Goth Skaters Attack SUV

[Roac]

Yeah, I know. I was arguing your side. See, you were calling him a hypocrite for criticizing YOUR impact on the enviroment when he's got to be just as bad -- or at least not PERFECT. There's more he can be doing, for sure!

It's a really tired old dodge, very lazy. But it sure makes you feel nice and good to use it, doesn't it? Hell, I didn't get involved in the dick waving "Who drives what" conversation 'cause I don't care, but that particular little response is just so smugly wrong I had to say something.

Just look at how easily that logic applies. Say I'm smoking two packs a day. My brother comes up to me and says "Morat, you're going to fucking kill yourself you know. That shit causes cancer". And I look at him and say "Hey, fucker, you're not wearing sunscreen. Don't lecture me about cancer, when you're blatantly standing outside without sunscreen!".

Tu quoque. 

He's wrong if his intent is to say his rather excessive use of gas is ok.  He's right if his intent is to point out that in the overall scheme of things, he may not be an especially bad participant; to know that you'd have to know his overall impact relative to yours (or whomever else), which would mean knowing all of the consumer habbits of everyone you'd like to compare.  Smug asshattery is picking one thing to heckle, and placing that above everything else. 

In contrast you'd have to look at all consumerism and consider how much stuff gets imported and transported - because that burns gas too.  You'd have to look at where people live, because that affects things like environmental impact; suburban sprawl cuts down ecosystems, creates less efficient resource distribution (trash pickup, mail, drive to work, cost to ship to retail stores, cost to drive to those stores to buy things), hurts the ability of mass transit (no longer efficient), and so forth.  You'd have to look at electricity consumtion.  You'd have to look at any luxury spending, because that's money that could be put toward helping the environment, healthcare, poverty, whatever.

And anyway, you're not pointing at him and telling him to quit smoking because you care about his health.  You're trying to riddicule him for internet oneupmanship.  He probably is wasting way more gas than he needs, but if your goal was really to help environmental issues, you're probably going to get a lot farther by fixing shit in your own home than you will making fun of people on the internet.

[Tebonas]

You can't do both?

[Simond]

I'm going to work out a method to use internet drama & flame wars as a power source and solve the energy crisis in one fell swoop. 

[Roac]

You can't do both?

Both of what?  There's hundreds of things you can do to improve multiple aspects of society.  Vehicle choice is just one of them. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Heh, Snakecharmer is such a fucking cliche.

Heh. 

Yanno, if I was unhappy with myself or my life, or really worried what 'Anonymous Internet Angst-ridden Insult Guy #33498179387419872341' thinks of me, I might be offended. 

[Sky]

You know. Fuck this burden on the citizenry bullshit. Fuck Al Gore.

You get corporate waste and pollution under control and we can talk about it. Until then, you're just jacking yourself off to feel like you're making a difference. And where does it end? Do we all hold hands and live in caves, some unsustainable and unrealistic hippy commune paradise? Shut off your computer and unplug your lights, you planet vampire!

I support recycling and alternative energy and all that jazz, but because I want our society to function better and improve, not because I think I'm saving the planet. The planet will be just fine...humans are fucked, though (to paraphrase the Almighty Carlin).

[Simond]

Actually...recycling isn't all that environmentally friendly. Well, certain parts of it anyway - mainly paper. It'd be better on the whole if new paper was milled from sustainable forests instead.

[Abagadro]

Heh, Snakecharmer is such a fucking cliche.

Heh. 

Yanno, if I was unhappy with myself or my life, or really worried what 'Anonymous Internet Angst-ridden Insult Guy #33498179387419872341' thinks of me, I might be offended. 

Who said I was trying to insult you? I just find it funny. Revel in your clicheness.

EDIT: Oh, and you obviously do care or you wouldn't spend so much effort in self-justification.

[Sky]

It'd be better on the whole if new paper was milled from sustainable forests instead.

Forests of marijuana. Trees are so slow.

[JoeTF]

Yeah, recycling might not be most energy efficient and all, unless they put garbage dump near your city/home/forest.

Also, all gas issues in US could be solved by applying proper, EU style(100-150%) fuel tax. You could finance your social security from it, or give everyone free PS3, or something:)

Besides that, I don't really get SUVs myself. They suck at speed, acceleration, mileage, parking, carrying capacity(compared to spacious cars), offroading, safety and handling. Wouldn't it be better to get two good cars instead of one shitty one?

