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Author Topic: Jump Clone Expedition  (Read 12748 times)
Endie
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on: January 20, 2008, 05:33:27 AM

What Jump Clones  Do

I know a few people have been cautious about PvPing because of jump clones.

For those who don't know about jump clones, they are incredibly useful: they let you travel huge distances at once, and they let you keep your expensive implant set safe when pvping.  The mechanic seems a little complicated at first, but here is how it works:

You set up a jump clone in a station.  Let's call that jump clone A.  There is now a copy of you, without implants, in that station.  You then travel to another station, whether in the same system or 100 jumps away.  You then go to your character sheet's jump clones tab, choose the clone you made and jump to it.  After a short delay you wake up in the station you set your clone up in, with no implants.  Meanwhile, there is now another copy of you in the station you jumped from, say in Akora, which we will call jump clone B.  You can jump like this once every 24 hours.

You can now move in jump clone A to another system, somewhere more useful to you than a station in 0.0.  Let's say you move to Sankassen, and then jump back to jump clone B.  Now you are in Akora, learning at a fast rate with implants, but you can jump back to Sankassen the next day to pvp without implants.  And so on.

Tl;dr version is this: you can make copies of yourself all over the galaxy and jump between them for iinstant travel and risk-free PvP.  This does not replace your clone, which you should refresh every time you get podded, and always keep up to date.

Normally jump clones are available only in one of two ways: you can either grind +8 standing with an NPC corp (you do not want to do this, as it takes months), or you can join a player corp with jump clone rights at a player-controlled station in 0.0.  I have such a corp, with rights to a station 4 jumps into relatively safe 0.0.

What you will need:

1 - Make sure to resign any roles with your current corp 24 hours in advance of this operation.  You will be swapping corp for a short while and this needs you to have no roles for 24 hours straight.

2 - Make sure that you have the Informorph Psychology skill trained to at least 1.  This, in turn, requires some level of the Science skill (3 I think, but check).

When and Where

We will start from Dital, in the Devoid system.  There are several ways into Providence, but this one is central and we can swap around if camped in.

This will not be a suicide op, but come in a decent frigate with a propulsion mod (afterburner or MWD in the unlikely event we get bubbled somehow) and warp core stabilisers fitted for pipe running.  I will be scouting in a covops, and risk is very low (though never zero in 0.0).

Let me know who is interested, and we can arrange a time for this.  It'll be a few days, to let people get notice for skills to be trained and for roles to be dropped. This is for anyone from F13 who wants (and who isn't red to CVA), not just for newbies.

If anyone is interested, I can also run through gang techniques and 0.0 skills at the same time: non-inline safespots, aligning and gang-warping, overviews and so on.

My blog: http://endie.net

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Reg
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Reply #1 on: January 20, 2008, 05:52:31 AM

Endie's offer sounds more fun but if you aren't around for the group travel into 0.0 people are welcome to join my corp for a day or two and get jump clones with the Federation Navy which is available anywhere in Gallente space.
Falconeer
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Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 06:19:31 AM

This will not be a suicide op, but come in a decent frigate with a propulsion mod (afterburner or MWD in the unlikely event we get bubbled somehow) and warp core stabilisers fitted for pipe running.  I will be scouting in a covops, and risk is very low (though never zero in 0.0).

Let me know who is interested, and we can arrange a time for this.  It'll be a few days, to let people get notice for skills to be trained and for roles to be dropped. This is for anyone from F13 who wants (and who isn't red to CVA), not just for newbies.

If anyone is interested, I can also run through gang techniques and 0.0 skills at the same time: non-inline safespots, aligning and gang-warping, overviews and so on.

Of course I am interested.
But I have to admit that my biggest issue right now with EVE is the huge, although fascinating, learning curve.
The part of your post I quoted is a good example.
The reds are the parts I don't have the slightest idea what they are. And I love to find out things by myself, but this is proving difficult because of the lack of in-game documentation.

Another good example is that ECM Ion thing I installed on my Gallente frigate, as per Corp suggestion. After wondering what the hell it does, Bhodii told me it is supposed to mess up Caldari targeting systems (only Caldari). But I couldn't find this info anywhere in game, so I wonder how do you know this, or better how are you supposed to know this?
And I am sure there are so many others like it, and I can see myself install something hoping for it to be efficient only to find out it does shit to Minmatar ships and it only works on NPCs or the opposite and so on.
So I guess it will take some time before I will be able to have any kind of impact in our wars.

