M:tG Thread

[cmlancas]

So I can't seem to find a M:tG thread around here. I'm sure some of us prefer to play the physical cards instead of its online counterpart, so here we go.


I wanted to discuss some block/standard issues revolving around some particular builds.


I play black/red rogues and want to talk the merits of Bitterblossom :p


Edit: Title Change

[Velorath]

So I can't seem to find a M:tG thread around here. I'm sure some of us prefer to play the physical cards instead of its online counterpart, so here we go.

We discuss non-digital P&P games in the digital P&P sub-forum.  I don't think anyone would have an issue with discussing M:tg in the M:tg Online forum.

[cmlancas]

Snip-snip then. I at least did a search before I plopped it down in General :P

Still though; talk to me about standard! 

[Johny Cee]

You have a deck list,  or specific cards/strategies you want to take advantage of with Bitterblossum?  You shooting for aggro, control, or a mid-range deck?

The obvious route is in black:  Bad Moon, Oona's Blackguard for pump.  Blackguard also gives you hand disruption with the discard ability.

With red...  using Simian Spirit Guide?  Turn one blackguard is nice.  I've seen mono-black builds of rogues that use SSG to power out turn 1 Frogtosser Banneret or Oona's Blackguard, then drop a load of cards turns 2 and 3 to overpower your opponent and decimate the hand.

Thoughtseize and Mutavault are very nearly "must" includes.  Nameless inversion for taking out chump blockers.

Red gives you "reach":  that is, the ability to deliver the last few points of damage even if your opponent has board control.  Basically burn, which there is a nice amount of in the present standard environment (incinerate, the new 3 damage spell, etc.)


Been playing MODO,  and I've seen quite a few B/U faerie/rogue builds,  taking advantage of the synergy between BB and the faerie cards.

[Jain Zar]

I want to get rid of all my cards.  Sadly, finding someone willing to give cash/trade stuff for a 4000 count cardbox containing cards as far back as Antiquities and most recently Ravnica block precon decks (with the heaviest card concentration being Revised-Homelands stuff..) seems to be a hard thing to do. :(

[schild]

If it's stacked with Homelands and Fallen Empires, I suggest removing them. My collection increased in value when I removed them. Fuck those sets were low points. Lower than Mirrodin. And 50 times more boring.

[cmlancas]

I want to get rid of all my cards.  Sadly, finding someone willing to give cash/trade stuff for a 4000 count cardbox containing cards as far back as Antiquities and most recently Ravnica block precon decks (with the heaviest card concentration being Revised-Homelands stuff..) seems to be a hard thing to do. :(

Depends on what your rares/nice uncommons are. High points of your collection are most likely stuff from core sets as opposed to expansion rares because most of them will be type 2 legal still. If your collection is sorted well, I might be interested in floating you some cash for specific cards, but I don't need 4000 commons, 750 UCs and 250 rares that are random.

You have a deck list,  or specific cards/strategies you want to take advantage of with Bitterblossum?(incinerate, the new 3 damage spell, etc.

3x Prickly Boggart
4x Frogtosser Banneret
4x Oona's Blackguard
3x Auntie's Snitch
2x Boggart Harbinger
4x Noggin Whack
4x Morsel Theft
4x Earwig Squad
4x The Rack
4x Nameless Inversion
2x Cloak and Dagger
3x Profane Command
2x Extirpate

17 Swamp (Sue me, I don't have Mutavaults. I'm also proxying two Profane Commands and Two Extirpates.)

I'm not sure if Bitterblossom is worth it. Originally I was main decking Tarfire, Brute Force, and Wort, Goblin Auntie, but I think Wort is too slow and Tarfire and Brute Force are nice, but might only be a sideboard option (i.e. 3x Tarfire for the Inversions, 4x Brute Forces for the Rack, 4x Sulfurous Springs, 2x Mountains, and 2x Blaze for the Shriekmaws) because Wort is pretty slow and the burn doesn't really fit in with the theme. It soon became clear that with a Banneret in play, I much rather would like to play a Rack, a Squad, or a Theft/Whack instead of the burn cards.


Edit: Numbers didn't add up to 60! 

[Dash]

Wow impressive this game is still going strong.  I wonder if I can still find my old cards. 

