Color me not surprised. Exploits in WoW?

[Cosmik]

Well, it seems that Blizzard decided if you have a winning formula, stick with it. And unfortunately that includes making the lives of exploiters a bit too easy.

Come on. You knew it was going to happen.

[Trippy]

Actually I have the opposite opinion of Blizzard's actions just based on what I read above in those links. Blizzard's normal B.Net policy for cheaters is to ban the account name (not the CD key) and then maybe after the, oh I don't know, tenth or twentieth account name ban they might ban the CD key, which is of course pointless with all the keygen programs out there. The fact that they banned that guy without any apparent warning first shows they are much more serious about cheaters in WoW, even though it's just Beta, than they are on B.Net. As for the game actually having exploits that's hardly unexpected -- I don't know of any MMORPG that hasn't had some exploits.

[Cosmik]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm happy for Blizzard to have banned this guy if what he says is true. My beef with Blizzard lies elsewhere.

I'm just saying I'm not surprised that a Blizzard game could currently have these exploits. Sure, its beta. But that ominous release date is fast approaching, and to have this many exploits at once at this stage, and an exploit such as flying -- well, I've never seen an exploit like that in a MMORPG before.

I would have been nice for Blizzard to avoid things like this, considering past issues with their games, and issues with the MMORPG genre in general, but we know reality is a hard bitch.

[Tairnyn]

Patch Notes:

To assist exploiters, we've now added the insta-ban feature. Identified exploiters will now be given bonus time with their friends and family outside of the game so that we can make the lives of exploiters easier. This is just a step towards our dream of a fully exploitable online experience.

Several new exploits have been added to increase the pool of these rewards. We realize that the current MMOG alternatives are exploit-free and therefore do not cater to all players. We hope to provide a truly unique play experience for both the serious player and belligerent asshole alike.

[Merusk]

.. and an exploit such as flying -- well, I've never seen an exploit like that in a MMORPG before.

Yeah, that's never happened before...

That WoW boards link also mentioned a speedhack.  What's up with MMO Devs that run & speedhacks aren't the first thing they quash even before alpha is released?  It's not like people forget about Gear, etc. but the last 3 games I've followed have gone "Oh, whoops we'll have to fix that!" shortly before release.

[Cosmik]

.. and an exploit such as flying -- well, I've never seen an exploit like that in a MMORPG before.

Yeah, that's never happened before...

Yeah, but the planes don't fly, so that kinda cancels out the flying tank. Right? Bleh.

[Megrim]

That WoW boards link also mentioned a speedhack.  What's up with MMO Devs that run & speedhacks aren't the first thing they quash even before alpha is released?  

I think the problem specifically with Blizzard games is/was that they recycle a lot of their code. Which in turn makes it all to easy for hackers that have broken their previous software to do so all over again, and again...

Now in that WoW is a completely new game type for Blizzard and there in theory should not be any recycling going on at all is all good and well, but as with previous Blizzard releases i've the nagging feeling that this game will be ripe with h4x a month after release. At which point they will of course make a big show of "banning" cheaters.

And oh how eBay will prosper.

 - Meg

[Soukyan]

That WoW boards link also mentioned a speedhack.  What's up with MMO Devs that run & speedhacks aren't the first thing they quash even before alpha is released?  

I think the problem specifically with Blizzard games is/was that they recycle a lot of their code. Which in turn makes it all to easy for hackers that have broken their previous software to do so all over again, and again...

Now in that WoW is a completely new game type for Blizzard and there in theory should not be any recycling going on at all is all good and well, but as with previous Blizzard releases i've the nagging feeling that this game will be ripe with h4x a month after release. At which point they will of course make a big show of "banning" cheaters.

And oh how eBay will prosper.

 - Meg

The speed hack has been out since Half Life and works in nearly every MMOG released to date. Perhaps they just need Punkbuster on the servers.

[Mesozoic]

Banning hackers is the dirt-poor step child of fixing the gaddamned game.

[El Gallo]

You could sort of fly with the godmode hack in AC.

[Jayce]

You could sort of fly with the godmode hack in AC.

Banning hackers is the dirt-poor step child of fixing the gaddamned game.

Speaking of AC, they tried the "fix the game, not the players" approach.  

That said, fixing the game is an activity I support, even if it's not a panacea.

I think you need both, really.

[AOFanboi]

Does not change the fact that for an exploit to exist in a computer game, the programmers must have put it there.

Full-coverage unit testing for the win and all that.

