Newb question about system-wide scanning, escapability

[Venkman]

I've got a pretty good grasp on the combat stuff again, including skill paths and supporting stuff. Amazing how quickly it all comes back.

One thing I don't know anything at all about though is Scanning.

I'd love to be able to enter a new system, do a system wide scan for stuff (mostly for ratting and locating unstealthed other players), and periodically do a new scan to get an idea where some of the hostile folks might be hiding who enter Local.

Do I need a special ship for that or can modules be asfixed to my Battle Cruiser and eventual Battleship?
What skills do I need?
What tactics can I employ to a) get outta dodge quickly; and, b) slow down pursuit?

I have this vision of dropping warp bubbles behind me as I warp out. When I get settled in whatever systems(s) I'll be in, I'll be making those escape points so that at any given time I'm no more than 45 degrees off from a warp point. I think Minmatar are still Armor tanks, though I've read on one of the wikis to train up Shield tanking too. But aside from that, what else can I do to improve my chances of getting out?

[Morat20]

I can't help you there, but I can add another question:

I've been collecting the "gold standard" skills put up in the Sneaky Thread on Cov-ops. I mission in a constelleton of .6 to .7 systems, and I was wondering if there was any way I could practice my probing skills there on things like exploration sites or finding abandonded drones or whatnot.

I'd prefer to avoid belt-scanning, since I don't have a miner set up and don't want to, but I could force myself. :)

[lac]

I'd love to be able to enter a new system, do a system wide scan for stuff (mostly for ratting and locating unstealthed other players), and periodically do a new scan to get an idea where some of the hostile folks might be hiding who enter Local.

The onboard scanner can tell you what is visible in space in a 14AU radius of where you are. You don't need any skills for that and its immediate. Its perfect for defensive purposes.

If you want to scan down the exact location of the ships in system you'll need specialised ships and gear and the relevant skills. Beginners info can be found in the covops training thread Endie made.

What tactics can I employ to a) get outta dodge quickly; and, b) slow down pursuit?

You align your ship to a celestial body and warp to it as soon as you think something tricky might happen. You can't drop warp bubbles as a defensive measure because it requires a specialised ship and you're the one who wants to warp, the attacker is the one who wants to prevent the warp.

think Minmatar are still Armor tanks

There are both matari shield and armor tanking ships, it all depends on the slot layout and sometimes the ship bonuses.

I've been collecting the "gold standard" skills put up in the Sneaky Thread on Cov-ops. I mission in a constelleton of .6 to .7 systems, and I was wondering if there was any way I could practice my probing skills there on things like exploration sites or finding abandonded drones or whatnot.

Of course, fit an exploration probe launcher, drop a multispec, choose cosmic signature in the scanner and see what's in the system (gravimetric results will be the hidden asteroid belts, magnetometric and radar sites require archaeology or hacking skills and unknows are combat sites you can do in a cruiser or bc and are pretty common). You will probably need to be able to use sift probes if you want to get a result that will drop you on grid.
If you want to scan down drones, use the recon probes you can fit and start fishing. There are a lot of abandoned drones in mission hubs but there will also be more competition. Abandoned drones are removed during down time, I think.

[Venkman]

Thanks. I'll head over to Endie's thread too.

[MahrinSkel]

think Minmatar are still Armor tanks

There are both matari shield and armor tanking ships, it all depends on the slot layout and sometimes the ship bonuses.

Yes, but the Matari shield tanks on T2 ships are much more balanced, and are generally considered the best.  Amarr makes the best armor tankers.  The high-grade passive shield tank with no need to fit was part of what made the Vagabond such a perfect ship for raiders (the Matari inertia bonus, like a free iStab, was another factor).  I *loved* my Minmatar Transports, the tank of a HAC without using up low slots.

--Dave

[Morat20]

Well, I am officially a cov-ops pilot. I spent last night scooting around in a Helios (covert-ops cloaks ROCK), dropping scanners, and practicing my probing skills by chasing down abandonded drones.

I am sad to state that the single T2 drone in system (a Hobgoblin II) eluded me, but I did manage to probe down three clutches of five abandonded drones, resulting in me picking up enough T1 mediums, lights, and heavies to ALMOST pay for the probes I was using.

Also, I really want Astrometrics V to use Ferrets and Deep Space Observators, mostly because that bloody Hob 2 was just impossible to scan down -- it must have been somewhere really weird. I could find it on directional scan (even narrowed it to a 30 degree arc once) but I could NOT get the bloody thing on a drone probe.