[Strazos]

What do you mean they suck at offroading? Besides proper Trucks, they're the only things going offroad, usually.

[lamaros]

What do you mean they suck at offroading? Besides proper Trucks, they're the only things going offroad, usually.

SUV is not a proper 4WD in most cases.

[Strazos]

What do you mean? They don't have the clearance, wheels, or they don't have actual 4WD?

I mean, who the hell buys an SUV that cannot even go offroad if need be? Or that cannot properly drive in the snow?


Actually, reminds me of a guy who had a nice Dodge Ram once. spent all kinds of money on the wheels....after skimping and not getting 4WD. He amused us during a blizzard once, desperately trying to go around a corner, and failing because only one tire was spinning.

[Morat20]

What do you mean? They don't have the clearance, wheels, or they don't have actual 4WD?

I mean, who the hell buys an SUV that cannot even go offroad if need be? Or that cannot properly drive in the snow?

Most buyers, in fact.

Judging from the traffic patterns here, in lovely old Texas, the bulk of SUV's are driven by people who have no plans to drive their vehicle offroad. EVER. And it doesn't snow here in Houston. It occasionally floods, and I see lots of flooded out SUV's when it happens.

I wouldn't know what percentage of SUV's have 4WD, but it's not nearly all of them -- and of those that do, I'd be shocked if even a third of them were EVER in 4WD mode during the car's lifetime.

In other news, sales of Prius' were higher than Ford Explorer's last year.

[bhodi]

Fun fact about SUVs... a majority of their warranties are actually voided if you take it offroad. Basically, it's in the warranty contract that if they determine that it's been in water or mud over a certain height, generally by visual inspection and mud on the insides, you're totally fucked.

[Roac]

Fun fact about SUVs... a majority of their warranties are actually voided if you take it offroad. Basically, it's in the warranty contract that if they determine that it's been in water or mud over a certain height, generally by visual inspection and mud on the insides, you're totally fucked.

Most people get SUVs to haul shit around, not to off road.  Plus, more stylish than minivans.

[SnakeCharmer]

I wanted a minivan, to be honest.   The 2008 Grand Caravan is a sweet, sweet ride. 
But she-who-must-be-obeyed-most-of-the-time won out. 

Maybe in a couple years, when the tyke is playing baseball and all that.

[Tebonas]

Funnily enough I play GTA3 at the moment, and already then people made fun of the "We need SUVs in the city" crowd.

[DeathInABottle]

You know. Fuck this burden on the citizenry bullshit. Fuck Al Gore.

You get corporate waste and pollution under control and we can talk about it. Until then, you're just jacking yourself off to feel like you're making a difference.

QFT.  The problem's a systemic one, and switching to energy-efficient lightbulbs (or hybrid cars) isn't going to solve it.  It'll help, maybe, but it's not the answer.

As to the jacking off:

Smug Alert!

[Sky]

The SUV I want:



Since I also want to get a house, I'll probably have to pass. My truck is finally starting to fall apart and I need to figure out something quick. Don't want to buy another old junker, don't really want to lease. Can't afford to dick my credit around with a new car. Tired of exploring possibilities and ending up back at square one every damned time, circular thinking ftl.

[rattran]

The SUV I want:



Since I also want to get a house, I'll probably have to pass. My truck is finally starting to fall apart and I need to figure out something quick. Don't want to buy another old junker, don't really want to lease. Can't afford to dick my credit around with a new car. Tired of exploring possibilities and ending up back at square one every damned time, circular thinking ftl.

I have one of those, just the 2008 sand color. It's great fun to drive, does off-road stuff, rides well on snow/ice, I can haul the 2500lbs of stock I need for work behind it, and fit all my stuff (clothes computer etc) inside. It's better mileage than my old vehicle (an '89) and lower emissions. Yet I get shit from my 'environmentally conscious' friends, who all seem to have a minivan and a small car.

[Morat20]

Most people get SUVs to haul shit around, not to off road.  Plus, more stylish than minivans.

Not here in Texas they don't, unless by "haul shit around" you mean "Haul themselves around".

