The Internet vs Scientology

[Dtrain]

Paelos, why do you have to be such a negative nancy? Keep that up and you'll be branded as an SP and confined for muzzled destimulation.

[Paelos]

Paelos, why do you have to be such a negative nancy? Keep that up and you'll be branded as an SP and confined for muzzled destimulation.

I just don't see the need for a public demonstration yet. You're the internet for god's sake, your strength lies in anonymity and information warfare. Bringing it to the streets isn't effective in forwarding the message unless THOUSANDS show up, which I don't see happening.

I'd love to be wrong, and I'd love to watch Scientology choke on the collective outcry that their brand of hatred and greed has created. I wouldn't put betting money on it though.

[Dtrain]

Believe it or not, the world is not the internet. I sometimes lose sight of this fact myself being an IT professional and spending most of my recreation time on activities that involve the tubes. If the internet really changed anything, Ron Paul would be more than a painful politial joke.

I'd say this is exactly the time for a real demonstration. Keeping this thing on the internet is exactly what they need to not do - it's a battle that is already won. Any non-scientologist can get any info they want on the cult while Scientologists themselves employ software on their computers to block out certain sites. Couple that with the extensive internet coverage this has already received, and I don't see what else there is to accomplish here.

If a few goobers with a badly made sign can get this kind of attention, what do you think that a well planned international protest will get?

It's time for this to go large, nationwide, worldwide - to get on the local news in every bumblefuck town cursed with a scientology church. Most of the people this will reach don't have any idea what scientology is beyond the association with Tom Cruise, and that is the potential for largest gain here.

[Abagadro]

I recently read that Nancy Cartwright (aka Bart Simpson) just gave 10 million dollars to CoS.

[Ironwood]

What ?


Fuck Me


WHY ?

[Abagadro]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=23858

[Ironwood]

Too late.  Found it.

[Paelos]

She's just a voice on the show so I won't get that upset over it, but seriously, fuck that chick. If it was someone like Groening, I'd be pissed, because The Simpsons is honestly one of my favorite shows and I'd hate to put it on my ban list.

[schild]

Paelos, that kind of apathy is the reason scientology got to where it is today.

[Tebonas]

I'll watch the Simpsons in german from now on. That will show her!

What is it with the Hollywood crowd and Scientology anyway? Drinkwater problems or people being hit with the retard stick once they enter city limits?

Forget I asked. Attention whores and a 'religion' that tells them they can be godlike creatures if they just give enough money. A match made in heaven.

[Der Helm]

A match made in heaven  .

[Tebonas]

I actually mean the heaven, or even beyond that. In spaceships. With closets. Where Tom Cruise can hide in from those evil unbelievers and strange horny women.

[Dtrain]

We're still not exactly sure WHY Tom Cruise is in the closet, but I'm being joined now by singer/songwriter R. Kelly...

[Paelos]

Paelos, that kind of apathy is the reason scientology got to where it is today.

Man, you can cram that shit with walnuts.

I boycott any movie that fronts a Scientologist or any TV shows written or produced by Scientologists, but I won't boycott one of the two non-reality shows I watch because one cast member lost their mind. I won't punish people like Groening, Brooks, Simon, Azaria, Castenalleta, Kavner, Smith, and Shearer who all have done fantastic work as well as the writing staff who have no ties to the craziness. You have to draw a line somewhere because if you start boycotting entertainment for having one Scientologist on the panel in any form, you'll never watch anything. I will howerver boycott any of her producing projects, books, signings, or any organization to which she participates directly with.

[schild]

This isn't about boycotting movies.

This is about protests. I couldn't care less if you watch the movies or not. But the time has come to tear down the church and with their lawyers, anonymous is the best group for that.

[Paelos]

This isn't about boycotting movies.

This is about protests. I couldn't care less if you watch the movies or not. But the time has come to tear down the church and with their lawyers, anonymous is the best group for that.

And I think you're insane. I don't see a mass protest doing diddly-shit. The only people that can destroy this church is a full-on government investigation that uncovers RICO-like activities, should they exist. Anonymous can only make a difference if they can hack into the back files, do corporate espionage that uncovers fraudulant financial documents, and then, the IRS gets involved by revoking their tax-free status and nailing them to the wall over their tax evasion. The church will crumble because you went after the money.