So are the old rares still valuable at all?  I had a Black Lotus and some others that I cant remember but I think they had some modest value at the time.  Probably all just good for nostalgia now I'm sure.  Oh Royal Assassin was one.  Some Djinn guy too. 

Funny this came up, I was listening to a GFW podcast and they were talking about it too.

[Wershlak]

Wow impressive this game is still going strong.  I wonder if I can still find my old cards. 

So are the old rares still valuable at all?  I had a Black Lotus and some others that I cant remember but I think they had some modest value at the time.  Probably all just good for nostalgia now I'm sure.  Oh Royal Assassin was one.  Some Djinn guy too. 

Funny this came up, I was listening to a GFW podcast and they were talking about it too.

The Black Lotus should be worth a few hundred if it's in decent condition(check ebay). Some people still play with the old cards.

[Johny Cee]

Wow impressive this game is still going strong.  I wonder if I can still find my old cards. 

So are the old rares still valuable at all?  I had a Black Lotus and some others that I cant remember but I think they had some modest value at the time.  Probably all just good for nostalgia now I'm sure.  Oh Royal Assassin was one.  Some Djinn guy too. 

Funny this came up, I was listening to a GFW podcast and they were talking about it too.

Check the MtG Online forum in "Gamers Graveyard".  There are a couple of different threads on selling old cards there.

Black Lotus is potentially over a thousand, depending.  Anycraze.com puts it at $995 for Unlimited version,  more for Alpha/Beta.  Anycraze has some decent "ballpark" prices,  though obviously you'll get less from ebay or selling to a reseller.

[cmlancas]

I know this isn't a resell site, but if anyone here is interested in selling oldschool but still type II legal rares (give me a list in a private message), I'd be happy to try and work something out with you. 

Also, more standard deck discussion, plz. 

[Johny Cee]

I want to get rid of all my cards.  Sadly, finding someone willing to give cash/trade stuff for a 4000 count cardbox containing cards as far back as Antiquities and most recently Ravnica block precon decks (with the heaviest card concentration being Revised-Homelands stuff..) seems to be a hard thing to do. :(

Depends on what your rares/nice uncommons are. High points of your collection are most likely stuff from core sets as opposed to expansion rares because most of them will be type 2 legal still. If your collection is sorted well, I might be interested in floating you some cash for specific cards, but I don't need 4000 commons, 750 UCs and 250 rares that are random.

You have a deck list,  or specific cards/strategies you want to take advantage of with Bitterblossum?(incinerate, the new 3 damage spell, etc.

3x Prickly Boggart
4x Frogtosser Banneret
4x Oona's Blackguard
3x Auntie's Snitch
2x Boggart Harbinger
4x Noggin Whack
4x Morsel Theft
4x Earwig Squad
4x The Rack
4x Nameless Inversion
2x Cloak and Dagger
3x Profane Command
2x Extirpate

17 Swamp (Sue me, I don't have Mutavaults. I'm also proxying two Profane Commands and Two Extirpates.)

I'm not sure if Bitterblossom is worth it. Originally I was main decking Tarfire, Brute Force, and Wort, Goblin Auntie, but I think Wort is too slow and Tarfire and Brute Force are nice, but might only be a sideboard option (i.e. 3x Tarfire for the Inversions, 4x Brute Forces for the Rack, 4x Sulfurous Springs, 2x Mountains, and 2x Blaze for the Shriekmaws) because Wort is pretty slow and the burn doesn't really fit in with the theme. It soon became clear that with a Banneret in play, I much rather would like to play a Rack, a Squad, or a Theft/Whack instead of the burn cards.


Edit: Numbers didn't add up to 60! 

It looks like you're a little unfocused in your strategy.  You have some aggro critters in there,  and then some long game type spells.

I don't like the Rack in this deck.  Doesn't seem like you have enough discard for it.  A straight up discard/rack deck (Auger of Skulls, Thoughtseize, Oona's Blackguard, 1 drops to support, Bitterblossom, Noggin Wack, maybe a hand refiller like the black Muse, Hypnotic Specter, etc.) would better support it.

I don't like Extirpate main.  Great side card,  but not sure about it main.

