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Author Topic: Salvage-A-Deck [md5, 8ed leagues]  (Read 5381 times)
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
on: October 21, 2004, 05:06:03 AM

Since I'm a n00b at deckbuilding...

*MD5* #431049
raw .csv [I could repost in a more legible format, but that'd take effort and whatnot]
1,Ęther Vial
1,Annul
1,Arcbound Bruiser
1,Arcbound Fiend
1,Armed Response
1,Assert Authority
2,Auriok Transfixer
1,Barter in Blood
1,Baton of Courage
1,Battered Golem
1,Battlegrowth
1,Blasting Station
1,Blinding Beam
1,Blinkmoth Nexus
1,Brown Ouphe (premium)
1,Chimney Imp
1,Chittering Rats
1,Clock of Omens
1,Cloudpost
1,Cobalt Golem
2,Consume Spirit
1,Copper Myr
2,Crazed Goblin
1,Darksteel Citadel
1,Darksteel Pendant
1,Dawn's Reflection
1,Dead-Iron Sledge
1,Deconstruct
1,Disarm
1,Disruption Aura
2,Dross Scorpion
1,Echoing Calm
1,Echoing Courage
1,Echoing Decay
1,Electrostatic Bolt
1,Elf Replica
1,Empyrial Plate
1,Essence Drain
1,Fill with Fright
1,Fireball
1,Fists of the Anvil
6,Forest
1,Frogmite
1,Goblin Brawler
1,Goblin Dirigible
1,Goblin Replica
1,Goblin Striker
1,Grid Monitor
1,Grimclaw Bats
1,Horned Helm
1,Icy Manipulator
1,Inertia Bubble
1,Iron-Barb Hellion
6,Island
1,Journey of Discovery
1,Krark-Clan Ogre
1,Krark-Clan Stoker
1,Leonin Battlemage
1,Leonin Den-Guard
1,Leonin Squire
1,Lifespark Spellbomb
1,Lose Hope
1,Mephidross Vampire
1,Moriok Scavenger
14,Mountain
1,Myr Adapter
1,Myr Enforcer
1,Myr Moonvessel
1,Myr Retriever
1,Nim Lasher
1,Nim Replica
1,Pewter Golem
14,Plains
1,Power Conduit
1,Rain of Rust
1,Relentless Rats
1,Reshape
1,Rule of Law
1,Rust Elemental
1,Sawtooth Thresher
1,Scale of Chiss-Goria
1,Seat of the Synod
1,Seething Song
1,Skeleton Shard
1,Skyreach Manta
1,Solarion
1,Soul Nova
1,Spark Elemental
1,Sparring Collar
1,Spire Golem
1,Stasis Cocoon
1,Sunbeam Spellbomb
1,Suntouched Myr
9,Swamp
1,Sylvan Scrying
1,Tangle Asp
1,Tangle Golem
1,Tanglebloom
1,Tel-Jilad Chosen
1,Test of Faith
1,Thermal Navigator
1,Thirst for Knowledge
1,Thought Courier
1,Titanium Golem
1,Trinket Mage
1,Triskelion
1,Turn to Dust
1,Unforge
2,Ur-Golem's Eye
1,Vedalken Engineer
3,Vex
1,Vicious Betrayal
1,Viridian Lorebearers
1,Vulshok Berserker
2,Wanderguard Sentry
1,Wizard Replica
1,Wurm's Tooth

Currently I'm using this 'deck':

Lands
1 Nexus
9 Swamp
6 Mountain

Critters [1 of each]
Goblin Striker
Myr Retriever
Grimclaw Bats
Chittering Rats
Goblin Brawler
Goblin Replica
Nim Replica
Moriok Scavenger
Vulshok Berserker
Pewter Golem
Iron-Barb Hellion
Mephidross
Triskelion

Spells, etc [1 of each]
Electrostatic Bolt
Lose Hope
Echoing Decay
Fists of the Anvil
Seething Song [iffy]
Barter in Blood
Fireball

Artifacts [1...]
Aether Vial
Empyrial Plate
Blasting Station
Skeleton Shard

The problem with this deck is that... it sucks and I never survive long enough for the Trike and Mephy to hit the table. I tried making a blue/black affinity deck as well, but everyone seems to have artifact hate up the yin yang. (especially Viridian Shamans, ugh) Any ideas on how to make it workable [or scrap it and make a better one from the ground up]?

