Join your fellow F13ers as militant deep-space warriors!

[Nightspawn]

well we didnt pay to reup the war with aces. guess we learned a leason, research the corp we wardec. where we dont get our ass's kicked. we look like a bunch of prepie kids with bought charactors.

[Merusk]

 

[bhodi]

Who's "we" kemosabe? You're in AEO.

Dumbass.

Edit: Did that come from "The Eve insults for dummies," page 60? Maybe you neglected to notice that 90% of us flew frigates and cruisers with characters that are under 2 months old.

That we apparently bought.

You, on the other hand, called 6 of your buddies on aim to log on whenever you saw us in local.

[cevik]

Well Endie, your post was good, so I downloaded the eve client and logged into the game.  I went through the tutorial (painful) joined the f13 channel (quiet) hit autopilot to Eram VIII Moon 13 and asked the f13 channel what I should train (you know, to help with your p versus p) and got told to go read the forums and leave everyone alone.

And thus ends my second attempt at eve!  Kudos for a good post that made it seem like it may not actually be spreadsheets in space, too bad that's all eve is!

[tazelbain]

Your points are valid but don't be chased off because some lurker gives you lip.

[cevik]

Your points are valid but don't be chased off because some lurker gives you lip.

For the record, I just like bitching about eve, it's almost like a hobby! :)

[Falconeer]

and got told to go read the forums and leave everyone alone.

I can give you the "quiet", but such an answer sounds unreal to me. Everyone is happy to help there, and some even took time to mail me tips and explanations about things I asked in chat while they were AFK.
Can't believe someone told you that but if he did I would like to know what was going on in that angry ugly brain.

[tazelbain]

I was present and my link is the person who did it.  I, on the other hand, did give him some hints on what to train next.

[Endie]

well we didnt pay to reup the war with aces. guess we learned a leason, research the corp we wardec. where we dont get our ass's kicked. we look like a bunch of prepie kids with bought charactors.

(a) we came up just short of even - 46% I think on the KB though i could be a few percent wrong - against your corp which had several players with literally ten times our skillpoints.  We did this for the experience.

(b) we shut down "Ace's and 8's" for the period of the war: your players were forced to either huddle on the undock or stay in the station, while our players roamed around doing whatever they fancied. On the ultra-rare occasions that someone tried to mine or mission they had us on them and either logged, docked or got blown up.  Sometimes we would log into your base station and wander away, finding on our return, to our amusement, that three or four of your oldest characters had then camped them into that station for hours.

(c) half your members left

(d) if it seemed the profitable thing to do we would continue to grief by keeping the war going longer

(e) if you think we are finished with you you are making a very serious mistake.  Don't make it worse on yourself by giving us lip, sunshine, not least because some of us will be finished with our business in Delve at some point this year.  I, for one, would be delighted to put my two recon-capable pilots into a corp of their own and wardec you for a few months, practising for a spell in Goon Blackops.  I said we did this for the experience: don't go making it about a personal grudge.  Kapisch?

[cevik]

I was present and my link is the person who did it.  I, on the other hand, did give him some hints on what to train next.

Thanks for the help tazelbain, if it helps any I felt really guilty after I logged off last night for bitching about the hostility without mentioning that you were very helpful.  I'm just getting old and cranky.  Do you know how sad that makes me? :(

Now if I could just get all these damn kids off my lawn.

[bhodi]

Thanks for the help tazelbain, if it helps any I felt really guilty after I logged off last night for bitching about the hostility without mentioning that you were very helpful.  I'm just getting old and cranky.  Do you know how sad that makes me? :(

Now if I could just get all these damn kids off my lawn.

So, back to PotBS for you?

Oh, and where did you go for 6 months? You just kind of vanished... and then came back. You pulled a double cheddar!

[cevik]

So, back to PotBS for you?

I'll prolly try eve out a little more, it's so intriguing to the min/maxer in me, but then it's just so hard to figure out where to start.. :)

Oh, and where did you go for 6 months? You just kind of vanished... and then came back. You pulled a double cheddar!

I started a new company and it required a lot of focus for the past year.  I've been lurking just haven't had the energy to post much.

[bhodi]

Well, glad to have you back :)

I'll prolly try eve out a little more, it's so intriguing to the min/maxer in me, but then it's just so hard to figure out where to start.. :)

Just use the goonfleet recommended skill training guide, get into a tackler, and wait for next saturday for the big fleet op where we will go en-masse into the lion's den. There's so much there and I do so love min-maxing, which is how the game hooked me good.

