So how am I doing?

[Ralence]

As for the comment on Flash of Light being easy enough to do while watching TV, I believe you are wrong.  I have a level 70 priest too.  Healing with a priest is much more hands off.  Healadin is more about playing poke the buttons, but as I've said I serve other roles too.  I'm also much more durable (typically the last to die in a group instead of the first.)  I also have a much bigger mana pool to pull from and abilities to keep my mana flowing in too.

  I was specifically talking about healing in raids for a holy paladin, where I was always designated as a "MT healer", and had one target to be responsible for, and therefore, one button to mash.   I also found that healing in 5-mans, especially heroics, was much more difficult because of the lack of HoTs/Group heals as compared to a resto druid or priest.  I'm sure an overgeared group can handle H SH just fine with a healadin, but as a tank, I'm way more comfortable with a priest/druid in the group.

 

[Morfiend]

A druid can't tank/heal/DPS with the same build or the same gear. Unless you want to constantly respec and keep multiple sets of gear don't expect to do all three.

All 3 are faster than leveling another toon to 70.  That was my point.   

They can Tank and DPS with the same spec though.

[Morfiend]

I'm sorry I asked.  I'm just gonna go back to having fun.

Get Sanctified Judgment. It will make a huge difference in your mana consumption.

[Righ]

Also a tank (bear or otherwise) is a must have for a 5 man and mostly useless in PvP.

How is feral druid mostly useless in PvP? I'll grant you that its not the ideal arena FOTM, but that's not what PvP is to everybody.

[Dren]

Also a tank (bear or otherwise) is a must have for a 5 man and mostly useless in PvP.

How is feral druid mostly useless in PvP? I'll grant you that its not the ideal arena FOTM, but that's not what PvP is to everybody.

Yeah, they are very nice in BG's.  They may not be optimum for arena's, but they are far far from useless....really in any situation.

They go beyond 5-man's too.  Our best feral druid in the guild tanks for us in Karazhan on occasions.  Tank gear and DPS gear.  It is ALWAYS nice to have that kind of flexibility.  He will also step in as a 1/2 healer when required too.  Battle res for the win.  And the cherry is that power that gives you a huge mana regen boost (can't remember the name...tranquility is it?)  That has saved our asses soooo many times.

[Arrrgh]

Also a tank (bear or otherwise) is a must have for a 5 man and mostly useless in PvP.

How is feral druid mostly useless in PvP? I'll grant you that its not the ideal arena FOTM, but that's not what PvP is to everybody.

I meant a feral druid geared/gemmed for PVE tanking. That's not the same as a feral druid geared/gemmed for PvP DPS.

[Righ]

I still don't understand. Why wouldn't any feral druid work on gear for both tanking and DPS? Even without sacrificing your tanking by spending DKP on kitty raid drops or spending honor on kitty rewards, you can put together an impressive DPS set while primarily being a party's tank:

http://www.gurgleblaster.net/emmerald/Cat_Sustained_DPS/Head.html

[Dren]

Yeah, it is just spending more time getting the drops/badges/rep/etc.  We have a feral druid in the guild that goes only after DPS gear, but he's really not doing himself any favors.  Yes, that is the style of play you prefer, but when you get to a boss that really requires one less tank and one more dps, adapt or log for the night.  Those are your choices.

I have a feral druid to 65 right now and love it.  The flexibility is very attractive and fun.  I can't imagine limiting myself like that really.  I mean, you're playing probably the best hybrid class in the game, why not use that to your advantage?

[Morfiend]

My guild uses 2 Ferals for OT. They are both very consistant and great players, so they make the perfect raiding off tanks. If the fight calls for tanks, they tank, if it doesnt they DPS. Win win situation.

[Xerapis]

I'm looking at going with this for my final hunter talents.

I love Beast Mastery, and I never pass up Hawk Eye.  Any suggestions in polishing this build for endgame?

Of course, I'm still a long ways off.  These days I'm focusing on raising up my fishing/cooking/first aid/mining/engineering.  I'm a professions whore.

[Hutch]

I'm looking at going with this for my final hunter talents.