*8ED* #431191
1,Anaba Shaman
1,Angel of Mercy
1,Angelic Page
1,Aven Cloudchaser
1,Call of the Wild
1,Canyon Wildcat
1,Catalog
1,Cinder Wall
1,Circle of Protection: Blue
2,Circle of Protection: Green
2,Coastal Hornclaw
1,Concentrate
1,Coral Eel
2,Craw Wurm
1,Dark Banishing
1,Death Pit Offering
1,Deepwood Ghoul
2,Deflection
1,Demystify
1,Distorting Lens
2,Diving Griffin
2,Drudge Skeletons
1,Dusk Imp
1,Dwarven Demolition Team
1,Elfhame Palace
1,Elite Archers
1,Elvish Pioneer
1,Fecundity
1,Fertile Ground
1,Flash Counter
1,Flight
10,Forest
1,Fyndhorn Elder
1,Giant Growth
1,Glory Seeker
1,Goblin Chariot
1,Goblin Raider
1,Holy Day
2,Honor Guard
1,Horned Turtle
2,Index
1,Inspiration
1,Iron Star
7,Island
2,Lesser Gargadon
1,Lightning Elemental
1,Lone Wolf
1,Looming Shade
1,Maggot Carrier
1,Mana Leak
1,Maro
1,Master Decoy
1,Mind Rot
1,Mind Sludge
1,Monstrous Growth
1,Moss Monster
8,Mountain
1,Nantuko Disciple
1,Naturalize
1,Nausea
1,Norwood Ranger
1,Obliterate
1,Orcish Spy
1,Pacifism
1,Plague Beetle
9,Plains
1,Primeval Shambler
1,Raging Goblin
2,Raise Dead
2,Rampant Growth
1,Ravenous Rats
1,Redeem
1,Reflexes
1,Regeneration
1,Remove Soul
2,Rewind
2,Ridgeline Rager
1,Rushwood Dryad
2,Sabretooth Tiger
1,Sacred Nectar
1,Salt Marsh
1,Sanctimony
1,Scathe Zombies
1,Sea Monster
1,Serpent Warrior
1,Shock Troops
1,Sizzle
1,Sneaky Homunculus
1,Soul Feast
1,Spitting Spider
1,Standing Troops
1,Steal Artifact
1,Stone Rain
8,Swamp
1,Twiddle
1,Unholy Strength
1,Venerable Monk
1,Viashino Sandstalker
1,Vicious Hunger
1,Vine Trellis
1,Wind Drake
1,Wooden Sphere
1,Zombify

my current 8ed deck:

Lands
4 Island
6 Plains
7 Mountain

Critters [1x]
Anaba Shaman
Angel of Mercy
Angelic Page
Aven Cloudchaser [bad synergy with the CoP / Pacifism]
Canyon Wildcat
Coral Eel
Diving Griffin
Elite Archers
Lesser Gargadon
Lightning Elemental
Raging Goblin
Sabretooth Tiger
Shock Troops
Sneaky Homunculus
Standing Troops
Viashino Standstalker
Wind Drake

Stuff
CoP: Green
Flight
Distorting Lens
Pacifism
Redeem
Remove Soul

Death Pit Offering was the rare from the last pack and it's seriously tempting me to go black... argh!


'ta,

-- Z.

Scribble
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9


Reply #1 on: October 21, 2004, 07:46:28 AM

I'd cut the following cards:

-Goblin striker (Doesn't do enough. 1/1 creatures need useful abilities to be
playable as a rule.)
-Blasting station (The cost is too steep. If it did two damage, it would be
quite good. Maybe it can make a deck that has plenty of arcbound creatures.)
-Aether vial (This thing is strictly for constructed. Not worth spending a
a card on this effect.)
-Seething song (Same as the above. Limited decks can't exploit the burst of
speed this thing gives often enough.)
-Fists of the anvil (If it just did 4 to the dome of your opponent it would
stilll be pretty bad. If you're playing this card, you're in pretty bad shape.
Do it if your deck is really fast and you are desperate to end the game early.)
-Goblin brawler (This guy is actually quite decent usually, but with this type
of card pool you'll want to go heavier on the swamps and just splash red for
removal/late game cards.)
-Vulshok berserker (Same as the above)
-2 mountain    

Swap for:

-Copper myr (Your deck needs mana acceleration pretty badly.)
-Icy manipulator (One of the best cards in the block.)
-Wizard Replica (Solid artifact creature, especially good in your deck as
you have the skeleton shard.)
-Arcbound bruiser (Same as the above.)
-Fill with fright (This thing is pretty solid, especially with the removal
laden decks that you see in later league games. Pull the bombs from their hand
in the late game, or use it to smooth your draw mid-game.)
-Consume spirit x 2 (Always a solid card to be playing when you have at least 9
swamps.)
-2 Swamps (Power up your consume spirits and get more consistant mana draws.)