Again don't get me wrong: I love the game and I like this kind of old school logic from the Elite era where instructions booklet were a joke.
But I guess I need serious help, or I'll break before being able to shoot a single shell.

In the meantime, thanks to Endie for this wonderful, clarifying post about Jump Clones (I kinda asked for it). Sorry for the whine and expect me to ask so many other silly and boring questions in the next few days. And thanks for your patience. Sucks to be a noob.

IainC
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Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 06:21:11 AM

Just a few points about jump clones that may not be obvious from what Endie said:

Do I lose my implants when I jump?
No, your newly created clone has no implants, but your old self keeps any implants that it had. If you jump from a clone with implants to one that has none then you will lose the benefit of those implants when you next change a skill. The game only checks your implant status when you begin training a new skill. You can, of course, implant all of your jump clones if you like.

How many jump clones can I have?

1 for each level of Infomorph Psychology that you have. Thus a maximum of 5.

Can I have a jump clone and a medical clone in the same station?
You can but you shouldn't ever do this. Your medical clone (the place where you'll wake up in if you get podded) and your jump clone (a copy of you) are linked but separate. If you use a medical clone then any jump clones installed at that station will be destroyed - complete with any implants they may have had.

Do my clones train?
Your jump clones keep up with your training. They aren't snapshots of you at the time you created them so as you gain new skills then so do they.

What if I die in a jump clone?

Then you repop back in your normal medical clone as normal and you're minus a jump clone. For this reason if you're going to be spending a lot of time in the area where your jump clone is, then you may want to move your medical clone close by too.



Finally.

Even if you don't have a jump clone, always, always, always keep your medical clone up to date. If you get podded then, before you do anything else, update your medical clone to the appropriate level. Do this before you get into your spare ship, before you start swearing into corp chat and before you get carried away and fly out in a basic clone. If you get podded again and your current clone carries less skill points than you have, you will lose training starting with your highest rank skills to bring you back under budget. You can go from 40m SPs to less than a million just by being absent minded.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:23:12 AM by IainC »

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Sparky
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Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 07:24:32 AM

I think the maximum SP you can lose is 10% off your highest skill.  Could be very harsh if you've got Caldari Dreadnaught 5 or something, but for most people it'll probably just be hours rather than days/weeks training.  So while it's theoretically possible to go from 40m SP to 800K you'd have to be deliberately trying to fuck yourself to do it.  That's not to say "update your fucking clone" isn't good advice, but it's not a "zomg I quit" mistake if you forget.
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Reply #5 on: January 20, 2008, 07:26:48 AM

Just a few points about jump clones that may not be obvious from what Endie said:
Do I lose my implants when I jump?
No, your newly created clone has no implants, but your old self keeps any implants that it had. If you jump from a clone with implants to one that has none then you will lose the benefit of those implants when you next change a skill. The game only checks your implant status when you begin training a new skill. You can, of course, implant all of your jump clones if you like.
Unfortunately, I thought to abuse this too. You have to stop training before you jump, so you can't get the bonus of starting training with implants, losing them mid way, and completing the skill as if you still had implants (like do you if you get podded)

Can I have a jump clone and a medical clone in the same station?
You can but you shouldn't ever do this. Your medical clone (the place where you'll wake up in if you get podded) and your jump clone (a copy of you) are linked but separate. If you use a medical clone then any jump clones installed at that station will be destroyed - complete with any implants they may have had.
I cannot stress this enough. You will lose your implants unless you understand this.

You will also lose your implants if you go to a station where your jump clone is and then attempt to jump into it. This is especially relevant if you create a jumpclone somewhere, and then want to jump into it immediately, just to "see if it works" or to immediately ditch your implants. Do. Not. Do. This.
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Reply #6 on: January 20, 2008, 07:35:18 AM

After wondering what the hell it does, Bhodii told me it is supposed to mess up Caldari targeting systems (only Caldari). But I couldn't find this info anywhere in game, so I wonder how do you know this, or better how are you supposed to know this?

