad napoleon at the helm. But doing that while maintaining the 'omg look at the player democracy in our game' message they have been trying to send out will be a delicate job.

[bhodi]

Jade's pretty much just gone off the rails - Darius is giving us updates on his email conversations. He's just a screaming frothing mess at this point; he just found out that the e-mail thread that endie's talking about is being CC'd to the goonfleet boards. Not Jade's words, mind you, as there may be some legal reasons behind it, but Darius's (and Bane's) responses to his crazy walls of text. He's threatening to "take action" due to this "breach of trust".

I'd love to post the email logs, I'm leaving it alone until it cooks a bit more and comes out on eve-o or something, but I will post them here when I can. It's a delicious drama-filled tasty treat!

[Endie]

Yep at the moment it boils down to:

Darius "Well guys, jade is trying x so here is a quote of my reply"

Jade "You cannot share what we are discussing with others, even if you don't share my emails!"

Darius "So you believe that transparency to the electorate is a bad thing?  I move to have the full email thread put in the public domain!  Information wants to be free!"

[Phildo]

 

[Sparky]

Oh man F13 is getting mentioned on Eve-O now.  Prepare for the threadnaught!

[Fordel]

Someone link to the Eve-O thread that links back to F13, to complete the circle or something!

[bhodi]

(it's here) (and here)

Don't worry those who don't have an eve account and can't see it, I'll let it fill up and then post a digest for everyone to laugh at.

[Phildo]

That is unbearably awesome!

[Amarr HM]

 

[Sparky]

I feel insular and super-nerdy just asking this but did this forum see a spike in guest browsing once Jade vs f13-gate hit Eve-O?

[Phildo]

When Jade was still posting there were a LOT of "Guests"