InstantAction - Garage Games

[Aez]

Nice.  I dunno if I'm representative of any market but I've been dying to throw my money at MTGO but apparently WoTC doesn't want my money.
 


Ask your smart and wealthy guys if they want mine.

[schild]

The Community Managers name is Dr. Wiley?

Is this a joke, plz say it's a joke.

[Stephen Zepp]

The Community Managers name is Dr. Wiley?

Is this a joke, plz say it's a joke.

Actually, no, it's not--his real name is James Wiley, so it was a pretty obvious tie in :P

Btw, shacknews just posted a short preview: Fallen Empire: Legions Hands-on Impressions, with a new marketing trailer. There are quite a few full on gameplay videos scattered around the 'net, let me know if anyone is interested but can't find any recent ones.

[LC]

I loved tribes 1&2. In fact they are my two favorite fps of all time. I just don't see this one working well as a browser game. I have yet to see a 3d browser game that didn't suck to be honest. Not to mention the lack of dedicated servers at launch isn't going to go over well with the average fps player. Who is going to want to play 4v4 games on some guys home connection only to get dropped after 10 mins because he has a cheap wireless router?

I will still try to get into open beta, but my expectations are low.

[Stephen Zepp]

I loved tribes 1&2. In fact they are my two favorite fps of all time. I just don't see this one working well as a browser game. I have yet to see a 3d browser game that didn't suck to be honest. Not to mention the lack of dedicated servers at launch isn't going to go over well with the average fps player. Who is going to want to play 4v4 games on some guys home connection only to get dropped after 10 mins because he has a cheap wireless router?

I will still try to get into open beta, but my expectations are low.

the "browser" thing:

--do you use Live MarketPlace on the 360, or any other game browsing/social networking service? In a nutshell, that's all InstantAction is--just on your PC, using a browser to deliver the content. The games themselves are still created and run with game engines (mostly Torque to this point, although there are several in the pipeline that are not made with Torque), which uses a browser as a window handle to render within.

It's not Java (although parts of the web interface are), it's not Flash--Legions uses a descendant of the original Tribes engine.

--Legions already has full screen capability. If you don't like having a browser interface, then go full screen :)

--dedicated servers are already in internal/alpha testing.

[Pennilenko]

I loved tribes 1&2. In fact they are my two favorite fps of all time. I just don't see this one working well as a browser game. I have yet to see a 3d browser game that didn't suck to be honest. Not to mention the lack of dedicated servers at launch isn't going to go over well with the average fps player. Who is going to want to play 4v4 games on some guys home connection only to get dropped after 10 mins because he has a cheap wireless router?

I will still try to get into open beta, but my expectations are low.

the "browser" thing:

--do you use Live MarketPlace on the 360, or any other game browsing/social networking service? In a nutshell, that's all InstantAction is--just on your PC, using a browser to deliver the content. The games themselves are still created and run with game engines (mostly Torque to this point, although there are several in the pipeline that are not made with Torque), which uses a browser as a window handle to render within.

It's not Java (although parts of the web interface are), it's not Flash--Legions uses a descendant of the original Tribes engine.

--Legions already has full screen capability. If you don't like having a browser interface, then go full screen :)

--dedicated servers are already in internal/alpha testing.

Fricken Hardcore.......very stoked.

[LC]

the "browser" thing:

--do you use Live MarketPlace on the 360, or any other game browsing/social networking service? In a nutshell, that's all InstantAction is--just on your PC, using a browser to deliver the content. The games themselves are still created and run with game engines (mostly Torque to this point, although there are several in the pipeline that are not made with Torque), which uses a browser as a window handle to render within.

It's not Java (although parts of the web interface are), it's not Flash--Legions uses a descendant of the original Tribes engine.

--Legions already has full screen capability. If you don't like having a browser interface, then go full screen :)

--dedicated servers are already in internal/alpha testing.

No I hate all of those. I don't like fancy portals, or socializing with random losers. I just want to pick a server and kill people as fast as possible,

I really hope this game delivers. If it's anything like the tribes experience I would buy it in a minute. I signed up for the beta, but got a reply telling me that I probably wont get in. I never got into any of the tribes betas despite signing up for all of them.

