THE FUCKING BOURNE ULTIMATUM? REALLY?

[Nebu]

Shawshank Redemption not SWEEPING in 2004 was the greatest crime perpetrated on film since the entire industry's inception.

It's certainly up there.  Shawshank was a modern masterpiece. 

[Righ]

Shawshank Redemption not SWEEPING in 2004 was the greatest crime perpetrated on film since the entire industry's inception.

No, that position is reserved for the complete lack of Academy Awards given to Capra's classic "Arsenic and Old Lace" which should have swept the board in 1944.

[K9]

Shawshank Redemption not SWEEPING in 2004 was the greatest crime perpetrated on film since the entire industry's inception.

You mean '94 right?

[schild]

Shawshank Redemption not SWEEPING in 2004 was the greatest crime perpetrated on film since the entire industry's inception.

You mean '94 right?

Yes, I meant 1994. Whoops.

[K9]

Also, apparently there's Bourne 4 on the drawing board, although I have no idea if this source is even remotely credible:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117981337.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&nid=2562

On tap is a fourth "Bourne" movie, but their slate is full of efforts to either launch new franchises or resurrect old ones. The latter group include revivals of "The Mummy," "Hellboy" and "The Incredible Hulk," as well as another "The Fast and the Furious."

More recently, Shmuger and Linde landed Paul Greengrass and Matt Damon for a fourth "Bourne" movie, even though the director and star seemed ready to wrap it up after three pics. And they landed Sam Raimi to return to horror with "Drag Me to Hell," starring Ellen Page.

[stray]

That said, when you stack it alongside the other nominations, it seems like 2003 wasn't the most awesome year for choice:

Thought that was a pretty good year actually. Hmm... I guess this is the third time I fellate Eastwood here (didn't realize until now how much of a fan I am of his directing), but Mystic River was great. I've already watched it plenty of more times than Return of the King. Then again, the best part of it wasn't the directing necessarily, but the acting. And Robbins and Penn did win for it. Lost in Translation and Big Fish were good stuff as well. And far as big budget blockbusters go, Pirates of the Caribbean is so much more entertaining to me than Return of the King.

I still get a giggle out of all the nerds who seriously felt "vindicated" or something after LotR won though. That was funny.

[Abagadro]

Heh. Variety tends to be pretty accurate considering it is basically the daily bible of Hollywood.

[lamaros]

How about The Silence of the Lambs (1991)?

edit: waitaminute... Unforgiven, Schindler's List, American Beauty, and The Departed are all great flicks. And I rate No Country up there with The Godfather Part II.

Ow. When you look back at this statement in 20 years it's going to hurt.

RE Everyone: American Beauty?? You just singled out the worst winner. Ever.

Some of the winners have been decent films (though only a few), but nothing really good since Godfather Part II.

The best film I've seen recently was "Heart, Beating in the Dark" (http://imdb.com/title/tt0805648/) a 'remake' by the same director of a film he made in 1982 (http://imdb.com/title/tt0292366/).

[DraconianOne]

My first memories of Borgnine were Super Fuzz (one of the greatest superhero flicks ever btw) and the cabbie in Escape from NY.

But really, a guy who's been around that long? He better have been in a few Oscar worthy flicks or two.

Borgnine not only was in Marty which got Best Picture but he also won Best Male Lead that year as well.  He was also in the original 1953 From Here To Eternity which scooped 8 awards and won best picture as well. 

RE Everyone: American Beauty?? You just singled out the worst winner. Ever.

Some of the winners have been decent films (though only a few), but nothing really good since Godfather Part II.

American Beauty was a great film.  The most recent worst winner ever was Chicago, followed closely by Titanic.
 