NOT because of a bunch of idiots took it to the streets. You hurt this church through their wallets and financials, not the public perception. They already know Scientology is stupid and nuts.

[Jain Zar]

^^^ Actually not enough do.

Shit, people have hardly any idea of what their own governments are doing and even given the horseshit Fox News spews and how pussy most news outlets are, plenty of that info is easily obtained with little to no effort.

You expect them to know what a cult is up to?

[Ironwood]

You make me laugh thinking you can hit this thing in the wallet when ONE MEMBER is kicking in 10 mill.

I'm still fucking angry about that.  How many homeless would that help ?

[Dtrain]

Where do you think government investigations come from? Lobbying from well funded special interest groups. Public outrage.

Don't be a self hating nerd. These protests can mean something and will bring this wacko megalomaniacal cult of lying fruitsacks into the harsh light of public attention.

Some apathy is only to be expected: the media is going to report this initially as "Hey, look at these internet hackers! What a crazy thing to do!!! OH LAWD YOU HACKERS!" But with worldwide protests it will become something else entirely regardless of what the media does with it.

Don't underestimate the intelligence of the common populace. They may be comfortable and warm with a lack of real challenges in their lives, but if they are confronted with a dramatic vision of Guy Fawkes protesters around the world they're going to start asking some questions, and might actually turn on their computer and do a search for scientology.

After ignoring the official site (because they will want the real dirt,) they'll hit wikipedia or clambake and get all they were hoping for and more.

Those who already had strong feelings against scientology and thought they were alone (of which there are many,) will be validated.

Those who thought it was some kind of funny joke may discover something else.

But how else do you propose the bulk of society gets on board with this? And how do you think real change is going to happen without them?

Fake-Edit: Also, you can hurt them financially. You can get their taxable status as a religion reversed. You can bet they're still having a circle jerk over the fact that they pulled another one over on the government on that account.

[Paelos]

You make me laugh thinking you can hit this thing in the wallet when ONE MEMBER is kicking in 10 mill.

I'm still fucking angry about that.  How many homeless would that help ?

Get the tax exempt status revoked, and get the real copies of their financials. You follow the money up to the top in those disbursements. If they are actually a huge money-laundering service, it would be very easy to spot by any forensic accountant. The top people get indicted for massive fraud and tax evasion, and they probably get brought up on RICO charges. They go to jail and the church crumbles when the filtering is brought to light.

It doesn't matter how much comes in. What you have to prove is where it's going, and that will hang them all. The infiltration into the IRS is the only reason these people haven't been looked at close enough already.

[Shavnir]

L Ron Hubbard himself was tried for fraud shortly before his death.  He died a fugitive.

[Dtrain]

L. Ron Hubbard was trained by a Native American shaman named "Old Joe" and was an honorary blood brother of the Blackfoot. He also studied under Chineese and Indian mystics. He graduated college with honors, and did important work on atomic theory. He was also a WW2 hero.

Except... the Blackfoot tribe has no such thing as a "blood brother" ceremony. While young L. Ron did visit China as a teen, the only thing he apparently learned was to complain about "chinks" in his diary. The only time he visited India was on a flight layover. He flunked out of school. And he was relieved of his command after lying about a Japanese sub he supposedly engaged in battle off the coast of Oregon, and creating an international incident by engaging in target practice in Mexican waters.

I swear, it's like reading the life story about that chronic liar kid in high school that was never quite comfortable in his own skin, so he lied about everything. Except that kid made a religion and people actually believe it. Doesn't it just make you  with righteous indignation?

Maybe the L. stands for LIAR.

His wikipedia entry is a good read if you like exposing charlatans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

[Samprimary]

Read this.

Seriously.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

[Dtrain]

Read this.

Seriously.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

WAHAHAHA:

In kindergarten, little Ron was defending his neighbors and classmates from bullies twice his age by using a form of judo his grandfather called "lumberjack fighting."

Lumberjack Fighter 2: The Thetan Warrior

[schild]

Don't you mean Thetan Boogaloo?

[Dtrain]

I notice the end of that rotten article (excellent btw,) referenced Marshall Applewhite.

True story: While going to school I worked in a Radio Shack located in a San Diego suburb. This was like 95 or 96. Sometimes your regulars were weird people - Beardy McFatsmelly was my least favorite. Other times you just got a single shot of weirdness, like the 50 year old lady calmly doing her shopping while wearing a cat in the hat hat.

