Dieting again.

[Montague]

Eh?

I was starting varsity in soccer for all 4 years. I practiced 4 hours a day. I was in shape and built, until I got hurt.

In other words, I have no aversion to exercise other than it sucks time out of my day and I'm too lazy to be more efficient in order to exercise. Also, I fully know that I can stay in shape. Stray is just making stupid assumptions. Over and Over. Also, he seems to be under the impression that the diet I'm on doesn't work. Which is uhhh, I don't know, a little too goddamn presumptive. And silly. Let's not forget silly.

I have a weight problem, and over the years I've found it best not to discuss what I am or am not doing to lose weight because when I do everyone becomes an MD or fucking nutritionist. As you've no doubt now experienced...

[CmdrSlack]

As far as your diet goes Schild, I'd also weigh in on the side of adding in some exercise. Hell, get that WiiFit shit and use it and then pan it in the PC/Console forum. Go for walks. They're a nice way to clear your head or mull over shit that's going on in your life. Maybe it's the fact that I work for (verrrrryyyy corporate) hippies or something, but I'm really starting to believe that a whole body and mind approach to exercise is a good thing. Plate of shrimp, etc. I wish you the best of luck on grinding to a 30/32 waist. I'm going to aim for 34 (down from the current 36) by my birthday in May.

The nice thing about my current lifestyle is that, aside from a good cardio workout, I get a lot of exercise in at work. I cleared five full skids of wine and one of beer yesterday. This involves getting the cases off the skid, onto a cart, to the spot where they're being displayed, stacking a base, cutting and stacking the display cases, and returning the bigass pine skids to the loading dock.

Fortunately, winter is almost totally over, so all I need to figure out now is whether my bike's back wheel is totally fucked or not. Coming home from a Cubs game late last season, a car ran me off the road while crossing a bridge. There is no noticeable change to the shape of the back wheel, but I can feel and others can see some wobble when I ride. My hope is that it's a $10-$15 fix and not a replace-the-whole-wheel fix. Apparently they can maybe just retune the spokes and fix it? Any bike geeks than can weigh in on that?

Needless to say, even though I get some good activity in at work, I'm thinking about going back to my old schedule of working out with my freeweights here at home. I should also really start stretching and whatnot, which may be a fun thing to do with my daughter to get her used to an active lifestyle.

[stray]

I never said your diet didn't work Schild. Yes, you will lose weight. Just "losing weight" is not what you should be thinking about though. When you deprive yourself of fuels to keep your energy up, then your body just starts feeding on it's own proteins (muscle). Not just fat. You're losing good things, as well as bad things.

The important thing though is that muscle depletion leads to a slower metabolism. Which, in turn, leads you to having an even harder time burning calories. Even a normal calorie intake will be harder to expend (i.e. just by eating normally, you could still get fat... doesn't matter if you stopped overeating). Coupling that with the fatigued state you'll find yourself in, you'll be at an even higher risk than before of gaining weight. You'll have less muscle, less energy, and require even more work to burn calories to maintain a decent weight.

If you have the willpower to work through this dillema, then more power to you. The reason I make an "assumption" that you won't have it in you is because you're already dismissive about the idea of exercise now, when your body is in better shape. If you don't like it now, then you won't like it the future -- because it's going to be harder.

Eh?

I was starting varsity in soccer for all 4 years. I practiced 4 hours a day. I was in shape and built, until I got hurt.

In other words, I have no aversion to exercise other than it sucks time out of my day and I'm too lazy to be more efficient in order to exercise. Also, I fully know that I can stay in shape. Stray is just making stupid assumptions. Over and Over. Also, he seems to be under the impression that the diet I'm on doesn't work. Which is uhhh, I don't know, a little too goddamn presumptive. And silly. Let's not forget silly.

I have a weight problem, and over the years I've found it best not to discuss what I am or am not doing to lose weight because when I do everyone becomes an MD or fucking nutritionist. As you've no doubt now experienced...

Recommending exercise is not being an "MD" or "nutritionist". It's just common sense. Or used to be at least.

[schild]

How many ways can I say "I know this diet isn't good for me?"

You're being a bit of a senseless punk, Stray.

[sinij]

This is great news! I wish you best luck. In support of your efforts I am going to have nice steak with side of refried beans with bacon and cold beer to wash it down.

[lamaros]

You can say it 50 times if you want. The fact is everyone understood you the first time. Stray isn't talking about the diet itself but what you have presented as your philosophy, your goals, and the implications further down the track. If your purpose is to lose wieght and then feel ill, or to lose weight and the put it back on, then it all makes sense. However you seem to be expecting more from this diet that that, so the whole thing doesn't make sense.