[Falconeer]

Oh yes yes. Seriously. Every one of you lurkers unsure about EVE and wondering if this can be any fun (because spreadhseet in space balah balah), just sign up for the free trial, start skilling (no need to play, just log in to keep on skilling) according to the above mentioned plan and then show up on Saturday, February 9th.
Join us in frigate mayhem and THEN decide if the game is any good or not. This way is free and you have a chance to see what EVE really can be about. Not spreadsheeting, not marketing, not watching a screensaver. Only good ole massive PvP.

EDIT: Saturday, not Sunday! egh 

[Endie]

...show up on Sunday, February 9th.
Join us in frigate mayhem and THEN decide if the game is any good or not.

Saturday 9th!

Although i would heartily recommend this course of action, it should be fun.

[Murgos]

but then it's just so hard to figure out where to start.. :)

I whined a bit about being broke in the channel and Slayer dropped 10 mil in my account.  I then bought every skill book I could train that wasn't priced in the stratosphere and trained them all up at least to level 1.  It's been helpful as far as narrowing down what else to train and what to train higher because now the list doesn't seem so daunting.

[Reg]

Remember to go through the skill books in the market again after you've trained a while and pick up the skills that you didn't have the prerequisites for the first time you checked.

[Akkori]

And EveMon is your friend! You can spend literally an hour at a time working through skills and items, and setting up a skill plan to follow.

[Lantien]

Cevik!  It's Theta!  Dude!  Long time no see!  Please to be not talking about how interesting EVE is.  Everytime I've read something and gotten interested in EVE, I read something else a few pages later that demotivates me.  I want to continue this system so I'm not spending money.

[Zetleft]

I'm just training away since I havent made the trek to your side of the world yet but I will be there in time for frigate gate  :P

[Hoax]

Well Endie, your post was good, so I downloaded the eve client and logged into the game.  I went through the tutorial (painful) joined the f13 channel (quiet) hit autopilot to Eram VIII Moon 13 and asked the f13 channel what I should train (you know, to help with your p versus p) and got told to go read the forums and leave everyone alone.

And thus ends my second attempt at eve!  Kudos for a good post that made it seem like it may not actually be spreadsheets in space, too bad that's all eve is!

Yeah if you still feel like your up against the cliff that is the eve newbie experience feel free to just make a new thread in the sub-forum asking Q's.  What you want to figure out is:
1) skills to train, ship to go for.
2) what to fit for Saturday
3) how you want to make $$$ for recreational activities

Start there.  Of course to be fair, mix/max'ing usually requires some third party reading, this is no exception.  But personally I'd be happy to toss ideas out there.

Oh yes yes. Seriously. Every one of you lurkers unsure about EVE and wondering if this can be any fun (because spreadhseet in space balah balah), just sign up for the free trial, start skilling (no need to play, just log in to keep on skilling) according to the above mentioned plan and then show up on Saturday, February 9th.
Join us in frigate mayhem and THEN decide if the game is any good or not. This way is free and you have a chance to see what EVE really can be about. Not spreadsheeting, not marketing, not watching a screensaver. Only good ole massive PvP.

[cevik]

Cevik!  It's Theta!  Dude!  Long time no see!  Please to be not talking about how interesting EVE is.  Everytime I've read something and gotten interested in EVE, I read something else a few pages later that demotivates me.  I want to continue this system so I'm not spending money.

Hey Theta!  Nice to see ya still around these parts! :)

[Hoax]

A quick eve tale from last night...

So we formed an ad-hoc op with 7 people (1 battlecruiser, 1 ewar cruiser, 1 dps cruiser, 4 frigates).  We zoom around lowsec in our neck of the woods finding nobody in systems that peak at about 10 pilots.  Seems like these folk are smart enough to jump to anywhere once they see local pilots in space triple in size, funny that..

Overall it was a quite lackluster performance, with nothing happening and people asking if they could blow up cargo containers to let off steam.  I was expecting somebody to jump to a moon and get fried for kicks (players can build outposts at moons in lowsec space) to relieve the monotony.

Then at the same time in the very last system before we return to hisec we run into a Dominix sitting at the gate we were going to leave through.  Now lucky for us, because the sentry guns at gates usually dont take nicely to people shooting innocents in front of them, this guy was a pirate to the bone, -9 security standing 3.5million bounty placed by other players sort of unsavory character.  So our intrepid scout/fleet commander/cake avatar/blue name extraordinaire Bhodi, who is flying our electronic warfare blackbird locks on to him and shuts him down.  Telling us on Ventrillo to wake up and come help.

