Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 02:51:30 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: The robots are coming 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 14 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The robots are coming  (Read 213984 times)
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #280 on: February 24, 2016, 07:10:27 AM

That dude with the hockey stick is going to be first against the wall.

Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #281 on: February 24, 2016, 07:36:20 AM

On the flip side, this along with the pending automation-revolution via intelligent algorithms are REALLY going to fuck citizens hard.

Where economic value is no longer generated by human labor, a system based on rewarding people only based on their labor output will have to be replaced.

Yes, but that runs up against a few very hard questions that WILL fuck people.

1) Replaced by what.
2) What does this do to old skills.
3) What do we do with people who can't or won't learn the new plugins.

3 is the one that people get fucked with. Cant's are: low-intelligence, low old-skill-cap vs. high current skill cap just via natural abililty. (Not all people can learn to code, not all people can masterfully art.)   Wont's are always a problem and my general opinion there is, "fuck those people." Doesn't mean we can just let them starve and die though, right?

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1235


Reply #282 on: February 24, 2016, 07:37:24 AM

That dude with the hockey stick is going to be first against the wall.

And probably pinned there by his stick.

And with boxes neatly stacked around him.

 awesome, for real
Bungee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 897


Reply #283 on: February 24, 2016, 08:22:21 AM

Where economic value is no longer generated by human labor, a system based on rewarding people only based on their labor output will have to be replaced.

Yes, but that runs up against a few very hard questions that WILL fuck people.

1) Replaced by what.
2) What does this do to old skills.
3) What do we do with people who can't or won't learn the new plugins.

3 is the one that people get fucked with. Cant's are: low-intelligence, low old-skill-cap vs. high current skill cap just via natural abililty. (Not all people can learn to code, not all people can masterfully art.)   Wont's are always a problem and my general opinion there is, "fuck those people." Doesn't mean we can just let them starve and die though, right?

Honestly, I don't know what will replace the current systems. What I do wish and hope for though is that it will build the basis for a Star Trek Federation like communism. Basic needs are covered due to fully automatized industries, people don't actually have to work but just whatever they feel like doing. But I guess it won't happen, at least not without some serious shakeups.

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10510

https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png


Reply #284 on: February 24, 2016, 10:21:14 AM

Star Trek communism was built around the idea that we created special matter construction machines that could create almost anything you wanted instantly, so no need for traditional capitalism.

It was Battlestar Galactica, on the other hand, that was built around the idea that a civilization became fat and prosperous by automating all the industries with robots.

Which sci-fi universe is more likely to come to pass?   awesome, for real

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131


Reply #285 on: February 24, 2016, 10:29:48 AM

I'm expecting something like WALL-E.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #286 on: February 24, 2016, 10:48:25 AM

Except wall-e was based on consumerism. Who was profiting and how were the masses paying for it? Especially on the ship itself. The "economy" there makes zero sense for a tale about anti-consumerism.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #287 on: February 25, 2016, 12:21:53 PM

Considering what I know about automating the stationary computers, I'm not terribly worried about an uprising.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10510

https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png


Reply #288 on: February 25, 2016, 12:28:16 PM

I see where you're going with that comment, and my initial reaction is to agree (having dealt with that shit myself).

But then think about how well automating that PC went.  Now imagine people doing that to a Main Battle Tank.

And I'm right back to where I started.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #289 on: February 25, 2016, 06:26:15 PM

 awesome, for real

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3332

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #290 on: February 25, 2016, 10:08:24 PM

Given current battery technology, a humanoid robot uprising is not likely to last more than an hour or else it'll involve robots trailing long extension cords behind or something...
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23611


Reply #291 on: February 25, 2016, 10:25:35 PM

Boston Dynamics built some gas powered versions of their 4 legged models as prototypes for the US military to test as cargo carriers but they were too noisy. Noise isn't as much of an issue though if you are aiming for world domination through overwhelming force.

Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arIJm2lAfR8
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 10:35:19 PM by Trippy »
calapine
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7352

Solely responsible for the thread on "The Condom Wall."