Ion thingy?  You probably mean Gallante.  If you show info on the module it'll say "Works best against magnometric sensors" or some shit, now if you show info > view attributes on any gallante ship and scroll riiight down to the bottom it'll say "Magnometric sensor strength X".  Easy huh? swamp poop

It's a real shame the whole Goonfleet wiki isn't public 'cos they explain all this shit in some detail.  CCP should seriously bribe them or something.
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Reply #7 on: January 20, 2008, 08:39:48 AM

Ion thingy?  You probably mean Gallante.  If you show info on the module it'll say "Works best against magnometric sensors" or some shit, now if you show info > view attributes on any gallante ship and scroll riiight down to the bottom it'll say "Magnometric sensor strength X".  Easy huh? swamp poop

No fuck!
I appreciate your effort, but now I am even more confused  ACK!

Endie
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Reply #8 on: January 20, 2008, 08:43:26 AM


Finally.

Even if you don't have a jump clone, always, always, always keep your medical clone up to date. If you get podded then, before you do anything else, update your medical clone to the appropriate level. Do this before you get into your spare ship, before you start swearing into corp chat and before you get carried away and fly out in a basic clone. If you get podded again and your current clone carries less skill points than you have, you will lose training starting with your highest rank skills to bring you back under budget. You can go from 40m SPs to less than a million just by being absent minded.

This is the truest thing of any in Eve, where time spent training is the only thing you can't get back oif you lose it.  How it is calculated is a little trivkier than this, but as a rule you'll lose the highest level in your hardest-to-train skill if you get podded with a medical clone that holds less skillpoints than you have.  Here is the goonfleet poster on ths subject:


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Reply #9 on: January 20, 2008, 08:56:06 AM

Ion thingy?  You probably mean Gallante.  If you show info on the module it'll say "Works best against magnometric sensors" or some shit, now if you show info > view attributes on any gallante ship and scroll riiight down to the bottom it'll say "Magnometric sensor strength X".  Easy huh? swamp poop

No fuck!
I appreciate your effort, but now I am even more confused  ACK!

Basically each race tends to rely on different sensor systems.
Gallente use Magnometric
Caldari use Gravimetric
Amarr use RADAR
Minmatar use LADAR

If you check any ship info you'll see the type of sensors that is uses along with the sensor strength, so for example the Cyclone ( a Minmatar BC) says LADAR Sensor Strength: 16.0 points. This tells us how good it's sensors are (how fast it aquires targets) and how hard it is to jam. If you pointed an ECM Phase Inverter I at it, this would reduce the sensor strength by 3 points making it harder for the Minnie pilot to lock targets.

Note the ECM modules also have a very small effect against other types too. You can get multispectral ECM modules that nerf all types of sensors equally.

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Reply #10 on: January 20, 2008, 09:16:53 AM

In the simplest terms, imagine that someone is in a minmatar battleship with a sensor strength of 16 (I am using arbitrary numbers here: check eft to find out what the real numbers for you in a given ship are).  Minmatar ships have awful sensor strength, where Caldari have the best.

You come along in your griffin, a throwaway Caldari frigate costing approximately 0.25% of the money of your enemy's battleship.  You have two minmatar racial jammers on board because you knew what you were up against, and between the base strength of the jammer, your skills, the signal distortion amplifier in your low slot and the bonus of the griffin you find you have a jammer strength of, say, 8.

You press your jammer button while having the minmatar battleship targetted.  It looks to see if you are inside the optimal range of your jammers (they fall away pretty quickly outside this, although there is a skill to help), and if so it calculates that you have a 8/16 chance of jamming your target.  In other words, your jammer will jam his ship one time in two on average (if the first fails, try the second one: between the two jammers with 50% chances each, you therefore have a 75% chance of one succeeding).

If you were using multispecs, which are weaker but work equally well for all target races, you might find you maybe only had enough strength to jam one time in 4 or something.  However, with your minmatar racial jammers fitted, if you came across a Caldari ship with a sensor strength of 16, you would find you have an even lower chance of success: say one time in 8.  If he fits an ECCM module his sensor strength doubles, and your chances to jam him half.

In simple terms, the game finds your jam strength, expresses it as a percentage of his sensor strength, and that is your chance to jam your target.

Hop into a blackbird, and bang, your racial jammers are suddenly perma-jamming several ships for the entire combat.

It is easier in practise, except where you are trying to remember what ship is what race and what sensor strength they may have.  In this fight there is the advantage that our enemies almost all use Caldari, which makes it easier to fit and to select targets.