[bhodi]

Well, I am officially a cov-ops pilot. I spent last night scooting around in a Helios (covert-ops cloaks ROCK), dropping scanners, and practicing my probing skills by chasing down abandonded drones.

I am sad to state that the single T2 drone in system (a Hobgoblin II) eluded me, but I did manage to probe down three clutches of five abandonded drones, resulting in me picking up enough T1 mediums, lights, and heavies to ALMOST pay for the probes I was using.

Also, I really want Astrometrics V to use Ferrets and Deep Space Observators, mostly because that bloody Hob 2 was just impossible to scan down -- it must have been somewhere really weird. I could find it on directional scan (even narrowed it to a 30 degree arc once) but I could NOT get the bloody thing on a drone probe.

This is where triangulation helps, do it from 2 bodies to figure out roughly where it is; if there's a celestial nearish, go there, see if you can find it on scanner, if it's on scanner see if it's in snoop range, if it is, drop a snoop.

[Morat20]

This is where triangulation helps, do it from 2 bodies to figure out roughly where it is; if there's a celestial nearish, go there, see if you can find it on scanner, if it's on scanner see if it's in snoop range, if it is, drop a snoop.

I kept trying that -- I was dropping, um, hell I can't remember what probe I was dropping. Whatever was the longest range one I could drop (Fathom, I think). But I was having a real hard time placing them so they didn't overlap.

By triangulation, what do you mean? I had -- at most -- two probes out at a time and would analyze one at any given moment.

(My skills are to the "Gold Standard" except for Pinpointing, which I'll start training tonight).

[bhodi]

OK so here's how I scan stuff down.

First, you find the object in the directional scanner that you want. Then, drop the scan range. The key numbers to try are 750,000 (snoop range) and 1,500,000 (fathom range). If it's in snoop range, great, that's as close as you're ever going to get.

If it's in fathom range (10 AU), you can try dropping one, you might get lucky.
If it's not (10-14AU), you can try and drop a spook and you might get very lucky.

Otherwise, you'll have to get closer. Hold your direction and hit F10 if you aren't already in the solar system view. Your camera is facing where the thing is, and you should have a rough range on the thing. Since distance from you is listed next to every celestial object, you should be able to tell relative scale -- if there's a celestial object closer to the thing than where you are at, stay in the solar system menu, warp to it, and reorient your camera and check distance again. At this point you've triangulated the object and have a good idea if it's out in the middle of nowhere, or what.

If it's still out of range, and you can't pick it up on any of the longer range scanners, you're kind of screwed. You could try and drop a fathom and scan for something closer that you can use to leapfrog to, but I'd say at this point it's pointless.

Generally, though, if you can find something on scanner, you should be able to get within 5AU of it just by going to a closer celestial object, at which point you have a really good chance of picking it up with a snoop.

Remember that you can right click and destroy a probe from the scan menu; if you are having trouble getting a good warpin on something, you can warp to the closest warpin you have, right click to destroy your spook/fathom, and then drop a snoop.

[Morat20]

Okay, that makes sense and is what I was sort of groping towards yesterday by the time I called it a night. Are the ferrets and deep space observators worth training the 11d (for Astrometrics V) for? I've got a lovely set of shift work coming up again, and I'll have at least 8 full days where I'm not going to be playing EVE or even wanting to log on. :)

I think tonight and this weekend, if I have time, I'll put some fathoms and snoops into my cargo hold and visit a few systems in the constellation (all .6 or higher) and see if I can find some lonely T2 drones. I don't suppose there's any way to tell if a drone is in use or languishing lost in space, is there?

I'll practice my snooping skills there.

[bhodi]

Okay, that makes sense and is what I was sort of groping towards yesterday by the time I called it a night. Are the ferrets and deep space observators worth training the 11d (for Astrometrics V) for? I've got a lovely set of shift work coming up again, and I'll have at least 8 full days where I'm not going to be playing EVE or even wanting to log on. :)

I would say, no. Fathoms are already at 5 strength and you can't see shit; ferrets are 2 strength and observators are 1 strength. Even with maxed skills, they are pretty much a shot in the dark, with less than maxed, I'd say they are expensive and pointless.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Scan_Probing

[Morat20]

I would say, no. Fathoms are already at 5 strength and you can't see shit; ferrets are 2 strength and observators are 1 strength. Even with maxed skills, they are pretty much a shot in the dark, with less than maxed, I'd say they are expensive and pointless.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Scan_Probing

Allright -- which leads back to my other question -- when scanning, can I tell if drones are moving or stationary? (I assume their sig would be bigger if they're warping around). Is there a good real of thumb, like, "If your Fathom is resolving them to 50km from 8 AU away, they're probably MWDing".