Everyone can repeat themselves over and over though. It makes the day go faster.

[schild]

Yes, but I'm not dieting again because it failed the first time. I'm dieting because I wanted to lose _more_ weight.

If you think I'm going to put it back on, just keep it to yourself. No one said "Dieting without Exercising, punk bitches apply here."

[stray]

How many ways can I say "I know this diet isn't good for me?"

You're being a bit of a senseless punk, Stray.

Saying things like you do in the first sentence, and then turning around and calling me the senseless one is why I'm being a punk.  

Don't take all of it as something directed specifically at you though. I may be replying to you, but I'm also trying to discourage others here who think it may be a cool diet for them. It's for anyone to read.

[Der Helm]

So, who is she and what is her family like ?

[DraconianOne]

Exercise is hard for the lazy and terribly boring to people who like games.
...
You know why they don't care? Exercise sucks. And it requires motivation and effort.
...

I get the impression here that you don't like exercise.  Mainly because it sucks.  You're not alone in that (I gather) but help me with this:

It requires about 900x more work than losing all the weight and putting muscle back on.

How are you intending to put muscle back on in a way that doesn't involve exercise or effort? 

[CmdrSlack]

How are you intending to put muscle back on in a way that doesn't involve exercise or effort?

Levelling service.

[Der Helm]

How are you intending to put muscle back on in a way that doesn't involve exercise or effort? 

I think his point is that it is easier (for him) to lose fat AND muscle and rebuilding the lost muscles than to burn fat while keeping muscle mass.

[schild]

How are you intending to put muscle back on in a way that doesn't involve exercise or effort? 

I think his point is that it is easier (for him) to lose fat AND muscle and rebuilding the lost muscles than to burn fat while keeping muscle mass.

Bingo.

Working off fat by working out takes about 8x longer than hardcore dieting and then working out 3-4 days a week. I'd rather lose weight fast and look likea cancer victim while doing it than lose weight slowly and even more slowly put on tiny bits of muscle mass.

Edit: That said, the odds of me ever looking sickly or like a cancer victim is ohhhhhh Zero.

[Moaner]

Working off fat by working out takes about 8x longer than hardcore dieting and then working out 3-4 days a week. I'd rather lose weight fast and look likea cancer victim while doing it than lose weight slowly and even more slowly put on tiny bits of muscle mass.

You are wrong.  That is not the case for most individuals.  I went from a belly and size 38 jeans to a mostly flat stomach and size 32 jeans with a very involved diet/exercise plan in 4 months.  That was 4 years ago and I'm still size a size 32 and still doing cardio 3 times a week.  Getting healthy is a lifestyle change.  If you lose weight fast, chances are you are gong to gain it back fast and then some.  There are shit tons of research studies out there that prove this.  Do a quick search on CINAHL or Medline if you have the means. 

This diet may work for you, and I honestly hope you’re successful, but it's a very strange approach and does not work for most people.

[stray]

I won't say that you'll look like a cancer victim, but depriving yourself of daily nutrients will in fact make your skin tone a bit sickly. Hell, if people don't get some exercise at all, they're going to look a little sickly in the first place.


As for building muscle back up after the diet -- Well, like I said above, it'll be harder then than it is now. It makes zero sense to say otherwise.

[Ookii]

Jesus Christ can't you shut the hell up already.

I would leave talk of the ramifications of such a diet to qualified professionals such as DOCTORS or NUTRITIONISTS.

[stray]

Wait.. So you're willing to just accept a diet plan from your friend Schild... BUT, you don't want to hear any other talk unless it's from a Doctor?

Uh, yeah, OK.

Besides, this isn't so complex as to require professional confirmation here -- it's already been confirmed thousands of times elsewhere. And me, along with the other active people here, are the ones who listened to them. You're better off listening to what we have to say, instead of turning this into a popularity contest.

[schild]

Wait.. So you're willing to just accept a diet plan from your friend Schild... BUT, you don't want to hear any other talk unless it's from a Doctor?

Uh, yeah, OK.

Besides, this isn't so complex as to require professional confirmation here -- it's already been confirmed thousands of times elsewhere. And me, along with the other active people here, are the ones who listened to them. You're better off listening to what we have to say, instead of turning this into a popularity contest.

lol

[Ookii]

Wait.. So you're willing to just accept a diet plan from your friend Schild... BUT, you don't want to hear any other talk unless it's from a Doctor?