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Reply #11 on: January 20, 2008, 09:29:47 AM

The tl;dr version of endie's explanation:

EW is sniper ranged crowd control; in a properly fitted blackbird with okay skills, from 100-150km out, I can disable 2 battleships or 3 cruisers if we know what race they are flying. Disable being "Can't target, can't do anything but sit there or run away". I can 'harrass' up to double that number, meaning they will lose target lock occasionally (and be out of the fight for 30s while they sit out the jam and retarget)

You don't ever want to use multispec jammers unless your skills are very good. They have half the range and use twice as much cap. You're generally better off fitting a variety of racials and using them even if they don't match the race type. They still do 1/3 jamming strength to all races, which is only about 1/3 less than a mutispec, with double the range and half the cap use.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 09:35:25 AM by bhodi »
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Reply #12 on: January 20, 2008, 10:41:35 AM

You will also lose your implants if you go to a station where your jump clone is and then attempt to jump into it. This is especially relevant if you create a jumpclone somewhere, and then want to jump into it immediately, just to "see if it works" or to immediately ditch your implants. Do. Not. Do. This.

To add to this. If if you have more then 1 JC and you jump to another one when you allready have a jump clone in the station you are in, then the jump clone already in the station will be replaced by your "present" clone and that one that was there previously will go bye bye. You will get a warning however. That said it will free up a spot for your jump clones and if you can install a clone at your destination you can do so immediately, and fly back normally. Its a trick I use occasionally when moving ships around.

Hic sunt dracones.
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Reply #13 on: January 20, 2008, 11:03:00 AM

You press your jammer button while having the minmatar battleship targetted.  It looks to see if you are inside the optimal range of your jammers (they fall away pretty quickly outside this, although there is a skill to help), and if so it calculates that you have a 8/16 chance of jamming your target.  In other words, your jammer will jam his ship one time in two on average (if the first fails, try the second one: between the two jammers with 50% chances each, you therefore have a 75% chance of one succeeding).

Holy cow, now it's all clearer. And even if I played this game on and off since 2004 I really didn't have a clue!
Simple question now: assuming my jamming fails, how long before I can try it again with the same jammer?
I mean, let's say I have 50% chances and I fail. Can I just spam the jammer to try again or there is a reuse timer? Is that reuse timer listed anywhere?

As I said in chat today, this game is too deep to be real.
Compared to EVE's complexity all the other MMORPGs look like 8-bit era cheap (as in: not even the best ones) shoot'em ups.

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Reply #14 on: January 20, 2008, 11:17:43 AM

The re-use timer is the cycle time of your jammer. For the one I linked it's 20 secs. The module cycles whether it's successful or not just like a salvager.

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Reply #15 on: January 20, 2008, 06:32:59 PM

Endie's offer sounds more fun but if you aren't around for the group travel into 0.0 people are welcome to join my corp for a day or two and get jump clones with the Federation Navy which is available anywhere in Gallente space.
Which, by the way, THANK YOU. :) It took some doing to find three Federation Navy stations with Medical services (I wanted a full set of 3 jump clones so I could move them around later), but I got it done and applied to Bat Country. (Haven't checked to see if I've been accepted yet).

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Reply #16 on: January 21, 2008, 03:13:37 AM

Thanks to Falconeer for asking the questions and double thanks to those that have answered; I feel like I'm trying to free-climb the learning cliff with EVE!

Ok it's not quite that bad, but every extra bit of info helps.
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Reply #17 on: January 21, 2008, 06:16:28 AM

This will not be a suicide op, but come in a decent frigate with a propulsion mod (afterburner or MWD in the unlikely event we get bubbled somehow) and warp core stabilisers fitted for pipe running.  I will be scouting in a covops, and risk is very low (though never zero in 0.0).

Let me know who is interested, and we can arrange a time for this.  It'll be a few days, to let people get notice for skills to be trained and for roles to be dropped. This is for anyone from F13 who wants (and who isn't red to CVA), not just for newbies.

If anyone is interested, I can also run through gang techniques and 0.0 skills at the same time: non-inline safespots, aligning and gang-warping, overviews and so on.

Get bubbled:  There are several ways to stop ships from running away from you by entering warp.  One is to use Warp Jammer or Warp Disruptor modules (these are mid-slot modules that any ship can use).  Another is to use Interdictor ships and "drop bubbles" (interdiction spheres) which will cause a whole area to be warp-disrupted.  This second method is usually employed around gates to catch those who come through and prevent them from warping away.