I will now demonstrate how anyone who tells you that eve pvp has nothing to do with player skill is a dirty fucking liar & all the people who claim to hate twitch and want more "strategic" pvp who haven't tried eve, well you should try it, mistakes will be underlined:

I warp to 0 to the gate Bhodi is at, landing near enough to the fight, I know that a Dominix is a drone boat but I dont really know how ewar works I figure that for sure his guns can't shoot Bhodi but I have no idea if drones can go after him or not.  So I start telling everyone in a frigate to go after the drones.  Knowing that they are the bulk of the Dom's firepower and that his turrets are shut down by Bhodi's jamming.  I target 3 drones and the Dom, put a point on the Battleship (meaning he can't warp away) and set my Punisher to orbit the closest drone while activating my pulse lasers.

Now I'm fixated on watching the drone's hp fall away, I switch my frequency crystals to short range once I get in close, I'm grinning as the drone goes into structure.  Fucking oblivious to what is happening in the battle at large.  What has happened is Bhodi has lost the jam, the drones have swarmed him and blown his Blackbird to smithereens, somewhere else our Rupture (dps cruiser) has been eaten or is about to be as well.  Meanwhile our frigates have done their job and half of his expensive tech2 drones are dying or dead.  He recalls them to his drone by.  I'm still not taking all this in, to my credit this all happens in under 2 minutes of real time.  It is not until my frigate, following the drone, practically runs into the battleship that I realize something has gone really fucking wrong.  I activate my micro warpdrive and start trying to haul ass away and frantically search for something to warp to (if you do anything in eve while panic'd you will do it wrong and most likely die) while the Dom turns its attention on me and suddenly heavy nosferatu is eating up my capacitor.  I hit warp, but while my ship tries to align, it slows, his guns manage to actually hit me and I go boom.  I might have been better off just flying the fuck away from him, hoping my speed would see me clear then making the jump instead of trying to make it in his shadow.

So yeah, pvp in eve is hard, anyone who says otherwise is either fighting in BS sniper fleets or just shooting POS's in 0.0.  The information overload the overview/module/target/gang management is critical and you need to make calm informed choices under very real time pressure.  Its also pretty fun in a fight like this where we did stand a chance of victory.  Some fights not so much because you are clearly outclasses (gatecamping or getting straight up ganked) but those situations will often come about because your head wasn't in the game so you can't be too upset.

/endstory

tl;dr version:  We were bored, we went for pewpew, we found some, pvp in eve takes lots of player skill, you should try it if it sounds fun.

[Slayerik]

The great part about eve PVP is that you learned some shit there. After a couple years of PVPing im STILL LEARNING. I bet next time Hoax will try to be flying towards a planet or asteroid belt (known as aligning) the next time shit gets hairy. He probably learned that Domi's are tough SOBs with massive drone bays. It was probably the worst BS you guys could have ran into. Probably had T2 Ogres rippin ya up like shreds.

Every fight in Eve is different. Gang match ups are constantly changing. You can choose how you want to contribute, without re-rolling a guy. This is especially true after a few months more of training, but it still is true to an extent.

In this game you can win outnumbered. You can win outgunned. You have to execute, focus fire, use ECM to knock dangerous opponents out of the fight until they are managable. Sometimes you will be fighting enemies equipped for speed. Other times they will have ECM. Sometimes they will have pure DPS. Other times they will all be repairing each other in a 'spider tank'. Some fights will be solo. Some fights you will tackle a battleship that is fighting NPCs, and test your conjones to try to take em down in your smaller battlecruiser. Some fights you wont have a chance in hell. Other fights you will have a chance in hell, and that chance is just enough along with some tricky flying or a well setup gang.

PVP in Eve can sometimes be hard to find (at least, good/even fights). But there is absolutely no substitute for the rush it proves me to this day...it is a test of your abilities and knowledge in the game, you must learn every ship and what it can do eventually, if you want to be a true PVPer. It has taken me a long time and many fights, but I feel I am a pretty good Eve PVPer. It really is a great game, it may not be action packed all the time, but the time invested in fitting a ship, cost it took to buy the ship, cost of your clone upon death, all add up to the rush. You get blown up, you are out of the fight...period. Death matters to your wallet and the fight. The nice part is, you can pvp in a ship that would cost less than one module I fit on my command ship. Or  a cruiser for the cost of one of my rigs :)

[Slayerik]

Oh yeah, a word to the wise and the absolute best PVP advice you will ever get:

If you are trying to warp out, turn off your Microwarpdrive. :) I've died more times like that than I care to remember.