[Fordel]

Finally found this post!


So I tried out the Legions game today. Man, that takes me back! It's totally "Tribes The TravelGame Version." I am simply amazed you managed to put that quality of a product straight into my browser.


Now if you could do something to make my team a little bit better 

[Stephen Zepp]

Finally found this post!


So I tried out the Legions game today. Man, that takes me back! It's totally "Tribes The TravelGame Version." I am simply amazed you managed to put that quality of a product straight into my browser.


Now if you could do something to make my team a little bit better 

Thanks :)

For those that haven't heard, Fallen Empire: Legions went open beta today--free play for all :) It is a true open beta (see my previous threads on what a beta should be, so expect rough edges, but it's coming along very nicely.

[Margalis]

I would try it out but at this very second I am attempting to get bscmake.exe to be called directly so I can build a Torque Game Engine Advance demo...grumble grumble..

Stephen, I would suggest taht GG clarify all the different engines. You guys have a lot and it's hard to tell them apart. You have detailed comparisons but that doesn't really get at the problem so well. Also different parts of documentation say different things about the differences.

My understanding is that TGEA is a partial port or Torque with support for modern GPUs. Correct?

[Stephen Zepp]

I would try it out but at this very second I am attempting to get bscmake.exe to be called directly so I can build a Torque Game Engine Advance demo...grumble grumble..

Stephen, I would suggest taht GG clarify all the different engines. You guys have a lot and it's hard to tell them apart. You have detailed comparisons but that doesn't really get at the problem so well. Also different parts of documentation say different things about the differences.

My understanding is that TGEA is a partial port or Torque with support for modern GPUs. Correct?

Correct..TGEA is effectively Torque, with the entire rendering system re-wired for modern GPU's (shaders, render batches, etc. etc.). There are literally hundreds of other features that are only in TGEA, but at the root that's the difference.

It us currently Windows only, so I'm betting that your issue is OS compatibility--sounds like a linux or Mac OS attempt? For Windows, it is literally a 5 minute setup tops (unless you do not have VS 2005/2008 and the required DirectX development libs installed, which can take a bit of download time).

It does sound as if you missed the documentation link in your Start->Programs->TGEA 1.7.x (1.7.1 is most current as of last week) drop down--there is a Getting Started page that should cover everything you need.

[Fordel]

I'm not sure if it's my imagination, or what, but it seems like if you are the host for a game, you have a substantial advantage. I seem to be able to get way more mid-air hits and can time my ski runs better. Also, A+ for adding DOWN thrust 

[Stephen Zepp]

I'm not sure if it's my imagination, or what, but it seems like if you are the host for a game, you have a substantial advantage. I seem to be able to get way more mid-air hits and can time my ski runs better. Also, A+ for adding DOWN thrust 

Yes, hosting a listen server does give you an advantage--dedicated servers (the servers named "shazbot") are in very early testing right now, bu playable. I don't know for certain, but I would imagine that as they get more testing and further development time, most of the competitive games will go to dedicated server only, so everyone has relatively the same latency.

[Margalis]

I got past it, was just some shitty Visual Studio config problem. Path to bscmake.exe was wrong for some reason. Maybe because I installed Visual Studio on a different drive. All my problems are related to the fact that I haven't used Visual Studio in about 5 years.  Either I'm using it wrong or it just sucks balls compared to Eclipse. I really want to see all the relevant files in Visual Studio, including material definitions and shaders.

Has anyone done cell-shading with TGEA? Seems like it would be fun to try.

[Stephen Zepp]

I got past it, was just some shitty Visual Studio config problem. Path to bscmake.exe was wrong for some reason. Maybe because I installed Visual Studio on a different drive. All my problems are related to the fact that I haven't used Visual Studio in about 5 years.  Either I'm using it wrong or it just sucks balls compared to Eclipse. I really want to see all the relevant files in Visual Studio, including material definitions and shaders.

Has anyone done cell-shading with TGEA? Seems like it would be fun to try.

There are a couple of non-shader techniques that have been used in the past, but I'm reasonably sure (I'm not a shader techie) that you could write a reasonable cell shading pixel and vertex shader combo with some research.