Warp Core Stabilizers:  These low-slot modules will give you +1 to your warp core strength, meaning that the enemy will need more "points" (the total number of warp disruptors and interdiction spheres you have on you) to keep you there.  Fitting all your ship's low slots with these might give you a chance to warp away despite their best efforts, although the stabilizer modules have drawbacks and make your ship pretty much unable to fight.  But you're running away, not fighting, anyway.

Not-inline safespots.  There are two methods, currently, to make a safespot (a spot in space that you have bookmarked, that is away from any planets, stations, etc.).  The first is to warp between two planets and click "add bookmark" while you're in transit, thus creating a spot somewhere in the middle, away from everything.  The second is to take a combat mission from an agent (they send you to fight stuff at random locations, usually away from everything) and bookmark that location for later use as a safespot.

Since you're not doing missions, you can only create safespots by warping between things.   Now, in order to find you, they have to use scanning probes and triangulate your position, and that is made easy by a few things:  how close you are to planets, if you're in the plane of the eliptic, and how electronically-noisy your ship is (which depends on size, drones, etc).  There's no control over the size of the ship, so the only way to minimize their chances of finding you is to create a safespot that's far away.  Warp between two planets and create a spot, then warp between that spot and a third planet and create another midway spot.  This spot is not in direct line with any planet at all, so it's harder for anyone scanning for you to guess where to aim their directional scanner in order to pin you down.

But, with all this said, you'll probably be found within 30 s to 2 min, at which point they warp on top of you.  So, to be safe you need:  multiple safespots so you can go from one to the next every 30 seconds thus forcing them to start scanning again whenever they get close, and/or a cloaking device so you can go to your safespot and cloak, thus disappearing from scanners.

Aligning and gang-warping:  Ships turn slowly and accellerate slowly, so if you're sitting at your safespot and someone finds you, it will take several seconds for your ship to get up to speed and lined up before warping away.  These seconds are critical, because in this time the enemy will warp-scramble you to keep you there.  So, it's best to double-click in space in the direction of a planet or object you can warp to; this will pre-align and pre-speed up your ship, so that if you're found, you can warp away instantly.  Provided that you warp to the planet or object that you're lined up with, heh.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 06:18:43 AM by ajax34i »
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Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 06:26:15 AM

You can also make safespots by fitting a fast ship (an Interceptor with a Microwarpdrive and Overdrive Injectors is ideal but even a shuttle will do if you don't care how long it takes) and flying in a straight line away from something. A lot of pilots make safety bookmarks for stations so that they can escape a camped docking point easily - you undock and then double click in space as close to straight ahead as you can, fly for about 200-300km and then bookmark the place where you get bored. Then, if you're in a camped station, you just set the bookmark as your destination, undock then hit autopilot as soon as you finish loading for instant getaway. Gives you enough breathing space to warp off to a real safe spot and gird your loins for combat.

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Reply #19 on: January 21, 2008, 07:46:36 AM

Couple of other things about ECM.....

Unlike almost every other module you should always right click on your ECM modules and set them to manual on (the default is automatic). Heres why....

Lets say you have 1 target and 3 ECM modules (lets call them jammers)

You use jammer 1 and it fails
You use jammer 2 and it also fails
You use jammer 3 and it works - yay!

20 seconds later jammers 1,2 & 3 will (if left on Auto) activate again on the same target, lets say jammer 1 works this time. You have now wasted 2 jammers against an already jammed target which could have been used on another target!

Also remembering what jammer works on what ship is a pain - luckily they are colour coded for you (its more or less the same colour as the background colour in the thumbnails of the ships they work against)

Blue Jammers = anti-Caldari
Green-ish Jammers = anti-Gallente
Red Jammers = anti-Minmatar
Gold Jammers = anti-Amar
Brown Jammers = Any (just not as good and with lower range)

Also remember that not races/ships have equal sensor strengths. Other than Recons ships get harder to jam the bigger they are (Recons are stronger than Battleships). Minmatar have the lowest sensor strength (making them easiest to jam) followed by Amarr, Gallente and Caldari (hardest to jam)

The practical upshot of this is that multispectral (any) jammers are more likely to jam a frigate than a Battleship and more likely to jam a Minmatar ship than a Caldari one.