I'm playing around with this on MODO now:

1 Pendelhaven
21 Swamp
4 Marsh Flitter
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Nightshade Stinger
4 Oona's Prowler
4 Thoughtseize
3 Morsel Theft
3 Noggin Whack
4 Oona's Blackguard
4 Prickly Boggart
4 Stinkdrinker Bandit

Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
4 Deathmark
4 Dunerider Outlaw
2 Peppersmoke
2 Shriekmaw
1 Morsel Theft
1 Noggin Whack

Very weak late game.  It's a house early rush.  Peppersmoke is on the side because of the ridiculous number of U/B faery decks on line.  One pithing needle because that's all I have.  Lot of green hate on the side, since Elves, Warriors, and Doran or G/B midrange decks are around.

I just don't want to shell out for Bitterblossom,  otherwise I'd go more mid range with less one drops and more pump (Bad Moon) and some extra "reach" finishers (Profane Command).

Basically when using prowl cards, it locks you into using a bunch of one drops and two drops.  Both Morsel and Noggin Wack are fucking awesome in that situation.  Noggin Wack isn't bad hardcasted,  Morsel Theft is decidely meh without prowling it out.

I like the idea of the Wort recursion with your gobbo cards.  What about Stinkdrinker Bandit?  That dude is rocking.

[Jain Zar]

The problem is back in the day the damned cards didn't even have rarity symbols on them.  So I have no idea what I have.  Merely that its most of a 4000 count box, and 2 500-600 count fat pack boxes with my decks in em.
I mostly bought boosters from Revised-Homelands.  A teeny amount from there through Onslaught, a fair amount of Kamigawa boosters & precons, my only ever booster box in Magic for Ravnica, then precons for the rest of that block and nothing since.

I could probably make waaay more than I would take for the lot of them, but its too much effort to sort.  And that would include leaving me a couple playdecks for nostalgia's sake.  

[Johny Cee]

The problem is back in the day the damned cards didn't even have rarity symbols on them.  So I have no idea what I have.  Merely that its most of a 4000 count box, and 2 500-600 count fat pack boxes with my decks in em.
I mostly bought boosters from Revised-Homelands.  A teeny amount from there through Onslaught, a fair amount of Kamigawa boosters & precons, my only ever booster box in Magic for Ravnica, then precons for the rest of that block and nothing since.

I could probably make waaay more than I would take for the lot of them, but its too much effort to sort.  And that would include leaving me a couple playdecks for nostalgia's sake. 

You can use the anycraze site to select for a certain rarity and a certain set (Revised Rares, for instance),  should give you a bunch of pages of cards with prices next to them.  Print that out,  you can scan through your collection of Revised and see if anything is worthwhile to sell.

Generally, that will be Dual Lands.

Homelands and Fallen Empires are pretty much shit.

Some good stuff in Legends, Antiquities, some of the other sets.  Most of the big money cards are Alpha/Beta/Unlimited.

Off topic:  Heard an interesting story from a Boston PTQ.  A licensed dealer (someone who was allowed to sell inside the event) had to get something to eat,  so left a buddy with not much MtG knowledge minding the shop.  A random passerby noted this,  pointed at a Black Lotus with a big 9 and two smaller 00s on the price tag and asked how much it was.  The ignorant guy said "9 bucks".  Sold!

[cmlancas]

1 Pendelhaven // Yes. I wish I had one. Pumping my 1/1 Blackguard when someone pops me with a burn or a Brigid is fun.
21 Swamp       // I've noticed that I don't need very many lands. My deck runs on 3 lands. Anything else is gravy. I keep finding that I really only need a 1-2BB Profane Command, and that's four lands.
4 Marsh Flitter  // I think this is slow. Why not a Banneret? Make your prowls 1 less? (B for Prowler, Whack, and 1B for Earwig Squad
4 Nameless Inversion // Solid. Everyone knows this play is even hotter when you get to play a removal spell for B with a Banneret in play.
4 Nightshade Stinger // I'm not sure about this one. I can think of better plays than this. Possibly sideboard if you match up against another rogue deck, but I think the flier is just as easily replaced by Fear (Prickly).
4 Oona's Prowler // Oh yeah. We know how much 3/1s for B rule. Not to mention when they pop into play as 4/2 Hypnotic Spectres.
4 Thoughtseize // Here's what I don't get. You'll shell out for four thoughtseize, but where are the Profane Commands? I'd take two out and main two Commands for balance.
3 Morsel Theft  // I think you need four of these. Nothing like gaining life and drawing a card.
3 Noggin Whack // Not much to say here.
4 Oona's Blackguard // Not much to say here either.
4 Prickly Boggart // Not much to say here either.
4 Stinkdrinker Bandit // Maybe I need to maindeck this. I just can't see taking out my Earwig Squads.

Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
4 Deathmark
4 Dunerider Outlaw
2 Peppersmoke
2 Shriekmaw
1 Morsel Theft
1 Noggin Whack

Very weak late game. // You can fix this with Earwig Squad. Nobody likes seeing a 6/4 on turn 3. Yuck. It's a house early rush.  Peppersmoke is on the side because of the ridiculous number of U/B faery decks on line. // This is a waste. If you're scared of U/B faerie, swap out six mountains/sulf. springs, four tarfires, three shocks, and other burn. One pithing needle because that's all I have.  Lot of green hate on the side, since Elves, Warriors, and Doran or G/B midrange decks are around.

I just don't want to shell out for Bitterblossom,  otherwise I'd go more mid range with less one drops and more pump (Bad Moon) and some extra "reach" finishers (Profane Command). // I agree with the reach finisher. You have no idea how satisfying it is to play a profane command on turn four and return a creature to play after someone tried to remove it and give an earwig squad fear to swing for 10 with everything else that is out there.

I like the idea of the Wort recursion with your gobbo cards.  What about Stinkdrinker Bandit?  That dude is rocking. // I need to try him out. I'll get back to you later about him. :)

[/color]

The big problem I had with Wort is that by the time I got her into play, I was out of cards in hand and had already deployed my strikeforce. I'm thinking about putting some blue in so I can recharge my hand with that one card out of Time Spiral and some other draw cards.

Oh, my reply has an issue with tone. I'm sorry if it seemed a bit terse.  I'm really interested to see how our decks would match up. Do you have Apprentice that we could fire up sometime?

[Johny Cee]

Sorry,  never really played around with Apprentice.  Have faaaaar too many MODO cards,  so it's pretty easy for me to build whatever I want there.

The deck I posted is all about the early game,  through beats and tempo.  It's a fairly decent budget deck, as you can swap out the Thoughtseize for more bread & butter rogues, to get 4 copies of Morsel Theft and Noggin Wack main, or the rogue equip.

Thoughtseize is great turns 1-3 to pluck out of your opponents hand that one card that would turn everything around.  WoG and mass removal effects mostly.

You need 8 one drops to make sure you're in position to prowl turn two.  A turn two stinkdrinker off of a Prickly Boggart or Stinger puts your opponent in deep trouble.  I see alot of turn 4 concedes.

I was originally running the Frogtossers,  but his lack of evasion hurt quite a bit, so swapped him out for the Prowlers.

I like Earwig Squad,  but he doesn't have evasion and isn't likely to attack before turn 4 (otherwise know as Wrath/Damnation turn).  Dropping a prowler or a Stinkdrinker will often mean good game at that point.  Should have a few on the side.  Should also be running 4 Mutavault main,  but don't have those online.


I really like Marsh Flitter.  He's better with the Frogtosser of course,  but he provides an evasive guy with goblins to pump him or to chump block.  Dropping a Flitter with a Blackguard in play is devastating,  as is dropping a Bad Moon and swinging.  Just having the chump blockers means that many times I survive the extra turn or two to deliver lethal damage.

May try swapping out the Thoughtseize for Frogtosser,  squeezing in some Bad Moons for a lethal alpha strike....

This build is weaker against U/B faeries, sort of a mixed game against Reviellark.  If I get a good tempo start on Lark decks,  it's game over.  If they develop the field, it's tough to pull out the win.  The Aven Riftwatcher builds are especially troublesome.


Definitely try the Stinkdrinkers.  They are amazing if you have a bunch of evasive rogues on the field, and should be full of win when used with BB. 

[cmlancas]

I'm not sure how someone could possibly Wrath/Damnation you if you drew a thoughtseize and an Earwig Squad.

Seize Wrath/Damnation, then on turn three, search the library and remove the last three. Problem solved. 

Anyway, tonight is draft night at my local shop. I'll try and see if I can pick up some Stinkdrinker Bandits.

What do you think about popping some U in to help with our card drawing problems?