Uh, yeah, OK.

Besides, this isn't so complex as to require professional confirmation here -- it's already been confirmed thousands of times elsewhere. And me, along with the other active people here, are the ones who listened to them. You're better off listening to what we have to say, instead of turning this into a popularity contest.

Yes I'm willing to accept the diet, I'll let a qualified professional decide what is wrong with it.  Not an ex-Walmart Manager.

Oh you have thousands of confirmations to back you up?  So do I!  What a coincidence, look I can make up stuff too on the Internet.

The main point you aren't getting is the old saying, "To each their own".  Some people lose weight by being active and it works for them, others lose it by dieting.  It seems as if you'd rather fat people stay fat then do this diet, it's completely asinine.  Stop arguing and be supportive, Schild lost 80 FUCKING POUNDS, stop being so selfish you can only focus misguided beliefs rather than be supportive of someone who made a major lifestyle change for the better.

[stray]

I didn't say you don't lose weight. I know that you lose weight -- it's just that you lose both good and bad weight. Losing fat, along with muscle depletion is not where you want to be. I tried to explain that somewhere above. It's a two steps forward, one step back sort of thing, if you will.

I never said I wanted "fat people to stay fat". Damn, man. I know this can be a touchy subject for people worried about their weight, but some are getting a little too defensive here to read anything like that into what I'm saying. I'd love to see more people get healthy. I am supportive about that -- but I'm going to bring attention to the fact when their methods put them at risk of not achieving their goals. This isn't about my "selfish" concerns. I'd love to see them reach their goals.

I've never worked at Wal-Mart.

[schild]

It's not a touchy subject, you're just being a retarded oppressive assclown about it.

That's pretty much all there is to it. Your OPINION can lick my ass.

[Valmorian]

Stop arguing and be supportive, Schild lost 80 FUCKING POUNDS, stop being so selfish you can only focus misguided beliefs rather than be supportive of someone who made a major lifestyle change for the better.

Um, dropping that kind of weight that rapidly isn't exactly making a lifestyle change for the better.  It's "fad dieting".

[Ookii]

Stop arguing and be supportive, Schild lost 80 FUCKING POUNDS, stop being so selfish you can only focus misguided beliefs rather than be supportive of someone who made a major lifestyle change for the better.

Um, dropping that kind of weight that rapidly isn't exactly making a lifestyle change for the better.  It's "fad dieting".

Yes it's a fad, he never should of lost it in the first place.  Losing weight is so trendy these days.

[Valmorian]

Yes it's a fad, he never should of lost it in the first place.  Losing weight is so trendy these days.

Yes, I CLEARLY said "losing weight" is a fad.   

[Signe]

[Samwise]

Trippy, please add this to the board smileys.  Lives are at stake.

[Raging Turtle]

It's not a touchy subject, you're just being a retarded oppressive assclown about it.

That's pretty much all there is to it. Your OPINION can lick my ass.

Bullshit.  Your "opinion" is that starving yourself is better than eating healthy while moderately lowering your total calorie intake and exercising?  That's hilarious.  Find me one relevant article by someone with a degree to back that up.

Your plan is to lose something like 120 pds in 5-6 months, and you might be able to do it by continuing to slash your caloric intake.  But you're going to be a miserable ass most of the time, feel like shit, and come out the other side with almost zero muscle and possibly some skin flaps.  Sounds like a great six months right there.

If you add some simple cardio and weight lifting, you're going to be able to eat a LOT more (and feel better because of it) and still lose the same amount of weight, be in a vastly better mood because, ya know, that's one of the main benefits of exercise, and most importantly, you'll save yourself ANOTHER 3-6 months of getting in shape (depending on how far you want to go).  Saying you played soccer in high school is meaningless - you were already in shape.  Starting over from scratch is a different world and is going to be a shitload harder than not eating.
     

[schild]

Thanks for the advice!

[Montague]

  <------ Nonbuttered.

[Mrbloodworth]

WTF man, do what works. 

[Signe]

We had hot dogs for lunch.  Filled with juicy unknowiness. 

[Teleku]

So yeah, I've actually been on a diet/exercise plan for exactly 5 weeks now.  Basically been following a plan recommended to me by Nebu (thanks!).  Follows most of what people here suggest.  I eat 6 small meals a day and try to get 2-3 of them to have equal portions of protien/veg/carb, with the rest being a mix of the two (I basically eat 3 real meals, then eat protein bars/shakes for the other 3).

