GTA IV

[stray]

Ok, I played about an hour last night to make sure I don't have a freezing issue. I'll be finishing up part 2 of Persona 3 FES before I resume but I wanted to mention a couple of things.

How did this game get such high scores?

The graphics are straight out of the XBOX or PS2 era. The art direction is nice but the rest of it, not current gen at all. I suspect this game started life as a last gen effort and got "upgraded" along the way.

The camera, in and out of the car is total shit. I like to pan my camera around when moving in games. Apparently this one wants to auto-correct back to straight ahead if you're walking or driving. Stop that shit! I got tired of fighting the camera before I even drove Roman home after he picked me up at the docks. Also, why the fuck does it zoom in on my license plate when I accelerate hard from a stop? It's so much fun not being able to see until I manually move the camera back into position. WTF?

So, I'd give the game an 8 or so. It's fun but the camera thing made me stop playing it 30 minutes earlier than I might have otherwise. I took Michelle out on a date and damn Roman called me on the way there. (Glad to hear about the turning sleep mode thing on, I was beginning to worry about the sandbox being gone for micromanaging friends.)

The game has a more cinematic flair than past games, and an attempt at a story but so far...I'm not nearly as impressed as I thought I would be. I'll come back to it after I finish the Answer in FES.

The graphics are more like in-between PS2/X-Box and current games. You might want to check out an X-Box game again.  

Depending on the lighting, it can look pretty good though.

All that being said, this is to be expected. It's just so damn big that there has to be tradeoffs. Same as it ever was for this series.

If you haven't, get into multiplayer mode, and just roam around the city. That should leave you forgetting about polygon count.

[Riggswolfe]

Honestly, the art direction is good enough and cinematic enough I'm not too concerned about poly counts. That part of my review/rant was aimed mostly at the 10/10 scores it has been getting in review sites.

My biggest single grip is about the camera, though I bet I am pushing forward on the stick instinctively and giving myself "license plate cam" as Mr Bloodworth said. I need to keep that in mind when I go back and play it again in a month or so.

[stray]

Yeah, the camera sucks.

One correction: Get into multiplayer mode, get into a helicopter, and then roam around. It's pretty damn impressive.

[bhodi]

A great example of the terrible cam is when you're driving from the pay n spray to brucie's garage. You go down the hill to the hard right u-turn into that warehouse district thing. Coming around that turn you have 0 visibility unless you manually move the camera manually.

[Sauced]

Sorry I missed the invite last night Stray, I was under heavy fire.  I will always jump on some multiplayer unless I'm in a mission I'd rather not do over.

edit: 

[Nija]

A great example of the terrible cam is when you're driving from the pay n spray to brucie's garage. You go down the hill to the hard right u-turn into that warehouse district thing. Coming around that turn you have 0 visibility unless you manually move the camera manually.

Oh no, you have to move the camera on your own. Poor fucking you.

Would you rather have the game attempt to move the camera where it thinks you'd like it to be? Look at any rants about games with fixed cameras, like God of War.

People bitch about the dumbest things these days.

[Riggswolfe]

A great example of the terrible cam is when you're driving from the pay n spray to brucie's garage. You go down the hill to the hard right u-turn into that warehouse district thing. Coming around that turn you have 0 visibility unless you manually move the camera manually.

Yeah, but then it'll auto correct back to straight which just makes the problem worse because I get this maddening pan and scan type of effect since I'm constantly trying to turn the camera to look where I want and the game is constantly trying to turn it back ahead of me.

[Rasix]

Camera hasn't bothered me since I learned the controls.     I just haven't noticed it at all.

[Morfiend]

The on foot camera is the only part that really bothers me. I wish it controlled like a normal TPS game. I know I can hold aim to go in to third person mode, but then he walks really slow, and its very hard to aim with the right stick, be ready to shoot, and hold down A to move faster.

[AcidCat]

The camera also hasn't bothered me one bit.

Watched a great TV show about the history of Liberty City last night.

[Azazel]

I spent 25 of my first 30 minutes in the game watching the TV show with Bas Rutten.

[stray]

Yeah, Rutten is hilarious. Maybe he'll pop up in more shit after this.

[Azazel]

Did you see that Nat Geo doco that had Bas, Tito, Randy and a few others in it? Bas certainly came off as the one with the most personality in that show.

[stray]

Nope, but I'd probably agree. And I hate Tito anyways. A lot. 

[Azazel]

Don't we all? Tito didn't get much talk time though. The main focus was on Bas and Randy, which suited me just fine. Great doco, though. It's one of a series.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/national-geographic-mma-fight-science/1347761355

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Science

And Tito has much more of a central role in the linked ad than in the actual show, FYI.

[stray]

Cool.. Will check it out.


Here's Bas Rutten being the same crazy bastard he is on the Men's Room. Link. Complete with punch sound effects.