One of these one off weirdos was an old man wearing sweatpants who walked in and planted himself near the TV - not really watching it, but engaging anyone passing by in conversation. Not long conversations, mind you, as he seemed to be driving people out of my store.

I finished helping the customers who had been waiting for me, and addressed him briskly, "Is there anything I can help you with?" by which I meant "Buy something or leave." At which point he proceeds to tell me that the lions killing zebras on the discovery channel (which was playing on the TV) are evil. And they're like people that are evil too. Wishing to have no truck with this nonsense I responded, "I never really thought of that. So were you looking to buy something?"

He wandered out again soon afterwards. I guess I was like one of those lions and he was some kind of ball-less zebra, for just a couple years afterwards the heaven's gate thing happened, and that old man was of course Marshall Applewhite which I put together while watching the news coverage.

(P.S. I don't care what they call it, but someone needs to make a fighting game featuring L. Ron Hubbard engaging you with Lumberjack Fighting. After he wins he can taunt you with clever sayings like "Haha! Was my thetan too much for you?", "The first incident happened eleventynine quadrillion years ago... when I kicked your ass!" and "You must defeat my lumberjack chop to stand a chance!")

[Llava]

You hurt this church through their wallets and financials, not the public perception. They already know Scientology is stupid and nuts.

Wrong.

I had to personally educate both of my parents on the brutal insanity of Scientology.  My dad had already decided they were crazy, my mom didn't think they were any more out there or dangerous than someone like Ramtha- New Age silliness, but harmless and generally teaching good lessons even if making a bit of a profit from it.

I told them all about Xenu, Project Freakout and Project Snow White.

I halfway suspect that my mom would be receiving Scientology pamphlets in the mail had I not brought these things to her attention.

And both of my parents are slightly more well-informed and educated than your average American.  They know their politics- I may not agree with them, but they know them.

[Paelos]

I don't want to be a dick about it, but your sample size sucks Llava. I'll go further, I care fuckall about the public perception personally. Assume you're an internet renegade attacking force taking something down. Go with your strengths. Use the best source of global information to put out useful information that might have an effect. Don't try to organize boring protests in the streets. That's the way our parents did it.

Infiltrate, hack, and inform. Send incriminating documents to the governement and post them globally. Take the machine down from the inside out while maintaining your anonymity.

[Dtrain]

Paelos, I'm not sure you understand that the powers of the internet pretty much end within the confines of the TCP/IP stack. Anonymous is not able to flex and bend the matrix around them.

[schild]

If Neo were real, he'd be a /b/tard.

[Paelos]

Paelos, I'm not sure you understand that the powers of the internet pretty much end within the confines of the TCP/IP stack. Anonymous is not able to flex and bend the matrix around them.

You sure about that?

I'm not against using the populace to prove a point. My point was that if you want to exert your influence on the masses, it takes nothing more than a message and the egomania to proclaim it as truth. That's how Scientology got where it was. If the truth is there, it's buried deep in the recesses of their own organization.

My point was to line up your soldiers and send them into the beast, not randomly try to amass the people in a show of solidarity. You recruit people to join the cause to take it down from the inside. Find the dirt rather than protesting the supposed injustices.

[schild]

You don't send the soldiers in until diplomacy fails.

See, you want to see it mimic the crusades. Maybe you want to see both sides destroyed.

But really, if it comes to infiltration and destruction, anonymous would Go there is necessary. Right now, that's not an option. They need to exhaust all peaceful approaches first. And what's the first peaceful approach you can think of? Petition and protest. They're doing it right. You want them to do it...wrong...ly(?).

Anyway, point is, work from the bottom to the top. Don't jump into an empty pool head first.

More importantly, make the public side with you when the illegal wiretapping begins.

Edit: Using DDoS, Black Faxes, and random evil to make the media notice was a masterful stroke of brilliance.

[Paelos]

The movement lost it's edge when it went public. Don't go public unless you've got the goods. What exactly are they protesting with? They have nothing but speculation and conjucture. It's TOO EARLY.

[Phildo]

You mean aside from facts like Scientology being responsible for the largest infiltration of the US government ever?

[schild]

Or the deaths known and unknown? Or the fact they ARE For-Profit and operate as a religion?

Paelos, of all people, you should be the most on board. These people tarnish all organized religion, not just their own.