[Fordel]

Ok, what is this overdrive people keep dieing to? Is there an extra speed boost on top of all the jetting and skiing?

[Hoax]

IwillnotplaythisatworkIwillnotplaythisatworkIwillnotplaythisatwork

   Fucking Tribes man!!

[Stephen Zepp]

Ok, what is this overdrive people keep dieing to? Is there an extra speed boost on top of all the jetting and skiing?

Yes--at 88 mps you can kick in overdrive, which both accelerates you, but more importantly changes the movement model. It's not actually particularly useful in most circumstances for more speed (the acceleration in that regard isn't that great)--it gives you some pretty radical ability to change direction and make other interesting moves.

It also has a large health drain component.

[Fordel]

Which button do I use for that 

[Margalis]

The flux capacitor button.

[Fordel]

Which is apparently "R" by default!


It's kinda weird, It gives you extra 'weight' so you can blow through people, but in most situations where you would want to use it, its really freaking hard to get the require speed AND be on the ground. I watched the little tutorial video they have up, I've spent like 30 minutes trying duplicate that flag cap run with the overdrive.

No Success so far :(

[Stephen Zepp]

Which is apparently "R" by default!


It's kinda weird, It gives you extra 'weight' so you can blow through people, but in most situations where you would want to use it, its really freaking hard to get the require speed AND be on the ground. I watched the little tutorial video they have up, I've spent like 30 minutes trying duplicate that flag cap run with the overdrive.

No Success so far :(

Hint: massive speed is not generated by overdrive. I'm not by any means a Legions player, but overdrive is an alternate movement mode, not a way to get super duper fast.

Speed is mostly generated by using the physics of skiing and gravity to increase your velocity while gliding down, and maintaining your momentum while regaining altitude.

The big thing about overdrive more than anything else is that you change from wasd to "move wherever the mouse indicates" mode, giving you huge maneuverability. Of course, rapid momentum changes destroy your speed quickly as well, but timed properly you can do a 180 degree hairpin turn at speeds over 140 mps (and that's getting speeds like that --before-- using OD).

[bhodi]

You guys got a mention on penny-arcade, I see!

[Fordel]

PA is how I even found out about it.


Yea I know Overdrive isn't for raw speed, but you need 88+ to use it, while on the ground. In the Tutorial video, the guy flew in for a cap, 180'd mid air and swooped onto the enemy flag hitting Overdrive as he hit the ground and blew through everyone on the flag roof.

I can't duplicate that yet 

[Stephen Zepp]

I got past it, was just some shitty Visual Studio config problem. Path to bscmake.exe was wrong for some reason. Maybe because I installed Visual Studio on a different drive. All my problems are related to the fact that I haven't used Visual Studio in about 5 years.  Either I'm using it wrong or it just sucks balls compared to Eclipse. I really want to see all the relevant files in Visual Studio, including material definitions and shaders.

Has anyone done cell-shading with TGEA? Seems like it would be fun to try.

If you do plan on getting serious with TGEA dev (or even just playing around), grab Torsion (can find it on the GG Product page, under Developer Tools). Torsion is basically "Visual Studio for TorqueScript"--intellisense, error reporting on script compiles, and full breakpoint style debugging (watches, breakpoints, callstacks, etc).

Visual Studio has no innate understanding of how TorqueScript actually works (obviously), whereas Torsion is built from the ground up to work specifically with TorqueScript, and uses the Torque remote/telnet debuffer to do run time debugging.

[Stephen Zepp]

A couple of our most experienced/skilled closed beta testers recently made a Legions Survival Guide that can be very useful if you are new to FPS+Z shooters, or even if just new to Legions.

It's about a 12 minute video, and a touch hokey in places, but an excellent video tutorial in the big picture.

[Fordel]

Yea that thing, about 5min in, he storms the flag with Overdrive, I can't duplicate that :(

<-- Noob

[Fordel]

One real complaint so far, is the team balancing. Doesn't seem to do it right.


"Yea were kicking ass this game!" *checks the score* "Shit, it's Six vs. Two ><"

[Hoax]

I haven't figured out how to ski yet, will check out that video.  I'm played twice though and I'm getting there a bit more, still feel gimped but whatever.  Am I crazy though or is therre nothing that tells you the flag status and position of the flag carrier?  Because thats a really really bad idea.

[HaemishM]

Ok, both Avant Browser and Firefox 2.0 had rendering issues with this game. The ground texture is completely invisible. Ground clutter is there (grass, snow and such) but it's like the underlying mesh the ground lays on top of is completely transparent. Sometimes the buildings are too. It makes it very difficult to move, and of course I'm seeing guys through the terrain but shooting at them doesn't work because there's a hill between the two of us.

Intel P4 3.2 Ghz
Nvidia 7900 GT w/ 169.21 drivers
3 GB RAM

[Fordel]

I haven't figured out how to ski yet, will check out that video.  I'm played twice though and I'm getting there a bit more, still feel gimped but whatever.  Am I crazy though or is therre nothing that tells you the flag status and position of the flag carrier?  Because thats a really really bad idea.

You can see if a flag is home or not, that's about it. So yes, you totally have games where both flag carriers are hiding in the hills behind a rock while everyone else searches or just kills each other for an hour before one of them has to leave.

[Stephen Zepp]

Ok, both Avant Browser and Firefox 2.0 had rendering issues with this game. The ground texture is completely invisible. Ground clutter is there (grass, snow and such) but it's like the underlying mesh the ground lays on top of is completely transparent. Sometimes the buildings are too. It makes it very difficult to move, and of course I'm seeing guys through the terrain but shooting at them doesn't work because there's a hill between the two of us.

Intel P4 3.2 Ghz
Nvidia 7900 GT w/ 169.21 drivers
3 GB RAM

FF 2.0 is definitely supported on Win. I doubt seriously that Avant is.

This is actually a (known) problem with hardware anti-aliasing. Try turning it off in your nVidia settings and see if it helps.

[Stephen Zepp]

I haven't figured out how to ski yet, will check out that video.  I'm played twice though and I'm getting there a bit more, still feel gimped but whatever.  Am I crazy though or is therre nothing that tells you the flag status and position of the flag carrier?  Because thats a really really bad idea.

You can see if a flag is home or not, that's about it. So yes, you totally have games where both flag carriers are hiding in the hills behind a rock while everyone else searches or just kills each other for an hour before one of them has to leave.

I'm not up to speed quite yet on the latest implementation, but from memory, this is how HUD indicators work:

--any character or other HUD marked object that is in true line of sight of anyone on your team is visible to the entire team on the HUD. If a marked target goes out of los of everyone on the team, 5 seconds later it is removed from the HUD.

There is a lot of game balance discussion on this mechanic in the forums, feel free to stop by FE:Legions beta discussion forums if you want to put your feedback in.

[Margalis]

The latest 1up podcast mentions this very favorably.

[Fordel]

Now that I've played this for a fair amount of time, I REALLY miss all the mines and turrets and base generators and repairing and sensors etc...


Basically, I find you can have a pretty even PuG vs PuG experience, but all it takes is ONE player to be of superior skill, and there is little to nothing to stop him. I've been on both ends of it, and it isn't any fun either way. I've played games where I could just waltz in whichever way I pleased and vanish before anyone could catch me. Games where it doesn't matter who has the flag, I could retrieve it at a whim.

I've also been on the other end, playing against what must be a old Tribesman, whose routes and timing and speed were so perfect, nothing could come close to him. In the previous Tribes games, you could counter the raw ability with a little ingenuity. Capper using the same route? Mine his route. Buzzing by to quickly? Set up Elf guns. Even the old heavy on the flag is missing.


Because the game is so bare bones currently, speed can win you anything nearly. The even games are often just about the top guys from either team, dueling each other for the flag, with everyone else being a spectator. I either feel I am the best player on the field, or I am just getting in someones way. There's no in between I find. It lacks that 'you can contribute, even if you can't hit the side of a barn'.

Some of this is due to the two maps currently. The Flag is very open and difficult to defend. The maps are also kinda small. If you really get a route going, you can go from Snag to Cap in 10 seconds roughly. It's obscene.


PS. Grasslands sucks! 

PPS. Permanent Flag Indicators and Flag indicators that aren't SMALLER then the normal indicators.