[Ozzu]

Camera hasn't bothered me since I learned the controls.     I just haven't noticed it at all.

Same. At first, it bothered me a bit in car chases. Now, as I round corners, I'm correcting the camera with the other stick. You just get used to it and now I'm starting to actually like the way it's handled.

[SnakeCharmer]

Bought it - despite really not liking the franchise.

Initial impression - kinda wonky gameplay (especially targeting), kinda lousy driving mechanics, not really that much to it other than the shock value of it that appeals to its intended audience.  I basically just find myself stealing cars and trying to smash them up as much as I can before they blow, find places to perform stunts, and running from the cops.

Maybe I'm just too old or too white for it.  Or combination of both.

[stray]

Too white?! You did notice that your character is from Russia right? 

Out of all 7 games in the series, only one presented a non-white protagonist... And that was a tongue in cheek homage to 90's LA.

Anyways, play some missions... Rockstar can script some amusing scenarios -- all the while with you plopped into an emergent world. It's a two for one deal, whattya know..

[edit]

I don't know who the intended audience is.. I spent last night playing it with three "white" bowheads. They loved it.

[edit]

And then there's Lum.. I know he gets a kick out of it too. 

Lum, you're white, right?

[photek]

Too white?! You did notice that your character is from Russia right? 

He aint Russian, he is Ex-Yugoslavian (like me, but I live in Norway).

[Falconeer]

Whoever thinks this game is nothing special on the visual/art direction department should mark a manual goal (the green dot/line) on the map from the southeastern corner of the city to the northwestern opposite one, or something. Then get into a cab as a passenger, go 1st person camera and just point your eyes outside the car, watching life and the city go by. Don't move the camera around too much, be a good passenger and just look outside the window, and let the taxi take its time and go all the way from point A to point B.

That is INSANE. And you probably only saw like 1/50 of the city.

[Khaldun]

Niko is Serbian, I think. That's made pretty clear at a couple of points.

I grok the camera complaints, and I'm not entirely a fan of the series as a whole, but I think this one is pretty impressive, all things considered.

[stray]

Pardon me. I was close.. It's Slavic at least. Or we could split hairs and call him Balkan. His ancestors were probably raped by Turks, who knows.

For the most part though, he's white.   


I'm gonna have to do the cab thing.

[Viin]

The only thing I really don't like is how you automatically call when you've completed part of a mission - sometimes I'm in the middle of something (chased by cops!) and being on the phone doesn't work so well. I can't run or get in a car!

[photek]

The only thing I really don't like is how you automatically call when you've completed part of a mission - sometimes I'm in the middle of something (chased by cops!) and being on the phone doesn't work so well. I can't run or get in a car!

This happened to me only once, but you can hang up, or just press down on the analogue pad to speed up conversation. However you lose the cops on some of the missions after you complete it, with the exception of those that say "lose your wanted level"

[AcidCat]

I noticed a "Helicopter Tours" marker on the map and went to go check it out. Flying around Liberty City is really fun, the game even saves your chopper if you can park it on the save spot in front of your safehouse. I had failed that mission twice where you have to follow a target on the train - then I just jumped in the chopper and followed the damn thing by air, so much easier.

Have you guys got to the Playboy X/ Dwayne mission? It took me a while to decide what to do, I was really torn, curious what happens when you make the other choice - though I'm quite pleased with the way things turned out.

[Falconeer]

I did, and I did it twice hoping that you could get a different cops reaction based on your choice. Meh, you still have to do the getaway, no matter what.

Speaking about missions, am I the only one who spent 5 fucking hours and 16,000 $ trying to get out of that hell in Snow Storm? I suck.

[bhodi]

Spoilers ahead. I'm not going to cover them, since we're on page 9 of a thread and the game's been out for a bit now.

Snow storm was really annoying (that's the bank heist right?), and yeah, I had to re-do that mission a ton. I was actually really disappointed at the game designers; In San Andreas, there was a very carefully planned heist with a well thought out plan.

In this game, however, the plan consisted of "You got your gun? I got my gun. Got explosives? Yea I got explosives LET'S DO THIS". I don't think the main character would have ever gone along with something as stupid as an unplanned bank heist, and people who think you can get away with something like that probably wouldn't live very long at all. It was fairly game breaking for me; they had no escape plan at all. "Shoot our way out" doesn't count.

I chose to kill playboy x, not dwayne. You get his apartment to use as a safehouse, and I like it more than the other apartment you get. It's quite nice inside and the TV is perfect for watching. I do wonder who the designers are, I'd really like to live in a place like that, it was very well done.

[Falconeer]

No, Snow Storm is the fucking abandoned hospital, where I thougth I was supposed to run away from in a fucking Tonka Truck. Spent the night on it and 12% of my still good brain cells.