Of course, we not only have a shit-ton of SUV's that are only ever driven by one person and never have anything bulkier than a few sacks of groceries running around, but we ALSO seem to have 95% of the world's supply of F150s and at least 80% of any other sort of truck.

A ton of them without a single scratch mark on their pain, a surprising number with double rear wheels (and no signs of ever having a load that might need it).

Most people get SUV's so they can "see better" -- mostly because the other SUV's are fucking blocking their LOS. They feel safer up high. It's not true -- they're probably less at risk, finally, from a collision with another car (that wasn't true for the first 5 to 10 years of SUV's -- their crash ratings were for shit) but they're at far more risk for collision with a solid object -- all that extra mass.

[DarkDryad]

Come talk to us when oil hits $150 a barrel.

good paying jobs with disposable income for teh win!!

[WayAbvPar]

Come talk to us when oil hits $150 a barrel.

good paying jobs with disposable income for teh win!!

Is your head buried in the sand, or in your ass? 

Nothing like using all your disposable income to drive around a giant penis surrogate. Enjoy it, I guess. 

[Polysorbate80]

Fun fact about SUVs... a majority of their warranties are actually voided if you take it offroad. Basically, it's in the warranty contract that if they determine that it's been in water or mud over a certain height, generally by visual inspection and mud on the insides, you're totally fucked.

That would be to weed out the dipshits who do shit like get drunk, go muddin', and get their rig broken down in mud deeper than their tires, and then try to clean it up and file a claim pretending otherwise.  Seen it happen.

[SnakeCharmer]

That's not quite true.  If any dealer were to refuse the warranty claim, it's possible they could get sued or more pointedly the manufacturer could get sued for false advertisement.  It would be similar to a sports car owner voiding their warranty for getting heavy on the go fast pedal.  While it could possibly initially be viewed as 'abuse', they would have a hard time justifying it.  By all means, that doesn't mean bring it in covered in mud, but it doesn't have to be spotless.  A mechanic that's even halfway awake can tell if a spotless car has been abused.  There are tell tale signs, and they take from 5 to 30 minutes to see.  Besides, a dealer is more than happy to do just about any warranty work because it's charged back to the manufacturer - it's a guaranteed sale to a customer.  The absolute best thing you can do before taking any car into a dealer before warranty work that you feel MIGHT be not covered, is to do your research.  Alldata.com is loaded with invaluable information, as well as doing a search for TSB (Technical Service Bulletins), or even just google searching it.  You can print up the manufacturers own dealer distributed TSBs and show them to an uncooperative service manager.  The Magnusun-Moss Act is a good thing to read up on as well. 

And as far as going offroad, one of the last statistics I read was that 11 percent of 4x4 or AWD vehicles ever go off the pavement.

[Endie]

And as far as going offroad, one of the last statistics I read was that 11 percent of 4x4 or AWD vehicles ever go off the pavement.

Since my other car is a convertible, the joy of having something so different with a 4x4 was too much for me to resist: within 24 hours of getting it I was sitting in the middle of a ford (as in the river sort, not the cars) going "heh this is awesome."  I just don't see how people can resist.  I was in a frozen field two days ago using the surface as a more unpredictable skid-pan.  Sometimes there is even a point...

[Llava]

I'm saving up for a coal-powered Puppy Shredder.

They're incredibly convenient.

[Sky]

Interesting. PM me, I have a puppy-powered coal mine. We could work out a deal.

[Llava]

Fantastic.  I'm all for sustainability.

[Sky]

Me too. Puppies are pretty sustainable, but when I unveil my bunny-powered strip miner, I'll be rolling in Green.

[MrHat]

My puppy eats his own poop.

That's sustainable isn't it?

[SnakeCharmer]

No.  Means he's not getting enough (or missing) nutrients in his food and is trying to get it by eating his poop. 

Basically, he's malnourished.  Get him some good kibble like Iams, Science Diet, or Eukanuba.  Cheap dog foods just aren't worth it.  They look better, smell better, poop less.

[cmlancas]

That might not be the only reason, sir. Your dog also might be eating too quickly, which also causes malnourishment.

Also, Iams, Science Diet, and Eukanuba are all shit. Try Solid Gold. It's more expensive, but totally worth it.

[Llava]

Easier to find shiny poop.