I love Beast Mastery, and I never pass up Hawk Eye.  Any suggestions in polishing this build for endgame?

Of course, I'm still a long ways off.  These days I'm focusing on raising up my fishing/cooking/first aid/mining/engineering.  I'm a professions whore.

I don't think you'll need Go for the Throat if you have Bestial Discipline. Not sure where else you should put those points, though. Efficiency, maybe. This is a PvE/instance/raid character, yes?
If you're going to pvp, putting points into Endurance Training won't hurt.

[DraconianOne]

Grinding a bunch of grey mobs for cloth to raise first aid will give me something to do for a couple days when I'm either at the cap or just plain tired of leveling.  Same with running around newb zones mining copper or whatever. 

At high levels, soloing instances like SFK or WC will take not very long and earn you stacks of cloth in the process.  I wouldn't worry about it. 

[WindupAtheist]

Two points into Sanctified Judgement and it's already sweet.  Thanks for the tip, Morf.

[Righ]

I don't think you'll need Go for the Throat if you have Bestial Discipline.

It would be a mistake in most builds to pass it up. Focus dumps are pet skills with no cooldown timer. The pet can use them as often as they have focus, so any talent that allows you to rapidly generate a chunk of focus gives a big increase to both DPS and threat.

I'm not sure of its efficacy in these days of players sporting high resilience, but I love to have savage strikes and a big two handed weapon.

[Hutch]

I don't think you'll need Go for the Throat if you have Bestial Discipline.

It would be a mistake in most builds to pass it up. Focus dumps are pet skills with no cooldown timer. The pet can use them as often as they have focus, so any talent that allows you to rapidly generate a chunk of focus gives a big increase to both DPS and threat.

Right. Bestial Discipline is such a talent, and it is always working. GFTT depends on you (the pet's master) scoring a crit. I'm just saying, you've got focus generation covered, so those two points in GFTT could be more useful elsewhere. And if you are in PvP, then you might look at dropping those points into the +stamina talent from BM.

[Wershlak]

My paladin.

Assorted notes:

*  No twinkage here.  This is my main, so all my gear is drops, quest rewards, or stuff I bought off the AH with money I made on this character.  What sort of stuff do I want to equip as a ret paladin?

*  If I go all-out for damage I become a super mana whore and have to drink after every one or two fights.  Am I doing something wrong, or is that just the way this sort of thing plays when you're mostly focusing on str/stam?

I'm not sure based on your post here if you are definately sold on retribution or just figure that is best for leveling. I started out Ret as a paladin but switched to Prot at some point when a friend recommended it and it was a blast for leveling. With Prot you'll do more damage with more mobs beating on you. The general strat would be to grab 4 mobs and whack away until they are all dead. You will end up with full hps and full mana. It's pretty fun.

Protection is boring in BGs though if you get into that.

[WindupAtheist]

For some reason my little guild is really heavy on pallies.  I'm good friends with a prot and a holy around my level, so I'm ret just because... well I find it cool so far and nobody else is.  We'll see what we see.

[Righ]

Right. Bestial Discipline is such a talent, and it is always working. GFTT depends on you (the pet's master) scoring a crit. I'm just saying, you've got focus generation covered, so those two points in GFTT could be more useful elsewhere. And if you are in PvP, then you might look at dropping those points into the +stamina talent from BM.

Focus generation isn't 'covered' - having both is cumulative. I'm not sure where else you're going to find as much DPS with those points.

[Dren]

Since we're looking at, "How am I doing," I'm posting my build up for view.  I'm going after a hybrid of healer for both PvP and Raids.  I need to do some cleanup of gems and have a few more items to upgrade (to a reasonable level, speaking PvE wise.)  I'm still working on honor, marks, and arena points for more PvP gear and getting an occasional upgrade from Karazhan right now.

My talents go mostly for healer, but sacrifices some to pick up some survivability talents.  A dead/stunned/silenced/feared healer isn't very useful.

 Healadin Huzzah!