[MisterNoisy]

No, Snow Storm is the fucking abandoned hospital, where I thougth I was supposed to run away from in a fucking Tonka Truck. Spent the night on it and 12% of my still good brain cells.

That mission wasn't too bad, but it pissed me off because it despawned the Turismo I'd parked right outside the door you enter the hospital in during the mid-mission cutscene, leaving me to go running around to that gimpy truck.

[AcidCat]

No, Snow Storm is the fucking abandoned hospital, where I thougth I was supposed to run away from in a fucking Tonka Truck. Spent the night on it and 12% of my still good brain cells.

Heh, I also took off in that slowass truck but managed to get away, did that mission on my first try.

[MuffinMan]

Snow Storm has been giving me problems for entirely different reasons. As soon as I pick up the package and answer the phone, the game hangs and I get a disc read error. So after this happening twice I quickly skipped the cut scene before it tried to load and it let me continue. Outrun the cops the first try, answer the call from Jacob and lo and behold it hangs on a disc read error. I get pissed but reload and go do the next mission from McReary and get another disc read error. The game also hangs when I answer a call from Brucie that keeps trying to come in. Haven't played in a couple days I'm so frustrated.

[SnakeCharmer]

I've been playing it a bit more, running the missions, so I've come back to reread this thread.

Riggs, the sum really is greater than it's parts.

It's ugly, the controls suck, sometimes the AI is just bundles of retarded. But it's masterfully crafted as far as the actual game parts go. The design is dodgy at best. Still, I stand by my original comments that it would get a '9' if I were reviewing it out of 10. What they've achieved is nothing short of fucking really impressive.

If it's ugly (which it is), if the controls suck (which they do), and if the AI is horrible (it is), why in the hell is it considered 'masterfully crafted'?

What's so great about it?

There's tons of fedex missions, tons of retrieval missions, tons of 'kill x/take care of x' missions.  So, yeah, you get 'factional' points with these people - either positive of negative.  Big whoop.  In a game with so much driving, the driving actually fairly well sucks.

Take away the shock value and M rating of the game, and no one would pay attention.

I'm just not seeing what is so spectacular about it that it's getting all these rave reviews, especially when the graphics are subpar for this generation, the controls are horrible, and the AI is weak.  Why do these HUGE points not kill the game like others?  Because of titties?  Because of NPCs and your avatar yelling fuck!  shit!  nigga please!?

[Falconeer]

If it's ugly (which it is)

You should have your head examined.

[CmdrSlack]

I've been playing it a bit more, running the missions, so I've come back to reread this thread.

Riggs, the sum really is greater than it's parts.

It's ugly, the controls suck, sometimes the AI is just bundles of retarded. But it's masterfully crafted as far as the actual game parts go. The design is dodgy at best. Still, I stand by my original comments that it would get a '9' if I were reviewing it out of 10. What they've achieved is nothing short of fucking really impressive.

If it's ugly (which it is), if the controls suck (which they do), and if the AI is horrible (it is), why in the hell is it considered 'masterfully crafted'?

What's so great about it?

There's tons of fedex missions, tons of retrieval missions, tons of 'kill x/take care of x' missions.  So, yeah, you get 'factional' points with these people - either positive of negative.  Big whoop.  In a game with so much driving, the driving actually fairly well sucks.

Take away the shock value and M rating of the game, and no one would pay attention.

I'm just not seeing what is so spectacular about it that it's getting all these rave reviews, especially when the graphics are subpar for this generation, the controls are horrible, and the AI is weak.  Why do these HUGE points not kill the game like others?  Because of titties?  Because of NPCs and your avatar yelling fuck!  shit!  nigga please!?

It's the sandboxy stuff. Hell, I don't even have the game, but for some reason, being able to surf fake websites and watch fake TV, or watch NPCs interact in interesting ways is enough to make me go out and buy a current-gen console at the end of this month. Think about the demographic of many posters here (the older ones, I guess). Many of us want a sandbox to play in, but MMO implementations are always flawed in some way. UO had it's issues, SWG had it's issues, Shadowbane had it's issues (ok maybe not sandboxy, but it had some good ideas that were poorly implemented), etc.

What I've read in this thread and at other places tells me that Rockstar decided to focus on attention to detail as opposed to eye candy. Having not played it, I can't speak to the controls, but past iterations of GTA have always forced me to re-adapt or re-learn the controls. Odds are it's because I don't use my consoles nearly enough. Why? Because my TV has fucked component jacks. If I get a current-gen console and my TV is still acting up (currently, the Xbox works, the PS2 doesn't...), I'll find the cash to replace it. I may stick with SD for cash concerns, but I'll do that to play this game.

Why?  Sandbox. Attention to detail. The missions and stuff are always fun, but window-dressing for me. I haven't finished San Andreas, and I'm either on the last mission in Vice City or I finally finished it. I can't recall.