[Morat20]

You know, I realize I have no clue how drones work under those circumstances. I know that if the Dominux is jammed, he can't order his drones to attack. But at least with NPCs, they'll often attack on their own -- I have no idea who they choose or why. (Possibly it's just a simple "Who the hell just shot me? SHoot him!" thing) -- but then again, when they do that they tend to be attacking targets I have locked and that are firing at me.

So don't bother shooting a Domi's drones -- he's got more, and he'll just recall and release (forcing you to relock them) everytime you start hitting on them.

[ajax34i]

I don't know what the range of a heavy NOS is.  And, you guys went up against a battleship, and you were flying 4 frigates and 3 cruisers...  tought fight, pretty much if the jamming fails, you're done for, would be what I would expect.   Because the battleship can focus fire and take out your EWAR and DPS very fast.

Were you eating into his tank at all?

[bhodi]

I don't know what the range of a heavy NOS is.  And, you guys went up against a battleship, and you were flying 4 frigates and 3 cruisers...  tought fight, pretty much if the jamming fails, you're done for, would be what I would expect.   Because the battleship can focus fire and take out your EWAR and DPS very fast.

Were you eating into his tank at all?

25km.

Yes, it was a tough fight, but we had nothing better to do ;)

No, we weren't eating his tank.

[Grand Design]

It is not until my frigate, following the drone, practically runs into the battleship that I realize something has gone really fucking wrong.

That's hilarious.  Great story. 

I should record this Saturday's expedition to capture moments like this.

[Merusk]

I don't know what the range of a heavy NOS is.  And, you guys went up against a battleship, and you were flying 4 frigates and 3 cruisers...  tought fight, pretty much if the jamming fails, you're done for, would be what I would expect.   Because the battleship can focus fire and take out your EWAR and DPS very fast.

Were you eating into his tank at all?

25km.

Yes, it was a tough fight, but we had nothing better to do ;)

No, we weren't eating his tank.

Hey now. I was eating his tank just fine.. then I  asploded.  Shields were gone, and I think there were 3-5 ticks off his armor when I went pop.

[Viin]

He was down to 4/5ths armor when he started to repair faster than I could damage him, after engaging him after you guys assploded.

[Hoax]

With the Thorax & Stabber on him we might have broken his tank though I suspect it would have been a long interesting and difficult fight (I'm still not 100% certain I know what drones can or can't do versus ecm) the Dom is a nasty armor tanker and I know he had at least one heavy nos to pull more cap down with.  Either way though we were looking for a fight so finding a pirate Dom at the gate was a pretty lucky thing.  Goes to show you can't ever just go to sleep on eve in lowsec which I think we were all guilty of doing.  The response to Bhodi's call was pretty slow even with the long distances in the system.

[Falconeer]

I remember back in 2002 when me and some friends were waiting for EVE drooling on our keyboards and worshipping every single bits of news we could get about it, one day while looking for info on combat (because we and many other didn't have a clue about how it was supposed to work) I stumbled on a comment which was like this:

"EVE's combat will be much more like Magic the Gathering than Tie Fighter or Wing Commander. It will be all about strategy, customization and countering"

That shocked me, as I was definitely waiting for twitch massive combat, but what's not to like in Strategy, Customization and Countering if done the right way?

Well, you may not be into M:tG but in so many ways EVE is a miracle of a game, if nothing else because you can play the most stylish card game ever, without having to pay for booster packs, and you got to do it online with friends and while smelling adrenaline and sipping bile. Glorious.

[Venkman]

So I'm finally getting back to normal gaming-time wise and I've been considering this particular venture for a bit. I think I left off at Cyclone level with a bunch of Rifters in various ports, and about 25mil ISK, having lost most of the rest of my assets to an old enemy when I was trying to haul out into 1.0 space.

I'll grab the client probably today get in, join the F13 channel (again) and head over to Eram (assuming you're still there). I think I dropped from my prior Corp already so I shouldn't be carrying any active wardecs. And if I didn't drop and we're still at war, I'll drop from the corp and wait until tomorrow to play (think it's 24 hours).

[Viin]

We're just starting a war, but doesn't kick in until tomorrow. It's also only against a 10 char corp.

Ask in F13 chat where our main office is.