[Montague]

Since we're looking at, "How am I doing," I'm posting my build up for view.  I'm going after a hybrid of healer for both PvP and Raids.  I need to do some cleanup of gems and have a few more items to upgrade (to a reasonable level, speaking PvE wise.)  I'm still working on honor, marks, and arena points for more PvP gear and getting an occasional upgrade from Karazhan right now.

My talents go mostly for healer, but sacrifices some to pick up some survivability talents.  A dead/stunned/silenced/feared healer isn't very useful.

 Healadin Huzzah!

Go 3/3 Righteous Fury for PVP. Imp Shield Spec is only really useful if you're tanking.

The last that I had heard, Imp. Concentration Aura is bugged, and the silence reduction component isn't working like it should, making it nearly useless. With Conc Aura plus Spiritual Focus you'll be 100% resistant to pushback as it is.

If you are going to be healing in raids, Light's Grace is a must. I would throw the Imp Conc Aura points into Light's Grace, and move the Shield Spec points into Imp Righteous Fury and the last point into Toughness.

[Dren]

I think I have to agree with you on your talent change suggestions Mont.  I have noticed that my Aura isn't really doing what it should be.  Fears, silences, etc. don't seem to last any shorter.  I do use the aura almost always because impacts and damage do not stop me from healing AT ALL.

The damage reduction of RF would be nice to go whole hog.  I really sacrificed Light's Grace because I was spending more time PvP'ing and thought the Conc Aura improvement was going to be amazing.  It isn't, so I'll go back.

Now I have to do some more dailies just to afford yet another respec...  I'm pretty sure I'm up to 50 g now.

[Merusk]

I use imp. concentration in PvP not for myself,  but for my caster buddies.  They say it works well for them, so I trust 'em.  Plus, it's not like any of the other auras are really in the 'uber useful' category.

[Dren]

I use imp. concentration in PvP not for myself,  but for my caster buddies.  They say it works well for them, so I trust 'em.  Plus, it's not like any of the other auras are really in the 'uber useful' category.

No no, I will still be using the aura.  Imp. Aura doesn't make spell interruption any better though.  It is supposed to reduce the duration of fear, stuns, cyclone, etc.  It doesn't though.  So, no reason to waste the points on it.

I use it and crusader, nothing else.  Crusader to get from place to place faster, and Concentration to be able to cast heal without being interrupted at all (100% along with my other healing talent.)  I wanted Imp. Conc. Aura because I'm still very susceptable to stuns, fears, etc. and those are typically the death of me.

[Montague]

I use imp. concentration in PvP not for myself,  but for my caster buddies.  They say it works well for them, so I trust 'em.  Plus, it's not like any of the other auras are really in the 'uber useful' category.

No no, I will still be using the aura.  Imp. Aura doesn't make spell interruption any better though.  It is supposed to reduce the duration of fear, stuns, cyclone, etc.  It doesn't though.  So, no reason to waste the points on it.

I use it and crusader, nothing else.  Crusader to get from place to place faster, and Concentration to be able to cast heal without being interrupted at all (100% along with my other healing talent.)  I wanted Imp. Conc. Aura because I'm still very susceptable to stuns, fears, etc. and those are typically the death of me.

It's been my contention for a long time that paladins should have some sort of temporary fear immunity for both lore and gameplay reasons. Holy - Fears when your trinket is down are devastating. Not only are you interrupted, but you're likely thrown out of range, have to run back and then stop for 3 seconds to cast a significant heal. Prot - Warriors get berserker rage. Yeah it's a pain to stance dance but they have it. Ret - Has to be in melee range to deal damage. Warriors have BR and Death Wish,  Rogues get Cloak of Skill, Enhance Shamans get tremor totem(yeah it sucks, but still). Ret paladins are the only melee damage class without a fear counter.

Of course lore-wise in most fantasy game genres paladins are immune to fear to begin with. 

[Zetor]

Pallies do get fear resistance from a talent, but it's only 10%.

A permanent fear immunity would be a bit much, but I wouldn't mind attaching a fear immunity to Avenging Wrath, or even Righteous Fury [would need to be dispelled in order to get rid of the fear immunity, since reapplying it costs a good amount of mana].