[bhodi]

The only (easy) way I know of doing it is comparison; if you should get sensor strengths for multiple drones and if one is clearly higher, you've got a MWD signature.

You could also try playing with the equations on that website and work out base strengths for varying distances from your ship; I haven't done this.

[lac]

You can't tell.
Basically you'll be scanning, find a t2 drone, warp to the hit, launch a more precise probe, warp to zero and find an acceleration gate or a couple of drones. Active drones have a big sig when mwd'ing but are reduced in sig because they are in dead space, abandoned drones don't have a reduced sig but don't mwd. It evens out.

[5150]

Also, I really want Astrometrics V to use Ferrets and Deep Space Observators, mostly because that bloody Hob 2 was just impossible to scan down -- it must have been somewhere really weird. I could find it on directional scan (even narrowed it to a 30 degree arc once) but I could NOT get the bloody thing on a drone probe.

If you have the target on directional scan (so >15AU) Astro 5 and the toys it brings isnt going to help you (in that scenario)

[Morat20]

Also, I really want Astrometrics V to use Ferrets and Deep Space Observators, mostly because that bloody Hob 2 was just impossible to scan down -- it must have been somewhere really weird. I could find it on directional scan (even narrowed it to a 30 degree arc once) but I could NOT get the bloody thing on a drone probe.

If you have the target on directional scan (so >15AU) Astro 5 and the toys it brings isnt going to help you (in that scenario)

I'm starting to get decent just using Fathoms and Snoops. Getting used to warping around between orbit rings using the directional scanner set to fathom range (1,500,000,000) and seeing what's around. Anything interesting, and I'll warp to that.

So far, my take is a bunch of T1 drones, 9 hammerhead IIs, and about 5 million ISK in loot and another 20 million in salvage from finishing up some guy's L3 mission. Oh, and 1.5 million in bounties.

I probed him out while he had drones blazing away, warped to him, found a gate, and then warped through the mission gates (dropping bookmarks) until I found him engaged. Unfortunately, he hadn't moved off the gate so he decloaked me. I don't know if he saw me before I scampered, because he was fighting. I came back in a salvager and salvaged out the few wrecks in the first two rooms, scooped up some abandoned drones, and waited. All had already been looted.

Finally popped forward, saw cruiser rats, and ran again. Came back in my BC (it has a pair of salvagers and a tractor) and cleaned out the remaining cruiser rats in third room, looted and salvaged everything (once again, most of the wrecks he left were empty -- what wasn't, wasn't worth taking) and then cleared out rooms three and four.

So I cleared those out, couldn't advance to the last room, looted and salvaged and came home.

Which is just a long and sort of boring way to say: "I'm starting to be able to find mission runners and sneak around behind them, laughing".

[Murgos]

Here is a question.  Do Sentry Drones show up in Deadspace to a scan probe like regular drones do?  I mean, they don't move right?  So there should be no MWD signature.

I have a hub with 3 juicy l4 Q20 agents in a .2 system that I would like to use but I can't for fear of being scanned down due to my drones and going with just guns is too much of a hassle.

Being able to deploy Sentries would make it do-able proposition.

[lac]

Don't take this as a definite answer but I've scanned down over a 100 drones in deadspace pockets and I've never had a hit on a sentry drone yet. On the other hand they might not be used all that much in missions compared to the other kinds of drones.

[Reg]

I use sentries all the time. I suspect the reason you've never come across them is that they don't get abandoned very often. Since they don't move scooping them to your drone bay if you need to leave in a hurry takes no time at all.

[lac]

I meant I haven't scanned any down in an active deadspace pocket when somebody is doing missions there but I haven't found any floating in space either.

[Reg]

Ahh OK. It must be that they are only 1/100 detectible because they don't move then. I can't be the only mission runner who finds them really useful can I? :)

[Der Helm]

Training up drone sharpshooting as I type this.

[Murgos]

As of last night I can use sentry drones.  Maybe I'll wander over to my little .2 system and see how it goes.

There is also a Sisters station in that zone too if someone is interested.

[lac]

is it in aridia?