There are counters to ECM (ECCM - activate mid slot that effectlively doubles your sensor strength. and a sensor backup - passive low slot that adds almost 50%) these are usually rarely fitted as they provide no other benefit (and people usually dont want to gimp their fits). These modules make less of a difference on the smaller ships (that have lower values to start with) than on the bigger ships
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Reply #20 on: January 21, 2008, 09:35:38 AM

Don't jammer points stack? Or is that just my wishful thinking?

- Viin
ajax34i
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Reply #21 on: January 21, 2008, 10:05:20 AM

I'm in.  Don't have implants, so don't need a jump clone.

Guess I'll head out to Dital.
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Reply #22 on: January 21, 2008, 10:07:52 AM

Don't jammer points stack? Or is that just my wishful thinking?

No, each jammer acts independently of the others.

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Reply #23 on: January 21, 2008, 10:33:08 AM

I'm in.  Don't have implants, so don't need a jump clone.

Guess I'll head out to Dital.

I've been playing a week and have about 500k worth of implants.  Not that a few +1 implants are crucial to my build but what I am saying is that as you play you will gain implants and in a month or so you might actually have something you want to keep.

I plan on doing the JC op, just let me know when to be there.

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ajax34i
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Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 10:58:37 AM

Yeah, had +1's, got podded, lost them.  Since we're at war, I figured I wouldn't replace them yet.  Once the wars are over, I'm probably going to get +2's, they're cheap enough that I can afford them.
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Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 11:05:54 AM

great info here, thank's all. The only thing mentioned so far that am am looking for illumination on in the "fitted for pipe running" thing. I am guessing that pipe running is a moniker for getting through a camping group?

I love the position : "You're not right until I can prove you wrong!"
ajax34i
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Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 11:13:26 AM

That term is new to me too, but may refer to not just one camp, but rather the string of them that can be found along the "highways" from empire to whatever points of interest are in 0.0.  And he probably means don't just fit stabilizers, but also (if possible) nanofibers, cloak, an oversized tank, no guns, etc.; maximize your ship for "run away."

Are we gonna be able to re-fit once in 0.0?  If not, then nevermind what I just said.
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Reply #27 on: January 21, 2008, 01:40:49 PM

The pipe is the string of lowsec/zerosec systems between empire and your station. I find around 3km/s is sufficiently fast to run back to the gate if I jump into a pile of Huginns or Rapiers. I haven't yet jumped into a pile of Hyenas, so in general go as fast as you can. Warping fast using inertial stabilizers is also nice, though unless you're in a frigate you're not going to warp fast enough to get out of someone's lock. And maybe not even then. The trick to the running back to the gate stunt is that you accept the fact that your enemy is going to get a lock, but your momentum will carry you all the way to the gate even after the web is applied. Try not to get alpha damaged into smithereens. Travel in a pack and always run back to the gate and you shouldn't lose but one guy if that.

They needn't bring interdictors to bubble. There's also a deployable bubble that comes in three sizes each with T2 versions that can be anchored. This is nice when you set up a camp and don't have a dictor.
5150
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Reply #28 on: January 22, 2008, 01:55:02 AM

Don't jammer points stack? Or is that just my wishful thinking?

That was the old system where you just needed more ECM points than the sensor strength of the target ship = permajam (so just like warp scrams vs. warp stabs.)

The current system is your ECM strength (against the correct sensor type of the target) / target ship sensor strength * 100 = % chance to jam with that particular module

Multiple jammers give you more 'rolls of the dice'

With that in mind it becomes obvious why racial jammers are worse than multi-spectrals against the wrong sensor (race) type.
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Reply #29 on: January 22, 2008, 02:52:16 AM

Lets say you have 1 target and 3 ECM modules (lets call them jammers)

You use jammer 1 and it fails
You use jammer 2 and it also fails
You use jammer 3 and it works - yay!

20 seconds later jammers 1,2 & 3 will (if left on Auto) activate again on the same target, lets say jammer 1 works this time. You have now wasted 2 jammers against an already jammed target which could have been used on another target!

Great info as usual!
A couple of clarifications.

1) Do you get any fedback when you try jamming? Like a message or visual aid that tells you "Ok, jammer 1 worked so there's no need to fire up jammer 2" and so on?

2) Again, assuming Jammer 1 worked, is there anything they can do to make it stop working? I take it my jammer will keep on working until I turn it off or my cap runs out. What does it mean, that they are jammed and helpless until I turn the jammer off or my cap runs out?