For the exercise, I do weight training 3 times a week (monday/wednesday/friday) alternating upper and lower body each time, then cardio for 3 times a week (tuesday/thursday/saturday).  Sunday is do/eat what ever I want day. 

I must say that I was a person who could never make themselves go to the gym with any consistency, and oddly enough it wasn’t until I started working a full time job for the first time in my life (college life if finally gone L) that I was able to start this.  I just make it apart of my routine.  While at work, I can easily monitor my meal intake through the day, since I don’t have any distractions (like video games to make me forget to eat, or lots of junk food laying around).  Also, I take the bus to work in the mornings, and then make myself walk from work to the gym as soon as I get off work.  Before, I would walk home first, and then go to the gym.  But I found that I usually got home, sat down to relax a bit after a full days work, and suddenly couldn’t find the effort to get my ass back out and up to the gym to work some more.  Now I make it that my only way to home is through the gym, and now I’ve been exercising 6 days for a month and a half with almost no missed sessions.  So yeah, I guess that’s a bit of advice for anybody looking to do this.  Your house is the enemy!

I think its been working ok so far.  I haven't actually been monitoring myself with a scale or anything, and have just been eyeballing it.  I'm starting to notice the fat on my face is going down, which relieves me.  I'm basically in the same boat as Darksign.  I'm overall all tall and skinny, but last few years of low exercise and bad eating have caused a nice layer of fat to form around my gut that really started to piss me off and prompt all this.  Also, I was noticing fat on my face/neck, which also drove me forward (Tri is very right about that).

My only concern is weather I'm doing enough cardio to be burning fat as efficiently as I can.  As was recommended, I basically try to do High Impact Interval Training on a workout bike at the gym (Its alot easier for me to control intervals on a machine than trying to feel it out by jogging/sprinting, heh).  After a 2 minutes warm up at lvl 5, I go 1 minute at lvl 7, then increase it to 9, 11, 13 for each minute after that (making sure to go all out at lvl 13).  After a minute at 13, I drop back to 7 and do the cycle over again.  I do this for 20 minutes straight, and by the end, I usually have sweat flowing down my face and my thighs feel like they are on fire.

However, I keep reading that 20 minutes is the minimum you should be doing for cardio, and read about alot of people going 45 minutes at stuff....  Should I try to tough it out much longer than 20 minutes using the HIIT method (I've tried, and I can only really make it another cycle or two), or switch to a somewhat less straining cardio method that I can go longer with?  The biggest goal to my dieting/exercising is to get rid of as much of this extra flab as I can, and while I also want to build up muscle (of which I have little, heh), using the best fat killing routine is my main concern right now.

I just guess I’m not sure what sort of progress I’m suppose to be seeing by 5 weeks, heh.  I do slip up on the diet sometimes (on weekends sometimes I run out of prepared food and will eat something normal/non-diety around the house, or just go on a beer drinking bing on Sundays).  I allow myself a few vices, like 1 beer every few days.  But I wouldn’t think that would slow me down to badly…

So yeah, any insights/suggestions anybody has would be appreciated.

[Yegolev]

My wife watched the hot dog episode of How It's Made and vowed to never eat one again.

I love hot dogs.

[Miasma]

It's not a touchy subject, you're just being a retarded oppressive assclown about it.

That's pretty much all there is to it. Your OPINION can lick my ass.

Bullshit.  Your "opinion" is that starving yourself is better than eating healthy while moderately lowering your total calorie intake and exercising?

No it's not, I don't understand why so many people are getting confused here.  He's saying that the only way he's going to lose weight is through a severe crash diet, there are no other options that will successfully work.  It's very easy to just say "eat less and exercise more" but it's extraordinarily hard to do and the fact of the matter is that most people will not succeed at it.

This is not a crash diet versus healthy diet and exercise argument, this is a crash diet versus staying overweight argument.  If you have tried everything else and it didn't work but are actually able to pull off a severe diet then it's a no brainer to do the severe diet.  Whatever damage may have been done during the diet is almost instantly going to be balanced by not having the extra 80 pounds and when you add in the positive long term effects of that weight loss then the diet is clearly worth it.

He lost a hell of a lot of weight and he's not dead so whatever he's doing it worked, you can't really argue with that.

[Reg]

Go for it Schild. When I was in my mid-twenties I went on a stupid, unhealthy, fad diet (anyone remember Herbalife?) and lost 60 pounds in three months. I don't regret it for a minute. At that age you can get away with a little of that kind of self-abuse.