I personally think the 60s was the weakest decade for winners but mainly on the back of Sound of Music, My Fair Lady and Oliver! as, on the whole, I detest musicals.  On the other hand, Lawrence of Arabia is one of the best films ever made period. (Long and boring in parts?  Get the fuck out of here!)   The 50s were very good - On the Waterfront, Bridge Over River Kwai, From Here to Eternity, All About Eve and Ben-Hur make up for An American In Paris and Gigi.  70s was a near flawless decade for winners - marred only by the presence of Rocky which is not a totally bad film in itself but beat Taxi Driver, Network and All the President's Men which were all more deserving. 

[Riggswolfe]

Best Film Editing,

What the fuck? Do people even watch movies that nominate movies for awards? This film was editted by a hyperactive five year old with epilepsy. Did they totally miss the fact that some plot threads start and then totally disappear?

Jesus, nominating this pile of shit for film editing only insures more shitty shaky cam and horrible editing coming down the pike.

[Sky]

I hate Kevin Spacey.

[HaemishM]

1996 - The English Patient
1991 - Silence of the Lambs

I cannot figure out why either of these movies would get an Oscar for Best Pic. Silence was ok at best, with a great performance by Hopkins. But the fucking English Patient? Other than Sayeed, the entire fucking movie was boring, romance novel SHIT. SHITTY SHIT SHIT SHIT. I'm supposed to feel some form of sympathy for a pair of adulterous dumbasses? I didn't, at all. The movie was tripe. It was Bridges of Madison County tripe.

EDIT: American Beauty was a good movie, but I could see how it rubs folks the wrong way. It's a very hard to take style of filmmaking. Return of the King shouldn't have won, and only did because the Academy felt bad for not giving Fellowship the win it deserved. Beautiful Mind, Titanic and Million-Dollar Baby shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won.

[schild]

Silence was OK at best.

lol. That's rich.

Good one.

[Ookii]

Do you people seriously not like movies or something?

[Yegolev]

I think I might be watching them wrong.  I enjoy stuff that may or may not be good.

[stray]

My first memories of Borgnine were Super Fuzz (one of the greatest superhero flicks ever btw) and the cabbie in Escape from NY.

But really, a guy who's been around that long? He better have been in a few Oscar worthy flicks or two.

Borgnine not only was in Marty which got Best Picture but he also won Best Male Lead that year as well.  He was also in the original 1953 From Here To Eternity which scooped 8 awards and won best picture as well.

Forgot about Marty... Didn't realize he won that. From Here to Eternity I knew he was in... He was also in the Wild Bunch and the Dozen...not really oscar type of flicks, but those are still some of the best movies around imo.

I personally think the 60s was the weakest decade for winners but mainly on the back of Sound of Music, My Fair Lady and Oliver! as, on the whole, I detest musicals.  On the other hand, Lawrence of Arabia is one of the best films ever made period. (Long and boring in parts?  Get the fuck out of here!)   The 50s were very good - On the Waterfront, Bridge Over River Kwai, From Here to Eternity, All About Eve and Ben-Hur make up for An American In Paris and Gigi.  70s was a near flawless decade for winners - marred only by the presence of Rocky which is not a totally bad film in itself but beat Taxi Driver, Network and All the President's Men which were all more deserving. 

Yeah the 60's were a joke. Hollywood studios were nearly falling apart by then, the good actors were trying to get out under their contracts, and all the really good shit was overseas.

Gonna have to disagree with you on Rocky though. Don't get me wrong, I've seen Taxi Driver at least 50 times, and always give Network and All the President's Men a look when they come on... But Rocky man.. That's like one of the best of the best to me. Like, time capsule-shoot it out into space for the universe to see- type of good. And one of the rare times when critics and the public were in complete alignment. Really inspiring..Still inspiring.. It's like, Terry Malloy meets Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. That's a formula that will always hit home -- but for it's time, it was even more potent. That was like one the most cynical decades ever in America. People needed that, and less Travis Bickle and Nixon. It's no surprise to me why it won.

[Merusk]

I think I might be watching them wrong.  I enjoy stuff that may or may not be good.