Reply #292 on: February 26, 2016, 08:52:47 AM

Boston Dynamics built some gas powered versions of their 4 legged models as prototypes for the US military to test as cargo carriers but they were too noisy. Noise isn't as much of an issue though if you are aiming for world domination through overwhelming force.

Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arIJm2lAfR8

Ah bah, the original is cuter!

« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 08:57:44 AM by calapine »

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #293 on: March 01, 2016, 07:34:00 AM

I'll start getting worried when computers and robots can repair themselves.  Until then we can just wait it out if there is some sort of attempt.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #294 on: March 04, 2016, 12:27:37 PM


Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
satael
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2431


Reply #295 on: March 09, 2016, 02:29:19 AM

After an extraordinarily close contest, Google’s artificially intelligent Go-playing computer system has beaten Lee Sedol, one of the world’s top players, in the first game of their historic five-game match at Seoul’s Four Seasons hotel.

I might have to actually watch the game at some point (or at least leave the youtube video playing on the background since it's 4 hours long). It's incredible how fast the AI (or rather computer programs in general) has moved from not being a match to an average go-player to beating the best of them.  ACK!
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10857

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #296 on: March 09, 2016, 08:35:39 PM

The very first real program I ever wrote (from scratch, rather than typing in source code and then trying to figure out why it didn't work) was Go on the Apple II. It was a good thing nobody told me how hard it was to make a computer play, or I wouldn't have tried. It wasn't very good (it basically just tried to capture as much as possible for that turn), but it worked.

Once you have a learning AI that 'sort of' gets how to play a game, it's a matter of raw horsepower and training for it to get better. Blondie24 was comparatively primitive, only got a comparatively small amount of training (165 games against humans, because the AI couldn't interface directly with the game the developer had to translate everything from one system to the other by manual entry) and still managed a top 1% rating at Checkers (also a simpler game, but still one that, like Go, is deceptively hard to make a computer do well with).

EDIT: The point I failed to quite get to there is that there is a fundamental difference between this and Deep Blue type AI. When opponents of Deep Blue found weaknesses, Deep Blue would still keep making the same mistakes. Only when the programmers figured out what the mistakes were and why they were occurring would Deep Blue 'learn'. The system that was Deep Blue included the programmers as the 'learning' portion of the artificial intelligence. AlphaGo doesn't need any outside support except electricity, it's a complete system for making a better Go player.

--Dave
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 08:45:14 PM by MahrinSkel »

--Signature Unclear
Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8558

sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #297 on: March 17, 2016, 03:49:42 PM

Alphabet (Google) is selling Boston Dynamics.

Apparently because kicking the shit out of amazing robots is not going to make any money in the foreseeable future.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #298 on: March 17, 2016, 04:09:54 PM

That's rather underselling the story details. The executives of BD appeared reluctant to the very idea of making a robot for profit and stonewalled collaborating with the other robotics companies Alphabet acquired. Combined with the bad press that the idea of human-replacement bots was generating after the last video it almost seems inevitable that they'd dump the company.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
angry.bob
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5442

We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I.


Reply #299 on: March 24, 2016, 05:18:19 PM

Yup, AI. Nothing to be alarmed about. Though really, this is funny as shit if you can find a catalogue of her tweets.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Morat20
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18529


Reply #300 on: March 24, 2016, 07:59:18 PM

Typical behavior from a machine learner. What I can't believe is the utter failure to test that privately -- or filter their inputs.

The only thing I can imagine that would be worse to train a learner on would be Xbox Live chat for a FPS, in terms of PR from the output.
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10857

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #301 on: March 26, 2016, 07:47:29 PM

If we keep letting our AI systems be tortured trained by trolls, we're going to deserve the Robot Uprising.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7199


WWW
Reply #302 on: April 01, 2016, 03:54:48 PM


HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #303 on: April 01, 2016, 06:47:32 PM

No one puts that much effort into a realistic looking woman that can be made to perform actions on command without the intention of fucking it.

Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23611


Reply #304 on: June 17, 2016, 04:09:04 PM

Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #305 on: June 27, 2016, 09:02:10 PM

A Doctoral candidate from my Alma Mater, UC, (no, Cincinnati) has pushed us another step closer to the robot takeover.