Your white cards look pretty good as well, and blue has potential. I'm sure you
could get a decent five-colour deck going here, with the myr, engineer, dawn's
reflection and journey to fix your mana, but the heavy black deck just looks
more consistant. Overall I think the deck looks good. At least I'd be very
happy with it if I'd drafted it, but there are probably a lot of powerful decks
going around as the league progresses.
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #2 on: October 21, 2004, 08:33:12 AM

Thanks, I'll probably go with almost-monoblack [the pumpability of Ze Bats helps too] after the server goes back up.

As for nasty decks: in my experience, almost all of the ones I fought are, but that's probably due to the players with the best decks playing way too much. I've seen Platinum Angel [urrrrgh], Skullclamp + Skeleton Shard + Arcbound Worker / Stinger [double urrrgh], Arcbound Ravager, Pentavus... oh yeah, and most of my opponents have at least one Viridian Shaman in hand ready to pounce right after I play the Shard.

.. or maybe I just suck. :P


Edit: Currently I'm 1 loss - 1 win with the deck you suggested, but that 1 loss was due to the enemy having a molder slug of doom along with a ton of weenies. [barter in blood didn't work and consuming the 6 toughness was kinda impossible] Also posted the 8th ed deck in the first post... if you can help me out with it, you will not be eaten first.


ta'!

-- Z.
token mtgo noob

Raging Turtle
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1885


Reply #3 on: October 21, 2004, 06:35:34 PM

Mmm, sealed.  Now, be warned I haven't drafted or played sealed in a month or two, but this should be fun anyway.

8th
First - make a list of your playables in each color (which would be a lot easier if you seperated them by color for us :)  )

White - Angel of Mercy (Great), Angelic Page, Aven Cloudchaser, Diving Griffin, Glory Seeker, Master Decoy!, redeem, standing troops, venerable monk (sometimes), Pacifism!
Blue - Coastal Hornclaw!, concentrate, Coral eel (bleh), Horned turtle (if you want to stall), inspirtation, remove soul (sometimes), Wind Drake, Mana Leak,
Green - Craw Wurm, Elite Archers, Fertile Ground, Giant Growth + Lone Wolf, moss monster, Nantuko Disciple!, naturalize (maybe), rampant growth, rushwood dryad (everyone plays green in 8th), spitting spider, Vine Trellis,  
Red - Anaba Shaman, Canyon Wildcat (sometimes), Goblin Chariot, Lesser Gargadon (I'd only play 1), Ligthning elemental, obliterate (if your opponent has otherwise game breaking bombs), Shock troops!, V. Sandstalker,
Black - Dark Banishing, Death Pit offering - (better if your creatures aren't great), deepwood ghoul, Drudge are ok filler, Dusk Imp, Looming shade (if you're monoblack or close to it, not likely), Maggot carrier - Remember to put this in if your opponent plays worship, primeevil shambler, serpent warrior (usually worth the life loss), soul feast, Unholy strength (sometimes), Zombify (if you have a few great creatures), Raise dead (see zombify)
Artifact - DISTORTING LENS (huge with your Circles of Pro, which are otherwise sideboard only) - Also can be used to kill black creatures with dark banishment, or protect your own from black removal or CoP

Thoughts - Black has a few nice cards, but not enough to play as a main color.  Same with Red.  Blue, except for the hornclaws and wind drake, is just bad.  
Green is fanstastic - mana acceleration and fixing to get out your big fellas faster, several large creatures to beat down with, and needed utility like Nantuko Disciple and giant growth.  Solid all around.  
White is also great.  Nice selection of fliers, pacifism and Master Decoy for pseudo-removal, and cards like glory seeker and standing troops for the early game.  With distorting lens, you can play CoP:G maindeck, which will work well even without the lens since so many people play green.
But white and green together lack the ability to permanentl deal with a game breaking bomb, so I'd splash black for dark banishment (easy with two rampant growths and/or fertile ground.