C'mon now. You're old enough you should know better than to give a rats ass about anyone else's opinion on what you think is good/ bad.  If you enjoy 'em, then you enjoy 'em. Doesn't mean you're 'watching them wrong.' 

[HaemishM]

I will repeat Silence of the Lambs was an OK movie. It was not a bad movie and it damn sure was better than all the other Hannibal shitpiles that came out later. And Hopkins was fantastic in it. But to me, it never really rose above "serial-killer thriller" movie, despite Hopkins turn. Had it not been acted as well as it was, it would have been Kiss the Girls shclock.

[Yegolev]

I think I might be watching them wrong.  I enjoy stuff that may or may not be good.

C'mon now. You're old enough you should know better than to give a rats ass about anyone else's opinion on what you think is good/ bad.  If you enjoy 'em, then you enjoy 'em. Doesn't mean you're 'watching them wrong.' 

Oh, true.  When I say 'good' or 'bad', I mean from a technical perspective.  You know, the thing that awards should actually be about instead of popularity or sociopolitics.  Great technical photography, great technical editing, great job sewing up some costumes, great job on Will Ferrel's pancake, I don't know about that.  I do know that I laughed my ass off watching Kung Pow.  I'm the same with music in that I don't understand music at all from a technical perspective, I just know what I like.

[naum]

Shawshank Redemption not SWEEPING in 2004 was the greatest crime perpetrated on film since the entire industry's inception.

It's certainly up there.  Shawshank was a modern masterpiece. 

Shawshank Redemption is great flick, but problem is, that movie & theme been done so many times… …even the first time I watched it, I could easily predict the plot sequence and to no surprise, it followed perfect, just like the dozens (if not hundreds) of prison movies made in the same vein…

SPOILER (for the recluse who hasn't seen it…)




























…innocent dude, evil warden, sadistic guards, befriended by older lifer, tragedy of sentimental old sap who cannot adapt to RL, the great escape, etc.…

[stray]

I think I might be watching them wrong.  I enjoy stuff that may or may not be good.

C'mon now. You're old enough you should know better than to give a rats ass about anyone else's opinion on what you think is good/ bad.  If you enjoy 'em, then you enjoy 'em. Doesn't mean you're 'watching them wrong.' 

Oh, true.  When I say 'good' or 'bad', I mean from a technical perspective.  You know, the thing that awards should actually be about instead of popularity or sociopolitics.  Great technical photography, great technical editing, great job sewing up some costumes, great job on Will Ferrel's pancake, I don't know about that.  I do know that I laughed my ass off watching Kung Pow.  I'm the same with music in that I don't understand music at all from a technical perspective, I just know what I like.

Hey, I'm a musician, and rarely like things from a technical perspective (if anything, that comes much later). I don't think technicalities are why some things get critically praised or slammed more than others... There is that, but for the most part, works aren't getting attention for elements that the average person doesn't know about or see. They're talking about the final work that was available for everyone (whether it be a book, movie, or album). The final result, not the process. Half of the time, the process is full of intangibles anyways, and can't be talked about.

Anyhow, just keep on liking what you like -- but keep an open mind at the same time. I don't think any critic or any industry professional/artist is doing anything different. It's only when you have no open mind at all, and are completely set in your ways about what "you like" that your opinion means absolutely shit.

[lamaros]

Shawshank is about 3 hours longer than it needs to be. Plus it's in no way original. Silence is ok, but I'm with Haem. Many others of the winners were watchable and even enjoyable (though many were not) but they were not great films. Great hollywood films maybe, but there are a lot more films made a year than that and just because something doesn't get a wide release or have a huge budget or big stars doesn't mean it's some foreign language art house picture (which can also be great sometimes).

I'm the kind of person who struggles to think of ten great anythings though, while I get the impression some of you could reel off 100's in any category (except maybe games) without a pause. Obviously this might come down to a different idea of what great means as much as having little knowledge or breadth of experience (seeing lots of stuff) in film.