This time, an A.I. has beaten an Air Force Colonel with decades of fighter experience.
http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight?src=SOC&dom=tw

So, yeah, Drone, unmanned fighters coming in the next 20 years. After the old men our age who'll keep it from happening retire.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
ajax34i
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2527


Reply #306 on: June 28, 2016, 03:04:43 AM

Ethics and morals have to be programmed in, or learned (in the case of neural networks) just like all the other functions that they're making progress with, but nobody's doing research for that.
Viin
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6159


Reply #307 on: June 28, 2016, 07:57:35 AM

Morality is just a roadblock to greatness.

- Viin
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23611


Reply #308 on: June 28, 2016, 09:47:56 AM

Ethics and morals have to be programmed in, or learned (in the case of neural networks) just like all the other functions that they're making progress with, but nobody's doing research for that.
People are doing research. With combat aircraft the problem can be greatly simplified cause a human can manually engage "attack" mode on a target remotely. With self-driving cars, however, what to do when a variant of the Trolley Problem comes up is a huge issue with no easy answers.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #309 on: June 28, 2016, 10:04:48 AM

I'm of the inaction is immoral stance, because being present means you're involved anyway. In which case Utilitarian morals kick-in. One life for five.

I've never seen the actual trolley problem before, though. It's always been posed as, the self-driving car must crash intentionally, destroying property, or hit a pedestrian, causing grievous injury. Which is the correct choice? Who is at fault?

Humanity sucks at foresight, though, so it's another problem that won't get "resolved" legally until it happens. I wonder what the programmers are deciding.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23611


Reply #310 on: June 28, 2016, 10:16:33 AM

The situation I worry more about is the car can decide the kill the sole occupant or 5 bystanders. Which does it choose?
01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12002

You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #311 on: June 28, 2016, 10:38:43 AM




Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363


Reply #312 on: June 28, 2016, 10:39:28 AM

The situation seems to be so unlikely as to be something that only comes up theoretically.  The sequence of events required is so vanishingly unlikely that this is probably never going to happen:

First, a situation where a crash is inevitable has to occur - this is increasingly unlikely with self-driving cars, since they will be safer and less prone to error than humans, and will continue to become even more so as time goes on.
Then, the situation has to provide only two possible options for responses; real situations tend to have a variety of options - binary situations of the type ethics problems like to bring up are vanishingly rare in the real world.
Then, the results of both possible options must be calculable to a significant degree of certainty, so that you know you'll kill people either way.
Finally, the two options have to be equal in certainty, so you are equally sure that people will die in either situation.

Most likely, the second condition will never be met, even with millions of self-driving cars.  The third condition is even less likely, since a self-driving car is unlikely to be able to analyze whether people will survive or not, especially given that humans are unpredictable and may do things that increase their chances of injury, or do things that get them out of the way even when the car 'thinks' it is certain to kill them.  Finally the fourth condition is so unlikely as to probably be able to go through millions of incidents that meet all three of the previous conditions without ever being met.

So the simple answer is: the cars should probably be programmed to do what they can to avoid everyone, and prioritize the safety of their occupants because those are the most predictable humans in the equasion.  Anyone who isn't their occupant is too unpredictable to successfully calculate with any certainty what will happen to them, and therefore any assumption of that is bad data.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #313 on: June 28, 2016, 12:21:06 PM

The situation I worry more about is the car can decide the kill the sole occupant or 5 bystanders. Which does it choose?


Asimov covered this one already.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #314 on: June 28, 2016, 12:41:15 PM

I think of automated cars being more like trains.  Their job is to stay on the track and obey the signals.  If someone jumps onto the tracks, that's their fault first and foremost.  If the car can stop to avoid hitting them, super.  If not, it's not the car's job to swerve out of the road and endanger people who weren't stupid enough to wander into the street.

As others have said, with its faster reaction times I imagine an automated car is going to do a far better job of avoiding situations like that entirely than a human driver would.  Hand-wringing about what they'll do in the event of an accident is missing the very strong chance that once these things become commonplace, auto accidents are going to be about as common as lightning strikes.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 12:44:09 PM by Samwise »

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 14 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: The robots are coming  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC