Nvidia 9800GX2

[SnakeCharmer]

Saw this at Toms Hardware whilst doing some research on a new vid card.  Worth it to wait for it?  Or just wait until it comes out and the prices drop on the 8800 series after it's released.  Is there any game out there that the 8800 GT/GTS/GTX can't run at max settings with a dual core/2+ GB of RAM?  I figure once the 9x series comes out the 8x series should drop pretty hard, yeah?  Seems like the smart thing to do would be to wait, and pick up 2 8800 GTS G92s. 

Thoughts?

[Trippy]

Marketing people price things in tiers so that consumers always have something to buy at their budget level. Price/performance at those tiers is only a secondary concern. If that 9800GX2 really comes out at $450 (which I highly doubt, it's off by at least $100) and that's the only 9800 card that's introduced intially there were still need to be 8800 cards that fill the $350 and $250 tiers, tiers that are now filled by the 8800 GTS and 8800 GT, so I would doubt they would drop in price and if they do it wouldn't be by much. It's only when NVIDIA releases the 9800GT/GTS that the 8800GT/GTS would drop significantly as they become the $150 - $200 price range cards.

[Trippy]

From another perspective, based on the specs NVIDIA leaked last year on the 9800 series (the one people were mistakenly calling the G92), the 9800 looks to be another significant jump in performance -- roughly double the 8800 at least on paper. If that's true then the 9800 GX2 is going to be around 3x the performance of a 8800GT/GTS since it's got two 9800 GPUs on the same card (SLI doesn't actually double the performance). For that price performance the 8800 GTS would have to be priced at $150 for it to match the price/performance of the 9800 GX2. If you buy an 8800 GTS now at, say, $300, then even if your second 8800 GTS later on was free you would still be screwed in terms of price/performance. I.e. you've would've spent 66% of the price of a 9800 GX2 to get 33% of the performance. If you buy an 8800 GTS now at, say, $300, then your second 8800 GTS later on would have to be free to match the 9800 GX2's price/performance.

Edit: GX2

Edit2: oops math wrong

[Strazos]

Wow, video cards are starting to get seriously sick.

I'll have to dream about these cards, until I can one day build a new rig.

[IainC]

Looking at the physical size of those cards in quad SLI mode, how the hell would you fit any other PCI cards in that rig?

[Strazos]

Do they actually make mobos with 4 True 16x PCIe slots?

[SnakeCharmer]

Lots of numbers by Trippy, and still a great explanation...

In your opinion, what would be the best thing to do?  I tend to upgrade video cards about once every year to year and a half.  Go ahead and buy the 8800 GTS now, and in another year or so pick up the next big thing?

I'm actually thinking about building a new system because I've never been too happy with this one using one of those coolio Intel quad cores....

[Trippy]

If you can wait a month I would do that to see what is introduced and the effect that will have on pricing. If they really do introduce the 9800 GX2 at $450 that throws the price/performace ratio so out of whack that there's a chance they'll significantly drop the price on the 8800s though like I said above marketers don't typically think like that (it's all about extracting the most money from their customers).

If you needed to get something *right now* I would get the 8800 GT or G92 8800 GTS. I haven't looked closely enough at the G92 GTS benchmarks to determine what that extra $50 - $75 is gaining you. I run my games at a relatively low resolution of 1024 x 768 so for me I would probably just get the GT.

Upgrading a video card is simple and in a year or so you can get a 9800 GT/GTS.

[Trippy]

Do they actually make mobos with 4 True 16x PCIe slots?

No. With NVIDIA chipsets you can get 2 x16 and 2 x8 or 3 x16 or 4 x8.

[Dtrain]

Looking at the physical size of those cards in quad SLI mode, how the hell would you fit any other PCI cards in that rig?

That card is 

If you could manage to fit a PCI card in-between them, huddled like some dirty refugee in an art deco metropolis, it would probably only manage to restrict airflow.

But seriously, if you need the type of graphics horsepower that a quad SLI configuration costing close to $1,000 brings you, chances are you can go without PCI cards.

And I second waiting a month to see what happens. I'm not usually a fan of the waiting game in CPU parts, but this looks like it could be a very clever investment for the enthusiast market at the $450 price point - a lot of things can change because of that.

Meanwhile, what is ATi's answer? This could end up getting interesting. ATi has a lot to prove in the upcoming generation of cards, and Nvidia has been very aggressive in releasing good product at great prices.

[SnakeCharmer]

If you can wait a month I would do that to see what is introduced and the effect that will have on pricing. If they really do introduce the 9800 GX2 at $450 that throws the price/performace ratio so out of whack that there's a chance they'll significantly drop the price on the 8800s though like I said above marketers don't typically think like that (it's all about extracting the most money from their customers).

If you needed to get something *right now* I would get the 8800 GT or G92 8800 GTS. I haven't looked closely enough at the G92 GTS benchmarks to determine what that extra $50 - $75 is gaining you. I run my games at a relatively low resolution of 1024 x 768 so for me I would probably just get the GT.

Upgrading a video card is simple and in a year or so you can get a 9800 GT/GTS.

I'm running at 1920x1200 on a 24 inch widescreen (damn you, Schild, damn you to hell!!! - from my wife), and it seems to be taxing it pretty hard on CoD4 and a couple other games.  The native on the 24" is 1920x1200, and as I've always understood it that it was best to run the native resolution of the monitor you're using for best image quality.

I think, though, that something is just up with my system somewhere.  5400 3dmarks on 3dmark06 seems awfully low, and after a format, reinstall, updated drivers and everything it's not scoring any better.  I'm thinking about getting a new 8800GTS and seeing what happens, and if I'm not satisfied, build a new quad core.

[Rasix]

Is there any game out there that the 8800 GT/GTS/GTX can't run at max settings with a dual core/2+ GB of RAM?

Crysis?  Heh, although it could be that I don't have a current gen dual core.  Don't know how much of a difference a Core2Duo makes over my Pentium D. Crysis told me to please use Medium,  though.

I've got a 8800GT 512 MB, Pentium D 3Ghz, with 2 gigs of RAM. Witcher was still a bit of a pig also, but I've been really happy with my 8800gt.

If this SLI shit ever becomes assumed, I'm done with PC gaming. 

[Sky]

If you can wait a month I would do that to see what is introduced and the effect that will have on pricing.

Upgrading a video card is simple and in a year or so you can get a 9800 GT/GTS.

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=512-P3-N867-AR

[Murgos]

According to the review on Tom's the 8800 GT was still better by 10-15%.  Apparently this card is still last generation tech with a marketing roll-over for the number.

Pretty crappy thing to do if you ask me.

[Dtrain]

According to the review on Tom's the 8800 GT was still better by 10-15%.  Apparently this card is still last generation tech with a marketing roll-over for the number.

Pretty crappy thing to do if you ask me.

I have no problems with the product branding of this card. The price you're going to see while it's still a brand new part is a little high, but keep in mind the MSRP on the 9600 GT is something like 170 USD.

It's not so much an issue of it using last generation technology, but rather a product targeting a particular price point with a set of features that compares unfavorably with a higher priced product from a previous generation. I'd say it's the low end enthusiast's card for the next generation. It's using the G94 core, while the 8800 GT is on a G92 core.

Still, if I had to buy right now, I'd spring the extra 30 - 50 USD on an 8800 GT.

I'll probably end up waiting for the 9800 GX2 to release and come in line with the MSRP.

The one thing Nvidia did that really had me pissed is when they released the Geforce 4 MX series. I didn't fall for the trap, but those cards were essentially Geforce 2's, but priced much higher. I like to think they've leared their lesson from that.

[Nerf]

What I find odd is that the 9600 only has 64 stream processors, where the 8600 has 32 but the 8800 is running 112.  Downgrade, really?

[Trippy]

How is a card that's cheaper than the 8800 GT 256 MB but faster a downgrade (other than in price)? It's also only slightly slower than the 8800 GT 512 MB if you like to run with AA/AF turned on.

[schild]

Sarchasm?

[Trippy]

Maybe.

[Murgos]

I'm not saying it's a bad card.  Performance 15% below the 8800 GT at 30% lower price is fine.  I'm just annoyed that they rolled the model numbers over.  Should have called it an 8650 or something.

I feel as though the whole numbering system they use is just to confuse people though so it's par for the course.

[Trippy]

The 9600 GT is like literally 2x the performance of the 8600 GT so calling it an 8650 would be misleading (people would think it's a small incremental improvement over the 8600) as would calling it an 8700 since it's faster than the 256 MB 8800 GT. Personally I'm fine with them calling it the 9600. The performance of the 9600 GT has so far shown that the G94 is a more efficient design than the G92 (i.e. it's close to 8800 GT 512 MB performance with AA/AF turned on with significantly fewer transistors) so I fully expect the 9800 GT/S/X/whatever to be a significant improvement over the 8800 GT/S/X/whatever.

[Dtrain]

Review is in at http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/18/nvidia_geforce_9800_gx2_review/index.html

Cliff notes:
Fastest high end card != good price to performance ratio.

[rattran]

Pretty much just 2 8800gt cards welded together with an hdmi port. Way too pricey.

[Trippy]

That driver still needs some work.

[Engels]

Just got the GF the 9600GT and I'm pleasantly surprised at it. Its a 'budget' card, coming in just shy of $200, but runs very close to the 8800GT according to Tom's Hardware benchmarls, with lower power consumption and slightly less fan noise. It was a very good choice for her, since she runs at a moderate resolution.

The coolest part is that she was running a 6800 on her 3 year old Dell with a 375 watt PSU. She can run this card and even under heavy load, she doesn't crest 350 watts.

[Salamok]

I have heard that the price point for the 9800gt is going to be around $650 at release.  I have also heard a prediction that the 8800gtx price will remain fairly firm until the price on the 9800's begins to soften (aka nVidia isn't planning on releasing a card that is price/performance competetive with the 8800gtx for a while).

[MrHat]

There's a report somewhere that 9800GX2 are melting peoples computers.

[HaemishM]

So I haven't paid much attention to the rankings of price performance on either the Nvidia or ATI side lately. Does anyone have a link to an area that lists all the GS/GX/GT/HD whatever designations and what price points/performance those equate to?

[Engels]

You can check the tom's hardware site, or anandtech, those often have comprehensive reviews.

My estimation is ATI still isn't worth getting. Benchmarks suggest that they are still missing the mark on their cards. Check out the 9800gtx2 review for what I mean.

With Nvidia, there's currently 3-4 options

9600GT for the 'lite' gamer, price ~$200
8800GT for the medium gamer price ~220-290 (varying types available, with more or less ram, OC'd, etc)
8800 Ultra or GTX for those that run games on high settings and high resolutions with 24" + scrreens. Price in the $400+ range
9800GTX2 for the OMG I GOTTA HAVE IT crowd. It is better than the 8800, but I don't think its $200 better, but whatever. If you're considering spending that much on a vid card, the $200 probably isn't going to phase you.

[Furiously]

My 9750GX2 vents into my case and I'm with my new i780 the heat is starting to be a concern with their MCP or NB solution.

Anyone have any suggestions on a card that vents outside the case? Looks like the GTS's mostly do? I'm not seeing how they are significantly better then the GT's though.

[fuser]

With Nvidia, there's currently 3-4 options

I'd throw the 8800GTS (G92) in there. The prices are dropping dramatically $224.99 CAD for example which is really in line with 8800GT's price/performance  (But they usually have MIR  ).

[IainC]

Looking at the physical size of those cards in quad SLI mode, how the hell would you fit any other PCI cards in that rig?

But seriously, if you need the type of graphics horsepower that a quad SLI configuration costing close to $1,000 brings you, chances are you can go without PCI cards.

Yeah because the kind of people who drop a grand on video cards for a games rig would totally be happy unplugging their Ageia PhysX card, their KillerNIC and their X-Fi Fatal1ty.

[Dtrain]

If playing Crysis on high settings is really that important to you, it shouldn't be that hard to give up the debatable benefits of those cards you mentioned. Even quad-SLI is largely a debatable benefit over dual SLI at this point in time.

So essentially you're taking 4 debatable aspects of a pie in the sky dream gaming machine and telling me there will be a riot in the streets of they can not be achieved in the same machine. I'm skeptical.

Crysis is an anomaly right now, but it surely indicates the direction that hardware requirements will go in the next couple of years. If you're building a high end system today, and you're not planning to upgrade your video card in the next 2 years you're either confused by Crysis or not very experienced at building systems.