I Got Blowed Up: Trials and Tribulations of Eve Newbiedom

[Murgos]

Just wanted to have a thread for us Eve nooblers to comment on the latest Faux Pax we've committed so as to, hopefully, keep others from doing the same mistake(s).

I am going to stay vague about locations and some other details though, because, war and stuff.

I've been flying a Vexor (Gallente Cruiser) for about a week now and it's a very robust ship.  Lot's of room for drones and guns and other fun things.  Being that it is a cruiser and I still only have access to lvl 1 missions I've been getting a little bored.  What I mean is doing lvl 1 kill missions in a cruiser is pathetically easy, i.e. warp in, launch drones, target rats, watch drones kill rats faster than I can get new targets.

So, I went looking for Deadspace Agents and nearby Deadspace Complexes.  Found a couple too, if you don't know level 1 complexes can only be done in Frigates, level 2's can be done in Destroyer or below, and 3's in cruiser and below and etc..

I found an agent who gave me a mission to go into the complex one system over for a sweet little ~400k ISK reward, including the time bonus.  I didn't think it could be that hard because the missions I had been doing were in the 250+ range anyway and those were cake and this is in a .6 security system so how hard could it be?  So I warp my Vexor over and hit the acceleration gate and pop into the complex.

Which is full of rats.  Probably close to 30 in the first room all told.  I don't see anything that looks like a rat in a cruiser so I figure I am pretty safe and launch my drones and send them after the first clump of 6 or 7 targets.  I sit way back, maybe 50km and direct the fight, unfortunately I lose 2 during the melee.  They are tier 1 light scout drones (Warrior I's) and they only cost about 3k a piece and the rats I just killed have bounties of 8.5k apiece so no big loss really, not even counting phat lewts or mission rewards even.  Plus, I have more in my drone bay for just such a reason.

I replenish my drone 'wing' and head over for the next group.  But this time I'm thinking I will try and conserve my drones a bit by tanking the rats while they kill them.  I target a nice pread of rats and fire off a couple rounds from the ol' hybrid guns to get their attention...  and about 10 rats beeline for me.  After a little bit I notice that I'm done to armor and I've only killed 1 rat.  Start up the armor repper and keep going.  A couple of more rats and my armor is going down faster than I can repair it so I decide to leave and come back.  Issue the return to bay order to my drones and pick a 'warp to' location.

Hmm, nothing happened.  Try and warp again and see the nice little message about being Scrambled.  Doh, afterburner and head off for the distance, maybe I can outrun some of these or they have an aggro radius and I can shake em?

I'm sure you can see where this is going.  Well, with platinum insurance I'm out about 1.5 mil to replace the Vexor and it's fittings and for what?  A couple of k in easily replaced drones.

Lessons learned:

1. $Drones << $Cruiser, even if I have to warp out to replace them.
2. Take the time to fit rat specific resists even if it means a little more upfront cash and time.
3. Train tanking skills ASAP

[Morat20]

Basic strategy with a Vexxor:
1) Load up 5 light scouts, 5 medium scouts. (Have GOOD drone skills or don't fly a Vexxor).
2) Be set for heavy armor tanking -- armor plate, EANM, medium repper, and have the skills to use them well.
3) Piss off enemies.
4) THEN launch drones -- scouts for frigs/destroyers, mediums for cruisers. Have all 5 target the same thing.
5) Warriors are probably the wrong drones -- they're fastest, but don't hit hard. Hammerheads work pretty well -- more bang, and if your drones are killing stuff faster than you can target, travel time isn't really a problem.

Flying a Vex, your job in PvE is to basically armor tank while your drones kill everything. Since everything pops drones pretty fast, you want them all aggroed on you. So you were doing it right -- armor tanking the damage while your drones did the killing. Your skills and fitting probably just weren't there yet to face that many rats.

In L2s, you really won't need rat-specific resists. (I get by just fine with EANM and Damage Controls -- but I also have Mechanic V, fit 1600mm plate, and run a T2 Medium repper. And my light scout drones pop cruisers without breaking a sweat). L4's, I've been told, don't really require rat-specific resists if you're good with a Domi -- but I wouldn't care to try it, not when fitting rat-specific resists is so cheap.

Besides the Warrior I's, what other drones were you carrying? And what's your fitting?