American Beauty is the most hackneyed, cliche, cringe inducing pile of narcassistic award dredging crap I have ever had the misfortune to watch. It screams "I'm edgy and wacky and arty and insightful and beautiful and.. oh fuck it just GIVE ME MY AWARDS!!!" without being any of those things. Oh shit! There's beauty in the world, even where some people think there isn't! Oh shit, people are dysfunctional! Oh shit, etc etc.

[K9]

the great escape

Awesome film 

[Nebu]

American Beauty is the most hackneyed, cliche, cringe inducing pile of narcassistic award dredging crap I have ever had the misfortune to watch. It screams "I'm edgy and wacky and arty and insightful and beautiful and.. oh fuck it just GIVE ME MY AWARDS!!!" without being any of those things. Oh shit! There's beauty in the world, even where some people think there isn't! Oh shit, people are dysfunctional! Oh shit, etc etc.

I think American Beauty means different things to people in different stages of their lives.  Were I 20 instead of 40 I would have thought the same thing as you do.  I felt I could relate to Spacey's character to some degree (i.e. realizing that your priorities in life are all fucked up) and it's not often that happens with a film. 

Tastes vary.

[SurfD]

That said, when you stack it alongside the other nominations, it seems like 2003 wasn't the most awesome year for choice:

Thought that was a pretty good year actually. Hmm... I guess this is the third time I fellate Eastwood here (didn't realize until now how much of a fan I am of his directing), but Mystic River was great. I've already watched it plenty of more times than Return of the King. Then again, the best part of it wasn't the directing necessarily, but the acting. And Robbins and Penn did win for it. Lost in Translation and Big Fish were good stuff as well. And far as big budget blockbusters go, Pirates of the Caribbean is so much more entertaining to me than Return of the King.

I still get a giggle out of all the nerds who seriously felt "vindicated" or something after LotR won though. That was funny.

Depp should have won that award, not Penn.  Depp played a kicass, AWESOME character, with loads of personality.  Shawn Penn won for, yet again, playing Shawn Penn in a movie.  The Exact same character he played in like 4 other movies in the preceding years.

[WayAbvPar]

Penn has 2 characters- Jeff Spicoli and Sean Penn. Guess which one I like better?

[Nebu]

Penn has 2 characters- Jeff Spicoli and Sean Penn. Guess which one I like better?

He did a nice job in I am Sam. At least I thought so. 

[WayAbvPar]

Penn has 2 characters- Jeff Spicoli and Sean Penn. Guess which one I like better?

He did a nice job in I am Sam. At least I thought so. 

I thought of that right as I posted. I just figure that is an amalgamation...we'll call it EXTREMELY STONED/retarded Sean Penn. 

[Nebu]

I thought of that right as I posted. I just figure that is an amalgamation...we'll call it EXTREMELY STONED/retarded Sean Penn. 

WAP 1, Nebu 0

[stray]

Shawshank is about 3 hours longer than it needs to be. Plus it's in no way original. Silence is ok, but I'm with Haem. Many others of the winners were watchable and even enjoyable (though many were not) but they were not great films. Great hollywood films maybe, but there are a lot more films made a year than that and just because something doesn't get a wide release or have a huge budget or big stars doesn't mean it's some foreign language art house picture (which can also be great sometimes).

I'm the kind of person who struggles to think of ten great anythings though, while I get the impression some of you could reel off 100's in any category (except maybe games) without a pause. Obviously this might come down to a different idea of what great means as much as having little knowledge or breadth of experience (seeing lots of stuff) in film.

American Beauty is the most hackneyed, cliche, cringe inducing pile of narcassistic award dredging crap I have ever had the misfortune to watch. It screams "I'm edgy and wacky and arty and insightful and beautiful and.. oh fuck it just GIVE ME MY AWARDS!!!" without being any of those things. Oh shit! There's beauty in the world, even where some people think there isn't! Oh shit, people are dysfunctional! Oh shit, etc etc.