[Paelos]

I prefer the "fix the game; castrate the hackers" approach, but there are stages surrounding that. It's a sliding scale of game>xploits to xploits>game. Then the pendulum swings back eventually if the game goes long enough, but certainly not to the original extreme.

[personman]

Banning hackers is the dirt-poor step child of fixing the gaddamned game.

I agree, but looking over a typical conversation on BlizzHackers I think these guys should be banned on general principle.

[HaemishM]

If the banned person exploited in the beta but didn't report it, he should have been banned instantly, and his name and contact information flagged for release so they could watch him if and when he buys the game. If he exploited and reported it, he should be told not to exploit and allowed to continue in beta but with all his future actions logged and watched to make sure he isn't using the same exploits.

It all depends on if he reported it or not. If he did report it, not really much harm or foul, because as a beta tester, finding that kind of shit is what he's there for. If he didn't, fuck him and his family for being a piece of shit parasite on the anus of MMOG's. People like Baka, who cheated during the SB beta and never reported the exploits, then cheated in release and was banned for it, are a great resource for betas so long as they report the cheats. But if they don't report it, they are just assholes who hinder the game because they WILL cheat in release.

[jwinston2]

This was posted in the forum for those interested:

 Just a quick FYI cut-and-paste directly from the UI mod forum for folks that may not be aware of Blizzard's stance at this time:

"Thanks to all the programmers and scripters that are coming up with cool UI tweaks and automated scripts. We want to encourage you to experiment with the UI and the scripting language in any and all ways possible.

But we want to be up front about why we are doing this. Including a scripting system into the game gave us a big advantage in developing our UI in a quick and efficient manner. We also wanted users to be able to customize their UIs in very creative ways. But it also leaves us open to vulnerabilities. At some point, interface scripting crosses the line and becomes "macroing" (in the bad sense of the word) or allows players to run "bots". These are prohibited by most MMORPGs because they confer an overly unfair advantage to players, unbalance the game or economy, and can generally ruin the game.


We want to find all these exploits in the Beta so we can determine what"s "okay" and what"s definitely going to detract from the game experience or ruin the economy. For now, there are no restrictions, create what you will, including "bots." But please tell us about your discoveries. At some future point, we will formulate guidelines that will determine what is appropriate. Your help will be invaluable in this process."

In other words, hack away. BUT REPORT WHAT YOU DO.

[Tairnyn]

Does not change the fact that for an exploit to exist in a computer game, the programmers must have put it there.

Full-coverage unit testing for the win and all that.

I wouldn't necessarily say they put it there. More like they failed to address the possibility of it occurring from every vector. When you're talking about a complicated application with as many variables as a MMOG, there are countless unit and limit testing scenarios that would be required to cover the entire gambit.

Lack of foresight seems to be the primary cause of most exploit and bug behavior. It's not that the problem isn't addressed, it's just that it isn't addressed to the full breadth of possibilities. A couple thousand players tend to think of more varied exploitation possibilities than a team of developers before the fact. That's the primary reason for beta testing.

I don't completely disagree with you, I just feel it's unfair for many to assume this is the doom of WoW and exploiters will frolick freely through cartoonish flaxen fields. It's just par for the course.

[WayAbvPar]

Banning hackers is the dirt-poor step child of fixing the gaddamned game.

I agree, but looking over a typical conversation on BlizzHackers I think these guys should be banned on general principle.

Jesus. I think I lost 25 IQ points just reading that. Better they whack off than reproduce, I guess.

[schild]

With names like DrCrapPants and Rambo_Goes_Meow, you can be sure they have some deep philosophical conversations there. I mean look at this:

DrCrapPants wrote:
too fast=skin in zipper

I did that once when I was done taking a piss... I bleed a little  It hurt so damn much.

That's art.

[schild]

I just did a quick count. They have roughly 92,000 people in their forums. Let's assume half of those are active. So they have 46,000 active people. We have about 200 of 700. That's uhmm... Maybe we're doing something wrong. Or something right. Fascinating.

[HaemishM]

I would say at the very least we are typing with the shift key and not caps lock.

[Ardent]

A thread on their General Discussion board called "I got my webcam / deskcam page up today :)" has 104 pages of posts.

I sure hope that planet-destroying asteroid gets here soon.

[Fargull]

Or something right

The level of stupid there makes the vault look charming.