[Murgos]

I was carrying 5 mediums (Hammerhead I's?) and 10 Warriors.  I was fitted with 400mm plate, Damage Control I and two small reppers in lows  (I'll train the points I need for 800mm armor and EANM tonight).  Med was afterburner I, web and scrambler (not that I was planning to tackle anything but I was thinking I might come across a war target and not want him to get away).  Highs were 4x125mm scouts and 1 empty.

[Morat20]

I was carrying 5 mediums (Hammerhead I's?) and 10 Warriors.  I was fitted with 400mm plate, Damage Control I and two small reppers in lows  (I'll train the points I need for 800mm armor and EANM tonight).  Med was afterburner I, web and scrambler (not that I was planning to tackle anything but I was thinking I might come across a war target and not want him to get away).  Highs were 4x125mm scouts and 1 empty.

Hmm. Depends on your skills there, but it sounds like you'd run low on cap pretty quick if your guns are firing -- especially running two small reppers (even more so if you don't have the cap reducing skills there). Fitting gets iffy once you move to 800mm or bigger on a cruiser, even if your grid and cpu stuff is maxed out. You could probably stick a small nos in the last slot, or a small remote armor repper (nice to repair drones between waves).

EANM helps a lot -- really ups armor resistances and that's better than a repper. It's damage you don't take. Still, that's a workable setup as long as you're not firing all guns AND running both reppers. I'd stick a cap recharger in the middle and ditch the web.

Really sounds like you got swarmed, and your drone skills weren't enough to pop them fast enough AND your support skills just weren't there yet.

As for guns, you just need to fire once and piss them off so they hit you, not your drones!

Once you get the basics down (can fit the EANM, 800mm  and run a good armor tank) work on your drone skills -- you need Drones to 5/5, and DI as high as you can get it -- 4/5 at least. It's simply too good a skill NOT to have if you want to use drones. Drone Navigation, Drone Sharpshooting, Scout Drone Operation -- all good skills.

Most of that well help with everything. Almost everything Gallente armor tanks, and drones are a lovely "fire and forget" extra bit of DPS (they suck BALLS in large fleet operations, though, because of the lag -- but small gang stuff and missioning they're great. You want to move to T2's when you can -- they hit like they're a size larger and are much tougher).

[Murgos]

Drone skills (611,332):

Drones V
Scout Drone Op IV
Drone Sharpshooting IV
Done Navigation V
Drone Interfacing II
Drone Durability I
Combat Drone Op I

I'll train DI more after I work up the armor and cap skills a bit.

[bhodi]

I learned this lesson early -- kill the fuckers that warp scramble and web. Kill them dead, primary them, whatever it takes. Unfortunately warp scrambling is not an obvious graphic; sometimes I can see them, sometimes I have to research (www.eve-survival.org) which ones are scramblers.

[Morat20]

Drone skills (611,332):

Drones V
Scout Drone Op IV
Drone Sharpshooting IV
Done Navigation V
Drone Interfacing II
Drone Durability I
Combat Drone Op I

I'll train DI more after I work up the armor and cap skills a bit.

Not bad at all -- DI needs to be your next priority (20% across the board? Go that!), and durability and Combat Drones need to go to 3/5 at least. Get Gallente Cruiser to 3/5 (or close) for the boost to your drones and medium turrets. Do that, get the "Cruiser gets aggro, not drones" bit down, and you should be fine.

Upgrade to T2 light scouts as soon as you can -- the damage difference is just huge.

A cruiser is a pretty light loss (not that I'd want to lose mine either!) and your basic skills seem pretty close to being able to effortless do L2s.

About the only other thing I would suggest would be to train Connections, and any other social skill that offers a boost to standings with friendly corps. A single rank or two of connections will open up L2s for you, and improve the effective quality of your agents -- but make sure you can survive first. :)

Bhodi: Got to be careful. Sometimes those guys trigger the next wave.

[IainC]

Mostly what Morat said regarding tactics. I run in a very similar vein to you - just in a Domi on L4s. I have railguns fitted for stand off combat and I rely on drones (Ogre IIs in my case) for the majority of my DPS. The thing to do is to isolate groups of rats - often the NPCs are arranged into loose 'wings' and if you aggro one, you'll gt them all after you like a swarm of bees. When this happens the trick is to prioritise your targets - go for web/scrambling ships first, then jamming vessels, then the rest.

Don't send drones out to kill stuff that you haven't got aggro on first unless they can pop it with their alpha strike and aren't going to get aggro from nearby NPCs. It's not such a big deal now when you use 3k drones, but believe me replacing a rack of Hammerhead IIs will make you cry.

Gallente drones - Hobgoblins and Hammerheads are normally the best for PvE due to the fact they do thermal damage - which all NPCs are weak to. As a Vexxor has a nice big dronebay I'd carry 5 of each with a few spares. Use hobgoblins against very fast targets like small rogue drones and hobgoblins against everything else.

For PvE then resists trump raw armour almost every time. Plate has very high fitting costs so stuff like  damage control, EANM, rat specific active hardeners etc will be more effective and leave you more powergrid for other stuff. If you desperately want more armour HP then consider a regenerative plate which gives a percentage bonus to HP - 12-15% typically. On small ships with low armour values it isn't worth it but when you start getting to cruiser or BC sized vessels then it becomes a more attractive proposition. I fly a Domi with no armour plate but 80%+ resists on the rat specific types and 65%+ on the others. I can handle a lot of aggro at once with only one repper - which often isn't even running.

Two final useful tips for drones. Consider training up the skills for armour repair drones. If you have the space to carry a few, you can use them to repair your other drones in the field. Secondly, train the Ewar drones skill even if you don't intend to use ewar drones. Each level adds 3km to your drone control range for all drones.

[Murgos]

Ok, refitted (Wallet is down to a slim 6.8m after insurance  )

I'm not quite where everyone here suggested but I'm moderately happy with this fit

LOW:

DC I
EBANP (14% to all)
1600 mm crystal carbon plates
Small Repper II

For an infinite tank and 16pts repair per second and resists of 70% EM, 33% exp, 50% kin, 50% therm and an effective tank of ~18000.  In a few days I should be able to do EANM II and DC II for more resists if I feel comfortable spending that kind of money.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Also, DEMONICUS 666 caught me as I undocked in Jita and went afk for a drink (speaking of newb mistakes).  I got back in time to dock again.  So, this fit has paid off already

[Viin]

Also, DEMONICUS 666 caught me as I undocked in Jita and went afk for a drink (speaking of newb mistakes).  I got back in time to dock again.  So, this fit has paid off already

Heh, lucky catch.

[Murgos]

Also went back to the Complex that popped me earlier and cleaned house.  Never got more than a sliver into armor, never was in danger of running out of cap and didn't even get a scratch on any of my drones.

Good stuff.

[Morat20]

Also went back to the Complex that popped me earlier and cleaned house.  Never got more than a sliver into armor, never was in danger of running out of cap and didn't even get a scratch on any of my drones.

Good stuff.

Sadly, it gets boring after awhile. *grin*. Wait until you're running the Blockade mission and you're trying to pop the trigger spawn first because you'd like to finish the mission as quickly as possible.

[nurtsi]

Don't fly a carrier without proper support fleet.

We've had our first carrier for maybe a week or so. We've recently moved to lowsec for better mining etc. Last night, one hostile enters our home system and attacks a miner in an ice belt. Three of our ships warp in and proceed to scramble and attack him. Turns out the hostile flies a heavy interdictor and we can't really break his tank. Our carrier pilot is in the system and has been setting up a POS for us. He decides to join the battle and warps to the ice belt. We've got the dictor pinned down and his going down pretty fast with the fighters.

Another hostile pops up in local. Another heavy interdictor warps in to the ice belt and proceeds to scramble our carrier. We think wtf is he doing? He should be running to momma with our capital in the system. The first HIC goes down and we proceed to kill the second. Third hostile in shows up in local. More stuff for us to kill.

Suddenly a cyno opens next to the our carrier and we get jumped by three hostile carriers and three dreads. Some smaller ships come through the gate. We die. 1,5b in losses

[bhodi]

Our carrier pilot is in the system and has been setting up a POS for us. He decides to join the battle and warps to the ice belt.

I thought you could send fighters in-system and not even be on the grid?

[nurtsi]

I thought you could send fighters in-system and not even be on the grid?

You can.

[5150]

I thought you could send fighters in-system and not even be on the grid?

You can.

Sounds like someone wanted to be on a killmail and thought they had the biggest fish...

..but ended up on a loss mail

In some cases I'm convinced carriers (not so much dreads) suffer from the same problem of people getting into them before they can properly fit them (especially given the amount of training needed to just get in one people are more likely to hop in it asap) then when you add in the fact that alot of people train then [at least initially] just to be used as a jump freighter its much less likely the pilot is going to have all the needed skills