I have no idea what was so narcissistic or "artsy" about American Beauty. I think you said the same thing about Fight Club once too. What makes them narcissistic? And what the hell kind of criticism is that for a film anyways? Usually it's applied to human beings. How can a film be narcissistic? Do you mean, like, in the Fellini sense? How so then? I don't see anything forcibly "biographical" from either Mendes or Fincher in either one of them. Or do you mean in the John Waters sense? I don't see that either... There's not much kitschy shock value to either one of those films.

Or is it the lead characters that you don't like?

The truth is, many middle class American men are as dysfunctional, miserable, and secretly would like to lash out as the ones in those two flicks. Not to say that they're realistic depictions... Just that the subject matter is accurate. There's nothing really "edgy" about it. If they were too edgy and out there, most people probably wouldn't have even sat through them.

[lamaros]

I think American Beauty means different things to people in different stages of their lives.  Were I 20 instead of 40 I would have thought the same thing as you do.  I felt I could relate to Spacey's character to some degree (i.e. realizing that your priorities in life are all fucked up) and it's not often that happens with a film. 

Tastes vary.

That may be so (there's no accounting for it, to be sure..), but surely, surely you have watched other films that create the same connection but do so in a less superficial way?

I'm not against any film that points out the beauty in places where people commonly miss it (which is one thing I think it tries to do), because I feel that people very often do and that making a point of this is a decent thing to do, but I absolutly detest the way in which American Beauty does this. I feel it is patronising; which isn't what an appreicition of life should be about, and self-satisfied; which is at odds with the basic premise being forwarded. That plastic bag scene? "Here's the key to life kids! Watch and take notes."

Even if you've never seen another film that engenders such an identification, surely that doesn't stop you from seeing the flaws in the way this film does it and imagining another film that does it better?

I have no idea what was so narcissistic or "artsy" about American Beauty. I think you said the same thing about Fight Club once too. What makes them narcissistic?

Eh, what do you think narcissistic means? They loveth their own images. Basking in the glory of their reflections--in shallow pools.

[Nebu]

That may be so (there's no accounting for it, to be sure..), but surely, surely you have watched other films that create the same connection but do so in a less superficial way?

Very true.  I just can't think of any other films that year that really grabbed me.  Maybe I should go back and take a look. 

[lamaros]

And what the hell kind of criticism is that for a film anyways?

Would you rather an essay on the way in which the film mixes diagetic and non-diagetic sound in order to create a false sense of connection between disparate elements? It's been a while since I wrote about film in such a way, so I'd have to get my books out. I'm not sure how conversant people here are with film criticism so I thought I'd state my view in simpler language.

[stray]

Dude. What? You criticize American Beauty for the plastic bag scene? Are you serious? That wasn't even what the movie or even what the title of the movie was about. It had nothing to do with the premise of the film. And that side character was purposely full of himself. You're supposed to hate him. He was a fucking psycho kid, who took joy in everyone's pain, and was left all to himself and a camera. Of course he was narcissistic.


Sean Penn was also good in Carlito's Way.

[edit]

And what the hell kind of criticism is that for a film anyways?

Would you rather an essay on the way in which the film mixes diagetic and non-diagetic sound in order to create a false sense of connection between disparate elements? It's been a while since I wrote about film in such a way, so I'd have to get my books out. I'm not sure how conversant people here are with film criticism so I thought I'd state my view in simpler language.

Don't be an asshole. There's no point to it here.

[lamaros]

You're making the mistake you think I'm making. I'm not basing my criticism on a single point. I'm merely giving an example.

Also I was talking about the plastic bag bit. Not a specific character. Remember? When the plastic bag is up there on the screen floating about? Not the kid who took that film nor a discussion of it, that actual scene.

On a petty note: What the fuck is it with people who think that things that are in films and books and etc have nothing to do with them? How much more absurd can you get.

I enjoyed Mystic River, but I'm not a big Sean Penn fan.