Here's what I'd play:  
White -
Angel of Mercy
Master Decoy
Pacifism
Diving Griffin
Aven Cloudchaser (fine to cast without an enchanment to kill)
Glory Seeker
Standing Troops
Redeem
Venerable Monk
Circle of Pro: Green

Green:
Nantuko Disciple
Giant Growth
Craw Wurm
Moss Monster
Spitting Spider
Vine Trellis
2x Rampant Growth (maybe just 1)
Rushwood Dryad
Lone Wolf
Elite Archers

Black:
Dark Banishment

Artifact - Distorting Lens

8 Forests
7 Plains
2 Swamp

I think that's 40.  Never play more than 40, ever.  If you want to make it a little faster, you could cut something and add angelic page in instead.
Raging Turtle
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1885


Reply #4 on: October 21, 2004, 07:36:07 PM

Mirrodin - I haven't memorized all the cards in 5D, so some of these may be a little sketchy.  

Playables:

White -  Aur. Transfixer (only play 1), Blinding Beam(one of the best cards for limited), Leonin battlemage (fantastic), Den-guard and Squire (situational), TEST OF FAITH,

Blue - Annul (usually), Cobalt Golem (filler), inertia bubble (if desperate), Spire Golem (good), Thirst for Knowledge, Thought Courier (Very good), Trinket Mage (if you have something to get), Veld. Engineer.  

Green - Brown Ouphe, Copper Myr, Deconstruct, Echoing Courage, Elf replica (if desperate), journey of discovery, Tangle Asp, Tangle Golem, Tel-J chosen,

Red - E. Bolt, FIREBALL (ALWAYS PLAY), Gob Brawler, Gob Replica, I. Hellion, Rain of Rust (sometimes necessary), Vul. Berserker (a personal favorite)

Black - Barter in Blood, chittering rats, Consume Spirit, Echo Decay, Grimclaw Bats (great), Lose Hope (eh, ok) MEPHIDROSS, Moriok Scavenger, Nim Replica (sometimes), Pewter Golem (slooow but good)

Artifact - Arc. Bruiser (ok but slow), Arc Fiend (usually too slow), Baton of Courage (if your playing 5 colors), Battered Golem, Blasting Station (rarely), Blinkmoth Nexus (if this is the land, its kinda playable), EMPYRIAL PLATE (bomb in the early game), Grid Moniter (he's playable, but only if you know what you're doing), ICY (play!), Myr Enforcer, Myr Retriever (sometimes), Rust Elemental (only with a LOT of artifacts, or nuisance engine), SKELETON SHARD, SkyReach Manta (5 color), Suntouched Myr (not as bad as it looks), TRISKELON, Wizard Replica (Good even with no blue), Goblin Dirgible (slooow and mana-intensive but ok if you need it)

I agree that Black must be played.  Its strong enough for a primary color, and the consume strengths encourage this more.  The question is, which color to splash, if any?
White looks good - Blinding Beam and Test of Faith, Leonin Battlemage if it doesn't have double white in the casting cost (I forget)
Blue has Thought Courier, thirst for knowledge, and trinket mage, but I dont think that it compares to white.
Green kinda sucks
Red is interesting, with fireball (!!) and e-bolt, and if you feel like it, the berserker or hellion (probably a bad idea to add them in)

So let's make the black base:
2x Consume Spirits (Removal/win condition)
Grimclaw Bats
Chittering Rats
Barter in Blood
Echoing Decay
Mephidross
Moriok Scavenger
Nim Replica - Maybe cut?
Pewter Golem
Lose Hope - Maybe
Fill with Fright - Maybe.  A creature would be better

That looks good, but slow as hell.  You'll get rolled over by a fast deck.
So I'm leaning towards splashing red for removal, specifically fireball and e-bolt.  E bolt is a great card, and fireball is one of the best win conditions in MD5.  Unless you HAVE to use it, its best to save it for a shot to the head.  So add:

E-bolt
Fireball
Also, Goblin Replica is decent and might as well be played if you're going red.

Now we've got decent win conditions, but we need a way to survive to use them.  
Artifacts -
Skeleton Shard - Don't play this from your hand unless you can use it on the same turn.
Triskelon - you DO realize this says 'You win the game' if you get him in play with Mephidross, as you can kill any creature on the other side?
Icy Manip - oh yes
Myr Retriever - Useful with Trike and its an early creature
Copper Myr - you need the body and the mana.  Nuff said.
Battered Golem - Even if he has to hang back on defense because you can't reliably untap him, he's good enough.
Empyrial Plate - I'm actually not sure about this card in this deck.  Not a lot of early game creatures to put it on
Wizard Replica - very much needed

This is what I'd play -
2x Consume Spirits (Removal/win condition)
Grimclaw Bats
Chittering Rats
Barter in Blood
Echoing Decay
Mephidross
Moriok Scavenger
Nim Replica - Maybe cut?
Pewter Golem
Lose Hope - Maybe
Fill with Fright - Maybe.  A creature would be better
E-Bolt
Fireball
Goblin Replica -