IainC
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Reply #30 on: January 22, 2008, 03:04:55 AM


Great info as usual!
A couple of clarifications.

1) Do you get any fedback when you try jamming? Like a message or visual aid that tells you "Ok, jammer 1 worked so there's no need to fire up jammer 2" and so on?

2) Again, assuming Jammer 1 worked, is there anything they can do to make it stop working? I take it my jammer will keep on working until I turn it off or my cap runs out. What does it mean, that they are jammed and helpless until I turn the jammer off or my cap runs out?


1: I believe you do. Try it on a corp mate to check though (it counts as a hostile act so don't jam someone randomly unless they are a legitimate wartarget or are in your corp).

2: Jammers work in cycles. As with anything that works in cycles - scanners, guns, salvagers etc - you can set it to run continuously once activated or to run once then stop. Right click and choose 'Manual on' and it will go a single cycle at a time every time you activate it.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

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Falconeer
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Reply #31 on: January 22, 2008, 03:14:34 AM

2: Jammers work in cycles. As with anything that works in cycles - scanners, guns, salvagers etc - you can set it to run continuously once activated or to run once then stop. Right click and choose 'Manual on' and it will go a single cycle at a time every time you activate it.

Yes, yes! But what I am asking is that if it DID work (assuming it did), will it work forever until I turn it off (cycles after cycles), or a new dice roll will be needed at the start of the next cycle?

5150
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Reply #32 on: January 22, 2008, 03:33:09 AM

Lets say you have 1 target and 3 ECM modules (lets call them jammers)

You use jammer 1 and it fails
You use jammer 2 and it also fails
You use jammer 3 and it works - yay!

20 seconds later jammers 1,2 & 3 will (if left on Auto) activate again on the same target, lets say jammer 1 works this time. You have now wasted 2 jammers against an already jammed target which could have been used on another target!

Great info as usual!
A couple of clarifications.

1) Do you get any fedback when you try jamming? Like a message or visual aid that tells you "Ok, jammer 1 worked so there's no need to fire up jammer 2" and so on?

2) Again, assuming Jammer 1 worked, is there anything they can do to make it stop working? I take it my jammer will keep on working until I turn it off or my cap runs out. What does it mean, that they are jammed and helpless until I turn the jammer off or my cap runs out?


1. When a jammer works (lands) you will see a 20 sec timer bar under the ship thumbnail at the top of your screen, since Trinity there is now a separate (10 sec) bar for damps (pre-trinity there was a single bar that showed the time for the most recent module that landed) - I believe everyone targetting that ship will see the bar (so other ECM gangmates dont waste jammers on the same target)

2. Once a jammer lands the target is jammed for 20 secs - end of story nothing they can do about it (even if you warp off/unlock/die/get jammed yourself). If you turned the module off immediately the target will stay jammed and the module will blink red (i.e. be unusable) until the 20 secs is up.

If you did leave it on automatic every 20 secs the test (see my previous post) is made again to see if the target is jammed or not (so no guarantee you'll get him on subsequent cycles), this will continue until the module is turned off, you run out of cap or you no longer have a lock (I've never tried but I assume the module wont activate if the target isnt in range of the module either i.e. further than optimal + falloff + falloff bear in mind its very possible to lock further than your module range)

While I'm on the subject of range when operating beyond optimal (i.e. in fall off distance) your chances of 'hitting' diminish to 50% between optimal and falloff x1 and then diminish from 50% to 0% betweek falloff x1 and falloff x2 - _if_ you hit _then_ the test to jam is made

Heres an example with some made up numbers

Assuming my ECM module has an optimal of 100km and a falloff of 10km.....

Up to 100km I have a 100% chance to 'hit' so only the test to jam is made
Between 101km and 110km my chance to 'hit' drops (linearly) from 100% to 50% - assuming a 'hit' is scored the test to jam is made
Between 111km and 120km my chance to 'hit' drop (linearly) from 50% to 0% - assuming a 'hit' is scored the test to jam is made
at 121km I will never score a hit (I'm not 100% sure if the module will even activate in this instance)
5150
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Reply #33 on: January 22, 2008, 03:33:51 AM

a new dice roll will be needed at the start of the next cycle

This  smiley
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 03:38:09 AM by 5150 »
Falconeer
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Reply #34 on: January 22, 2008, 05:08:20 AM

Thanks so much everyone. This really helped.
And I am slowly getting there...  :)

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