Goth Skaters Attack SUV

[Sky]

Or just put vitamin pills in his poop!

[Jimbo]

I can't believe you all like the FJ over the jeep 

But the FJ only has a hard top and comes with IFS (I luv the bullshit Toyota says on the website about IFS), and with more poking around trying to build and price a FJ vs 4door Wrangler Rubicon, it gets frustrating.

FJ:
No locking front axle
no skid plates standard (can be added)
no performance shocks (can be added)

comes to about $29,728

4 door Jeep Wrangler Unlimited:
Has a live axle, skid plates, but doesn't come with a hard top, so had to get the dual top group.

comes to about $32,000

Neither came set up for trailer towing and had to add those packages in.

The Toyota has the benefit of being a Toyota, you know that fucker ain't gonna break down.  Jeep's can be hit or miss, you might get the one that you can use and abuse and never lets you down, or you can get the psycho one that decides to shut off for no reason in the weirdest of places.  I was told that the FJ and Wranglers are still selling like crazy, but that the rest of the SUV's and trucks are taking a beating now.

[Sky]

I set up a decent Rubicon for just over $32000, the FJ is building out at just over $34000. On the one hand, being able to take off the roof of the Jeep would be nice for hauling larger stuff (tv, heh). But other than the suspension differences you note, CR seems to heavily favor the FJ. Also might get some favoritism in pricing since the fiancee also drives a Toyota and gets it serviced regularly at the dealership.

[SnakeCharmer]

If you plan on going off road with regularity, get the Jeep.  You can't beat Jeep's four wheel drive systems and live axles for strength.  Very cheap to mod the hell out of them as well.  Easy to work on if you break something.

If you plan on keep it out of the mud, go with the FJ.  Really hard to beat a Toyota.

Depreciation is a toss up.  Jeeps (the ones that you're looking at) don't drop their value.

See if you can find one used.  Let someone else take the hit on the initial 'drive off the lot' depreciation.

[Jimbo]

CR has hated jeep and suzuki, I don't trust them as a review (except for the maintenance records review) source.

IFS or swing axles are either a love or hate relationship.  I hate them with a passion, but that is because I want to tinker, I want to mess with the suspension and all the other parts of my truck/jeep, so a straight axle is going to be a lot simpler, stronger, and fixable, than a swing axle.  Of course I actually get out in the mud and use my transfercase, so I'm down in that 4%.  IFS or the swing axle, allows for better ride, so if you like the pavement or desert stuff, it would be pretty nice, oh it sucks for maintenance and doing modifications.  Solid axles allow for more traction (when one wheel goes up, the other goes down, creating more traction), are easier to fix, build up, and pretty much great if you have to get off the pavement.  No matter how much schooling I get, the redneck comes out and when I see a 4x4 I say, "Dude! Wait till we get a lift kit and some big ass tires on it!"  Hence my love for easy to fix and lift vehicles.  If you got a lot of mud, snow, rock, or running the beach, it might matter and grab a Jeep, but if you want reliability, don't care about the soft top, and don't plan on tinkering, then go for the FJ.

Really both are good vehicles, the other suv's don't even come close now.  A really good steal would be to get a jeep Cherokee (XJ) from 2000 or 2001 with the I6 and 5 speed (make sure it is the NV3500).  Those haven't been beat to death as most were grocery getter's for mothers :D and still have a ton of life left in them and a ton of aftermarket parts.

[Simond]

The FJ is that retro-styled thing that's only sold in the US, right?
Putting on my Motor Industry hat: Buy a real Landcruiser second-hand (or third-hand, or whatever). It'll do anything you ask of a Jeep but will go on forever.

[Sky]

Most of my wish for a Jeep/FJ/whatever comes from owning a Cherokee back in the 90s. That thing was a beast in the snow, loved it. I'm not going to do 'off-roading' per se, as in getting the guys together and moshing the mud bowl (which we used to do in our station wagons as kids :P). But we do like to hike, so solid off-road is nice to have, and in the snow that shit is nirvana. I wouldn't be getting a soft-top, not even a consideration.

Right now I'm doing background checks on Consumer Reports and Consumer Guide. Having the best suspension for mudding or rockcrawling isn't quite as important as the overall performance of the vehicle, which is what they're looking at. Safety angles, acceleration, yada. They do mention that off-road-centric people should get them and highlight that part of the performance.

The lead contender at the moment is actually the 4wd v6 sport suspension Rav4, which is coming in $4-6k cheaper, though with huge sacrifices in flexibility. On the upside, it'd fit in my garage, so I wouldn't have to move :P (The FJ or Rubicon would fit in the garage, I'd just have to 3pt turn it in from the alley) It's also more agile on the road, which would be nice for vacation driving.