*Arcbound Bruiser, just because you need another creature
Skeleton Shard -
Triskelon -
Myr Retriever -
Copper Myr -
Battered Golem -
Empyrial Plate
Wizard Replica

1x Nexus
12 Swamps
4 Mountains
You might want to drop the nexus for another mountain, I'm not sure.  
This is pretty similar to the other build posted.  Both would work.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #5 on: October 21, 2004, 11:11:03 PM

I basically agree with the decks above. However in coming weeks I would take a hard look at white if it improves. Test of Faith and Blinding Beam are both incredible cards.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #6 on: October 21, 2004, 11:15:57 PM

Test of Faith won me about half of my games in my current leagues. Of course, since i got my new job I haven't played a single game. I think I'm 13 behind with 4 days left in one of the leagues. Sigh. Oh well, Kamigawa comes out Monday. Wewt.
Scribble
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9


Reply #7 on: October 22, 2004, 03:09:56 AM

With this card pool, it seems pretty safe to eliminate red and blue from your
consideration from the start. Blue has some dorks, counters and card-drawing,
red just has dorks. No removal or bombs that even merit a splash.

The green has great mana fixers, so the obvious strategy here is to make a
deck that is a base green deck using the best cards from white and black. The
best white cards (decoy, angel, pacifism and elite archers) are splashable, so
to me it makes sense to play black more heavily. The only good white cards you
lose here are the diving griffins, and it seems to me that being able to play
primeval shambler, death pit offering and vicious hunger more than makes up for
that. Offering is usually not that hot, but when you have the double rampant
growth and fertile ground to give you a good chance of dropping it on turn
three without creatures in play, I think you need to go for it. Especially
with a relatively weak card pool like this, you have to take some chances to be
able to win. That said, the distorting lens + circle of protection combo does
not seem worth it to me. Even when you get this going, you're just preventing
damage from one creature a turn. With a paladin it'd be a different story, but
those weren't reprinted in 8th unfortunately. You will be sorry you drew the
lens most of the time.

I'd build it like this I think:

Green base:

1 Vine Trellis
1 Rushwood Dryad
1 Nantuko Disciple
1 Moss Monster
1 Spitting Spider
2 Craw Wurm
2 Rampant Growth
1 Fertile Ground
1 Lone Wolf
1 Giant Growth

White:

1 Master Decoy
1 Angel of Mercy
1 Elite Archers
1 Pacifism

Black:

1 Vicious Hunger
1 Death Pit Offering
1 Primeval Shambler
1 Dusk Imp
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Serpent Warrior
1 Dark Banishing
1 Mind Rot

Lands:
7 Forest
7 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Elfhame palace
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3269


WWW
Reply #8 on: October 22, 2004, 07:42:56 AM

Went 3-2 with the MD5 deck [not once did the Trike / Mephy dynamic duo see play though /sigh] and only 1-4 with the 8ed deck. My experiences:
- Molder Slug is pain. The two losses up there are both vs. Sluggers.
- Insufficient removal [in 8ed] in my card pool hurt me a *ton*. The only times I was able to get the upper hand were when I brought out the Pits early, but that wasn't consistent enough to win matches. (I brought it out 3 times, 2 of those matches ended up 1-2, the third one was 2-1) It didn't help that two of my opponents had 4+ [!] direct-damage spells [Hammer of Bogardan is owtastic] and another had 2 Pacifism, 2 Dark Banishing and Sever Soul. I sided in the lens for that one, didn't get to draw it though, heh.
- Playing spells AFTER the combat phase = good, holding a land and bluffing it as an instant (keeping a green mana open) when landflooded = better.
- Topdecking the Hellion won me one game when I was sure I was gonna lose. That 5 damage adds up fast [5 to the dome is almost guaranteed when ya summon it] and the bugger's not easy to remove either.
- Empyrial Plate is uber the first time you use it, Unforge bait after sideboarding.

Here's hoping the Kamigawa leagues next week will go better.. I've been wast^H^H^H^Hinvesting my time at work into reading Scouser's Kamigawa limited article series at starcitygames. They probably aren't of much help to a noob, but 'ey!


ta' for the help,

-- Z.

schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #9 on: October 22, 2004, 07:54:27 AM

Kamigawa will change a lot, it has enough new removal that Raffinity will probably be dethroned at the next pro-tour and subsequent qualifiers.
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