Anyway, when I played my pally as a healer [at 60, so things might've changed], I switched between concentration and resist auras a lot. Shadow Res aura actually provided some decent fear resistance. No idea how it is nowadays, though.


-- Z.

[WindupAtheist]

The insanely disproportionate "AH value of current-level cloth to general current-level income" ratio has long since leveled off, and so now I'm mowing down ogres in Tanaris for mageweave to make into bandages.  When someone is questing, I whisper them to let them know that I'm just farming cloth and will stay out of their way.  Usually they offer to let me keep all the cloth if I'll group with them, since I'm 61 now, so I do that.

I don't regret putting first aid on hold.  Five gold per stack of mageweave had me living in fat city in my forties.

[Montague]

The insanely disproportionate "AH value of current-level cloth to general current-level income" ratio has long since leveled off, and so now I'm mowing down ogres in Tanaris for mageweave to make into bandages.  When someone is questing, I whisper them to let them know that I'm just farming cloth and will stay out of their way.  Usually they offer to let me keep all the cloth if I'll group with them, since I'm 61 now, so I do that.

I don't regret putting first aid on hold.  Five gold per stack of mageweave had me living in fat city in my forties.

You get your piss-cloud mount yet or what?

[Chimpy]

I'm looking at going with this for my final hunter talents.

I love Beast Mastery, and I never pass up Hawk Eye.  Any suggestions in polishing this build for endgame?

Of course, I'm still a long ways off.  These days I'm focusing on raising up my fishing/cooking/first aid/mining/engineering.  I'm a professions whore.

Sorry for the semi-necro response to this:

Couple of quick things I would change if you want max PvE dps:

Drop spirit bond, take one point off frenzy (4/5 keeps it up constantly for all intents and purposes if you have trained cobra reflexes on the pet), move the 1 point in thick hide to endurance training. Take any points you dropped into mortal shots.

I don't use hawk eye anymore since I run 41/20 and have not seen a pressing need for it on any fights I have done. Rapid killing is a nice talent that I use simply to lower the CD on rapid to 3 minutes. Rapid+AP trinket+BW = some damn nice burst, esp if imp AotH procs, and that gives you the RF on every other use if you use it religiously every 2 mins.

The outdoor movement speed buff I find to be dump-worthy for PvE dps simply because the pet is rarely running after shit outdoors.

The only pet I have had where I noticed not having bestial discipline to be a problem was with wind serpents due to the high focus cost of lightning breath. But I agree that in a perfect world, it is a good synergy to have both.

[Tale]

So how am I doing?

In the grand scheme of WoW progression, you're still on the first stone of the Great Pyramid. For many people, levelling was a brief inconvenience before the raiding and/or PvP teams game took all their time. But for many more people, levelling to 70 will be the entire WoW experience. Go on, you want to be one of them, climb the pyramid, see what it's really like. Don't you? Feel the pull of Diku!

[WindupAtheist]

My "endgame" is probably going to be leveling a spacegoat shammy.

[WindupAtheist]

You get your piss-cloud mount yet or what?

I've come to decide I just don't care that much, and have more or less forgotten about it.  I can never work up enough interest to go plead for a group for some dead-ass abandoned instance.  I'll buy the regular epic at some point when I have the dough, otherwise I don't care.

[Phred]

You get your piss-cloud mount yet or what?

I've come to decide I just don't care that much, and have more or less forgotten about it.  I can never work up enough interest to go plead for a group for some dead-ass abandoned instance.  I'll buy the regular epic at some point when I have the dough, otherwise I don't care.

I did the same thing with my pally alt. Didnt feel like bugging friends to help with the dumb ass quest so I just bought him a normal epic horse. Not really that much more expensive than all the $$ you have to lay out to get the items for the mount quest anyway.

[Fordel]

When/If you reach 70, you can actually solo the paladin mount quest if you ever want it.

[Phred]

When/If you reach 70, you can actually solo the paladin mount quest if you ever want it.

Pretty hard to put up with a weak-ass ride all the way to 70 though.