[Numtini]

We want to find all these exploits in the Beta so we can determine what"s "okay" and what"s definitely going to detract from the game experience or ruin the economy. For now, there are no restrictions, create what you will, including "bots." But please tell us about your discoveries. At some future point, we will formulate guidelines that will determine what is appropriate. Your help will be invaluable in this process

My my two cents, but I think that taking a large beta community and allowing them to macro, bot, and exploit bugs creates a culture of exploits. People become used to it. They learn how to do it. And then when release comes, even if it's banned, they go ahead and keep doing the same thing they were doing in beta.

[Ardent]

I can see Blizzard's logic. "Please, break our game in beta so we know how to find the cheaters in retail." Whether this comes to fruition and keeps the game hovering somewhere near fairness remains to be seen.

Pesonally, I have never met an exploiter in WoW. But then again, I don't really PvP much.

[Cosmik]

This was posted in the forum for those interested:

 Just a quick FYI cut-and-paste directly from the UI mod forum for folks that may not be aware of Blizzard's stance at this time:

"Thanks to all the programmers and scripters that are coming up with cool UI tweaks and automated scripts. We want to encourage you to experiment with the UI and the scripting language in any and all ways possible.

But we want to be up front about why we are doing this. Including a scripting system into the game gave us a big advantage in developing our UI in a quick and efficient manner. We also wanted users to be able to customize their UIs in very creative ways. But it also leaves us open to vulnerabilities. At some point, interface scripting crosses the line and becomes "macroing" (in the bad sense of the word) or allows players to run "bots". These are prohibited by most MMORPGs because they confer an overly unfair advantage to players, unbalance the game or economy, and can generally ruin the game.


We want to find all these exploits in the Beta so we can determine what"s "okay" and what"s definitely going to detract from the game experience or ruin the economy. For now, there are no restrictions, create what you will, including "bots." But please tell us about your discoveries. At some future point, we will formulate guidelines that will determine what is appropriate. Your help will be invaluable in this process."

In other words, hack away. BUT REPORT WHAT YOU DO.

Of note, there's already a fair idea what stance Blizzard will take post-beta. I wonder if they'll allow UI scripters to continue on though (like some other MMOGs have), which would involve a nice slice of hypocrisy pie.

[Shannow]

In other words, hack away. BUT REPORT WHAT YOU DO.

heh

[Megrim]

ooOOoOooO

The speed hack has been out since Half Life and works in nearly every MMOG released to date. Perhaps they just need Punkbuster on the servers.

Speedhacks are not really a generic thing you can just slap onto a game like a universal adaptor and go at it. As far as i know, most things like wall/map/speed hacks are game specific in design, utilising individual loopholes to create similar effects. For example (if memory serves) the Half-Life speedhacks were a combination of messing with the friction settings and some clever scripting exploits involving turn-speeds.

But see, i think it's more towards what a combination of what Mesozoic & AOFanboi have said: a game with the budget of WoW and with the experience of Blizzard behind it should not have this crap in it. There are plenty of online games that are cheat free on their own, without third-party assistance.

 - Meg

[Disco Stu]

Does not change the fact that for an exploit to exist in a computer game, the programmers must have put it there.

Full-coverage unit testing for the win and all that.

It's already been said but just to reinforce the idea; when you're making something as complex as MMOG exploits will exist. It's just a fact of life. The programmers don't put the exploits there rather they just don't protect against them well enough. You are never going to be able to release an exploit free game. Trying to do so would be a waste of time and money. In my opinion the best defense is a good offense. Try to get all the exploits sure but IMO banning hackers with extreme prejudice is much more important.

[Merusk]

Speedhacks are not really a generic thing you can just slap onto a game like a universal adaptor and go at it. As far as i know, most things like wall/map/speed hacks are game specific in design, utilising individual loopholes to create similar effects. For example (if memory serves) the Half-Life speedhacks were a combination of messing with the friction settings and some clever scripting exploits involving turn-speeds.

The most prevalant ones have been universal.  GEAR, which just sped-up your cycle times, and the other common trick being to send more packets per second than usual to move. Simple shit that anyone paying attention to the rest of the game world should have seen coming and countered in their games prior to the beta phase.

[Evil Elvis]

You could sort of fly with the godmode hack in AC.

Banning hackers is the dirt-poor step child of fixing the gaddamned game.

Speaking of AC, they tried the "fix the game, not the players" approach.  

That said, fixing the game is an activity I support, even if it's not a panacea.

I think you need both, really.

Except Turbine has never really been capable of fixing their game exploits.  Most of their big bugs/exploits weren't fixed for months and months after they'd become a real problem, and even then the fixes are usually half-assed and buggy.