I've also considered the used angle, especially the old Cherokee. Not sure I want to get into another older vehicle right now, though the thought of having someone else eat the massive depreciation of the first five years is tempting. The single biggest problem in the entire situation is that I want to buy a house and one of the worst things you can do just before getting a mortgage is buy a new vehicle if you're not already carrying that debt load (I've owned my truck for seven years without payments). I'm glad to have the freedom to have choices, but it seems illusory when my hands are tied!

[SnakeCharmer]

By the house, then shop for a vehicle?

I did a quick autotrader search for Jeep Grand Cherokees under 20K.  Found 143 vehicles within 25 miles of my location, with quite a few only a couple years old.

Really good vehicle.  I put 100k hard miles on one (4x4 Laredo with the 4.0 inline 6), with very few problems.

[rattran]

I love some older models of vehicles, but buying someone else's wear and tear always has been a problem. People drive for shit, and used manuals always seem to have clutch/transmission issues.

Plus, safety was actually a concern for me after seeing a friend get bashed to hell in his Suzuki last year. crumple zones, airbags, active restraint, etc. are kinda nice to have after years of owning something with belts alone.

[Sky]

By the house, then shop for a vehicle?

Need a vehicle. Truck is on its last legs.

I'm with Rattran on used vehicles. New trucks are FUCKING EXPENSIVE, though. I want to go on a vengeance spree on all these assholes burying themselves in credit to buy shit they can't afford so it jacks up prices MRJNjbkhbhajbrghveqar434 (and ARMs)

[Sky]

Test drove the FJ, nice ride. Planning on buying it.

Won't fit in my garage. Shitty old frankengarage that has been added onto (single stall > double stall > car port > awning). Going to have to knock a couple inches off the moulding/entry and about five inches off the crappy awning. Maybe I'll push for the awning to go away.

Times like this it's nice to have my landlord by the nuts, he really doesn't want to lose me as a tenant...problem is he and his father take forever to do a halfass job. I'm leaning toward taking a sawzall to the whole thing and cleaning it up after.

[SnakeCharmer]

How much does the FJ weigh?  If over 6,000 lbs you can get a pretty significant tax write off if you can prove you use it for business purposes.

[rattran]

4290lbs curb weight (4wd)

I was out playing with mine in an unplowed parking lot yesterday. The vsc / active traction control is too good, I couldn't get any fun slides or spins going. It's hard even to get it to fishtail.

[Sky]

Sales guy said there is a way to disable it, I said the same thing in my test drive. I use slides as a normal part of winter driving, sometimes it's the best way to control things in the snow. I'll try to get him to show me how or at least call him on BS tomorrow night.

Current plan is to take the sawzall to the entire awning piece, should be doable, but the lintel/top moulding/whatever (the garage door opening height) is going to be a stone cold bitch to change.

[SnakeCharmer]

There wasn't an immediately obvious traction control button?  Odd.  I'm guessing it's probably near the 4 wheel drive mode selector or on the dash to the right of the steering wheel.  Hell, if you're in mud, you need some wheelspin to clear the cleats and knobbies of the tires.

[rattran]

Locking the rear diff turns it off. Still not easy to slide though. On the plus side, I pulled a gmc 2wd truck out of a ditch. Then saw the plow on the front 

[Sky]

Eh, won't fit in the garage. Looks like I have to fix up my shittty old beater for another couple years. I'm depressed. I hate my ghetto apartment.

[Jimbo]

The FJ is that retro-styled thing that's only sold in the US, right?
Putting on my Motor Industry hat: Buy a real Landcruiser second-hand (or third-hand, or whatever). It'll do anything you ask of a Jeep but will go on forever.

1984 is when Toyota killed the FJ-40 (1960-1984), that was the jeep version from Toyota.
FJ-55 was the 4 door 4x4 that lasted from 1972-1980.
FJ-60 replaced the FJ-55 and had a length from 1980-1990.
Toyota trucks and 4Runners up to 1985 (1986 has that damned IFS again!) were stylish, practical, and great trucks!  North America should have gotten the hilux with the 4 doors way sooner...

I love those vehicles too, but it all comes back to Jeep.  Everyone stoped playing in the dirt except jeep. 

BTW, you don't see companies taking solid axles and making them swing axles, you see companies taking IFS and making them solid.

edit:
OMG! Sky you should get this, toyota truck  I'm a sucker for old iron...

[Sky]

Last thing I want is another pick'em up truck. If only this wasn't in CA!